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	<title>Comments on: Niem?ɬ?ller updated</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.neptunuslex.com/2005/12/06/niemoller-updated/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2005/12/06/niemoller-updated/</link>
	<description>The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy!</description>
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		<title>By: badbob</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2005/12/06/niemoller-updated/comment-page-1/#comment-2016</link>
		<dc:creator>badbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=293#comment-2016</guid>
		<description>This poor dude is just a &quot;prop&quot; for the       (u)ACLU&#039;s agenda.

Why don&#039;t they bring &quot;suit&quot; in the world court at the Hague. Wouldn&#039;t that be more  appropriate venue for their underlying &quot;cause&quot;?

It&#039;s all about the &quot;game&quot; they play deconstructing institutions and traditions &quot;they&quot; (who are they anyways?) don&#039;t agree with. It has absolutely nothing to do with law OR principle. God forbid you apply a little commonsense or  (shudder)morality to any argument.  Why do they do it? Because they can and have...with some success I might add.

Who funds these folks? What kind of a fool would personally fund such an organization?

B2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This poor dude is just a &#8220;prop&#8221; for the       (u)ACLU&#8217;s agenda.</p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t they bring &#8220;suit&#8221; in the world court at the Hague. Wouldn&#8217;t that be more  appropriate venue for their underlying &#8220;cause&#8221;?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all about the &#8220;game&#8221; they play deconstructing institutions and traditions &#8220;they&#8221; (who are they anyways?) don&#8217;t agree with. It has absolutely nothing to do with law OR principle. God forbid you apply a little commonsense or  (shudder)morality to any argument.  Why do they do it? Because they can and have&#8230;with some success I might add.</p>
<p>Who funds these folks? What kind of a fool would personally fund such an organization?</p>
<p>B2</p>
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		<title>By: Stop The ACLU &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ACLU Sues Tenet and CIA Over Secret Prisons</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2005/12/06/niemoller-updated/comment-page-1/#comment-2011</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop The ACLU &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ACLU Sues Tenet and CIA Over Secret Prisons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=293#comment-2011</guid>
		<description>[...] Neptunus Lexus has a nice summary that would argue otherwise. For clarity?ɬ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Neptunus Lexus has a nice summary that would argue otherwise. For clarity?ɬ</p>
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		<title>By: Stop The ACLU &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ACLU Sues Tenet and CIA Over Secret Prisons</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2005/12/06/niemoller-updated/comment-page-1/#comment-408955</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop The ACLU &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ACLU Sues Tenet and CIA Over Secret Prisons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=293#comment-408955</guid>
		<description>[...] Neptunus Lexus has a nice summary that would argue otherwise. For clarityâ€™s sake, Iâ€™m not unsympathetic to the plight of a man mistaken for someone else and treated shoddily - if in fact thatâ€™s what the truth ends up being. Nor am I immune to fears that left unchecked, even the most nobly intended governmental authority might in time transform itself into a more benign form of tryanny. That it might, in other words, become what it had beheld. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Neptunus Lexus has a nice summary that would argue otherwise. For clarityâ€™s sake, Iâ€™m not unsympathetic to the plight of a man mistaken for someone else and treated shoddily &#8211; if in fact thatâ€™s what the truth ends up being. Nor am I immune to fears that left unchecked, even the most nobly intended governmental authority might in time transform itself into a more benign form of tryanny. That it might, in other words, become what it had beheld. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stop The ACLU</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2005/12/06/niemoller-updated/comment-page-1/#comment-2005</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop The ACLU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 05:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=293#comment-2005</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;ACLU Sues Tenet and CIA Over Secret Prisons&lt;/strong&gt;

	Hat tip: The Political Pitbull
	The leftwing blogs and MSM are celebrating the latest from the ACLU!  Crooks and Liars has a video
	NY Times German man sued former CIA Director George Tenet and other U.S. spy agency officials on Tuesday for wrongful i...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>ACLU Sues Tenet and CIA Over Secret Prisons</strong></p>
<p>	Hat tip: The Political Pitbull<br />
	The leftwing blogs and MSM are celebrating the latest from the ACLU!  Crooks and Liars has a video<br />
	NY Times German man sued former CIA Director George Tenet and other U.S. spy agency officials on Tuesday for wrongful i&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: lex</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2005/12/06/niemoller-updated/comment-page-1/#comment-2004</link>
		<dc:creator>lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 04:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=293#comment-2004</guid>
		<description>Ah, Eric. My online conscience. Who knows what evil lurks within my heart to which I might give free rein, if ever I thought for a moment that you were not still out there, somewhere, reading... ;-)

Seriously: This is an area full of misgivings for me, full of deepening shades of grey. I would not have it that we became indistinguishable from that which we fight against, to supplant one kind of absolutist tyranny for another. And yet...

And yet, if the federal constable has reason to believe that a foreign citizen is actively a member of a international terrorist organization in an avowed and apparent state of war with the United States and its citizens, and sees the fleeting opportunity to (arrest? kidnap?) take him into custody while in a third country, should he decline to do so, or seek permission? What if that third country has given him permission to do so? What if his naturalized country has permitted it? What if neither will admit it, for reasons of state?

Is it evil in intent to have been found wrong in fact if the constable errs in good faith? Is it evil to make a mistake, when the penalty for &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; acting can be so very severe?

These &quot;renditions&quot; are not &lt;em&gt;per se&lt;/em&gt;  extrajudicial - they are &lt;em&gt;unusual&lt;/em&gt; and therefore should be subject to greater scrutiny, I suppose. But I &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; find the implicit assumption behind the political histrionics - that America is somehow the root of all evil, rather than those who slit throats and crash airplanes into skyscrapers - deeply offensive.

Whether we leave these questions up to law enforcement tends to questions of motive, ultimately: I believe that those who we are trying to capture are trying to kill us, while those who are trying to capture them are trying to protect us.

Others may disagree, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, Eric. My online conscience. Who knows what evil lurks within my heart to which I might give free rein, if ever I thought for a moment that you were not still out there, somewhere, reading&#8230; <img src='http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Seriously: This is an area full of misgivings for me, full of deepening shades of grey. I would not have it that we became indistinguishable from that which we fight against, to supplant one kind of absolutist tyranny for another. And yet&#8230;</p>
<p>And yet, if the federal constable has reason to believe that a foreign citizen is actively a member of a international terrorist organization in an avowed and apparent state of war with the United States and its citizens, and sees the fleeting opportunity to (arrest? kidnap?) take him into custody while in a third country, should he decline to do so, or seek permission? What if that third country has given him permission to do so? What if his naturalized country has permitted it? What if neither will admit it, for reasons of state?</p>
<p>Is it evil in intent to have been found wrong in fact if the constable errs in good faith? Is it evil to make a mistake, when the penalty for <em>not</em> acting can be so very severe?</p>
<p>These &#8220;renditions&#8221; are not <em>per se</em>  extrajudicial &#8211; they are <em>unusual</em> and therefore should be subject to greater scrutiny, I suppose. But I <em>do</em> find the implicit assumption behind the political histrionics &#8211; that America is somehow the root of all evil, rather than those who slit throats and crash airplanes into skyscrapers &#8211; deeply offensive.</p>
<p>Whether we leave these questions up to law enforcement tends to questions of motive, ultimately: I believe that those who we are trying to capture are trying to kill us, while those who are trying to capture them are trying to protect us.</p>
<p>Others may disagree, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2005/12/06/niemoller-updated/comment-page-1/#comment-2001</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=293#comment-2001</guid>
		<description>So. . . just to clairify - you don&#039;t think that kidnapping people and holding them without trial, charges or representation counts is tyrannical?  

Do we really want to allow the charge of terrorism to be a blank check, as it were, for law enforcement?  Do we really want to leave use of this power up to the discretion of law enforcement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So. . . just to clairify &#8211; you don&#8217;t think that kidnapping people and holding them without trial, charges or representation counts is tyrannical?  </p>
<p>Do we really want to allow the charge of terrorism to be a blank check, as it were, for law enforcement?  Do we really want to leave use of this power up to the discretion of law enforcement?</p>
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