Appearing at a town meeting in Arlington, Virginia, with fellow Democratic Rep. James Moran, Murtha said, “A year ago, I said we can’t win this militarily, and I got all kinds of criticism.” Now, Murtha told the strongly antiwar audience, “I worry about a slow withdrawal which makes it look like there’s a victory when I think it should be a redeployment as quickly as possible and let the Iraqis handle the whole thing.”
Sometimes it’s hard to be nice. Sometimes it’s hard to avoid the impression I’ve got of a fighter who stayed in the ring for one last bout, when he maybe should have retired at the top of his game.
So I’ll be short.
Suffice it, at least, to say that the Congressman and I have different things that we worry about.
Feh.
I just had a call from HHC, Perscom, St. Louis (just a records update)… but I’ll be nice and refrain from putting in print what I think about the retired Marine Colonel.
Other than: Senator – Marines stand and fight, cowards cut and run.
Same as Kerry logic- “I voted for it, before I voted against it”
I see the event was hosted by moveon.org along with that true member of the Democratic Moonbat Association, Rep. Moran-himself a real bunge-H and Alexandria/Faifax fixture.
Murtha’s has reached new depths, maybe he can go on Jon Stewarts show, too.
Time to take the gloves off on this fool. He was a Marine once but so was Lee Harvey Oswald.
B2
The (dis)Honorable Representative (for Life) Murtha wouldn’t get invited to a Corps Birthday Party if he was the only Marine within 50 miles.
I think that misguidedly, someone persuaded John Murtha to be the political voice of the opposition. Probably because he has a safe seat, no aspirations for higher office, or some other such motivation. It allows Murtha to say what other mainstream democrats cannot say because they do not want to be tagged with the “defeatist” moniker.
The problem is that if one believes as I do, that being in Iraq and continued intervention in that hell hole is not in the best short or long term interests of the United States, his notes strike a chord. Remember William Fulbright? He was publicly excorciated too, but in the end history proved him right.
What is frustrating to see however is that Murtha and the others still have not grasped that the way to approach this thing is not to ally them selves with groups like Move-on.org or any of the other lunatics. To make their point, using Murtha as a mouthpiece, the Democrats have to get into the center and convince Americans that its time to throw the Iraqis and their useless religion into the the deep end of the pool.
Sadly, the Democrats cannot think smart about this and they will piss away this opportunity just like they have every other one they have had.
Not rational I know, but when it comes to Iraq, I’m not rational. I just want the adventure to be over with…..tomorrow.
Whoa Skippy – “Not rational I know, but when it comes to Iraq, I?ɬ
Whoa Skippy – “Not rational I know, but when it comes to Iraq, I’m not rational. I just want the adventure to be over with…..tomorrow”. That falls right in with what the svelte and lovely Zawahiri is saying – they won because we’re leaving. We know it’s a lie. But even if Murtha didn’t align himself with lunatics, he’s still wrong. And no Marine will give him respect for what he says. Not very many non-Marines do either. Time is our biggest enemy and us caving in is AQ’s biggest friend. Try reading what the milbloggers are saying before you throw in the towel. There’s a lot more good going on there than bad. Check out Bill Roggio today on ThreatsWatch.org for a compendium of analyses on just what the Sunnis are doing in Ramadi. It will surprise you – and makes Murtha look like a real chump without move-on singing dirges behind him.
Skippy,
re Fullbright-
“…but in the end history proved him right.”
I beg to differ Skippy. You need to study ‘Nam a little closer. He was excoriated,as you describe it, for about 30 days and lionized by everyone on the left for the last 35 years until his version made it to the history books first. If you could stomach the facts why don’t you ask the 25 million dead in Cambodia first…
But that’s another issue.
re- Murtha is a sorry-sad-sack of a back-bencher come to life like a George Romero Zombie with his flaming rhetoric and boneheaded proposals, all with Nancy Pelosi’s red dress in the background. A simple jerk who digs a deeper hole every day…..
Skippy-san, it must hurt riding that prickly hedge all the time, constantly getting on and getting off. Let me summarize: you detest the administration (one would think Rummy ran off w/your wife!), are diametrically opsosed to the Iraq policy and seem to think we can just turn our collective butts on the Middle East (they’re just a bunch of wogs, right?). And oh yeah, all the while you agree that the Dems are stupid too, although you agree with their sentiments (feelings?). If they would only follow the Skippy-plan, whatever that is. Is that about it?
Get on or get off brother.
B2
Will all due respect to Skippy-san…
Right on, B2!
B2,
I don’t have to get on or off.
I cannot nor will not come down on either side. I don’t have to and I don’t see the world as that black or white. Its a furry shade of grey. That’s probably why I enjoy being overseas so much and admire ex-pats. They join me in the hedge…….
There is no Skippy-plan unless you count saving as much money as I can, travelling a lot and enjoying life to fullest as a plan. I do, however get the right to comment on what I see, same as you do. I’m not a public offical and will never be one.
I don’t like the administration. Never had, never will. Don’t like Rumsfeld either because deep down his “transformation” is bad for the military and the Navy in particular.
Most of the Navy’s “realignments” have not been for the better and I’m not the only person who feels that way…… I’m a bigger is better military person all the way. Colin Powell had it right when he set forth his doctrine on use of militart force.
Can’t be a Democrat because I don’t support feminism or gay rights. Not comfortable with either side’s economics ideas, although I probably lean to social justice more than social
Darwinsim…….
I read a lot and I try to make sense of what I read. I read both left and right wing stuff. I also read a lot of history. So I guess that makes me a well read hedonist. Fine.
Change will happen in the Middle East at its own pace. We cannot focibly be the midwife to all of that. Iraq, no matter how much effort we expend is not going to be some dynamic showcase in the Middle East. Even if it were, its for the Iraqis to make not us. What does it benefit to have a democracy, if Islamic nut jobs or hardliners are the ones who win the elections (as in Egypt….). I still beleive that Iraq will go the way of Weimar Germany and eventually a strongman of some sort will take power because history abhors a vacuum.
There are a lot of people that agree with me by the way. Suspect they don’t read here much though. But where is the fun in reading only points of view that you agree with?
Proud to be independent and intend to stay that way.
I ain’t buying Skippy and I’ll tell ya why. In my book calling oneself independent and actually being independent are different things. Politically, I respect even a Moonbat more than self-described Independents like it were some kind of shining beacon not to be labeled. It my opinion it is simply being non-committal and wishy-washy. IMO, sort of like a cop-out. Independents like you will starve at a smorgesborg (sic)!
I’d rather have discourse with true lefties than hedgers. Oftentimes rational Lefties can be bludgeoned into accepting the truth and once in a while vice-versa. “Hedgers” play all sides on whim or fancy….
re- “But where is the fun in reading only points of view that you agree with?”
Cmon man, I may be bullet-headed but I ain’t that shallow!
B2
To each his own. I like the hedge.
Your comments about debating left wingers remind me of arguements with my ex-wife. She was hell bent to convert me to her way of thinking, when in reality all I wanted her to do was shut up and leave me alone.
Too bad Rumsfeld did not run off with her. Think of the money I could have saved in Alimony and other bills. He’s a rich man……….
One concept and thee words: “Civilian control of the military” and National Command Authority. We don’t have to like it, but we don’t get paid to make the decisions that Rumsfeld has to make, or share the direct responsibilty that the President has of defending the country.
This isn’t an appeal to authority, although it might sound like one. But imagine taking a four-ship down town through heavy opposition. Maybe an E-2 guy briefed the strike, and maybe you didn’t like the plan particularly.
It’s still the only plan you’ve got, and there’s only one strike lead. Wanking that you don’t like the plan once you’ve pushed off the IP won’t change anything but the morale of the strikers, and maybe reduce whatever chance of success the strike has. Might cost them their lives, who knows? Trying to change the plan from the middle once the forces are engaged is a recipe for fiasco. Sniping from the sidelines, well – let me just say that in my mind anyway, there’s little to recommend it.
Other folks may well feel differently. For them I have three more words – y’all might recognize them: Honor, Courage, Committment
I’ve never understood how being critical of a political appointee is somehow making the jump to being opposed to civilian controlof the military.
So long as folks obey the decisions of these non-elected leaders folks are quite within the bonds of Core Values, whatever that proves. In fact I would submit that speaking out when the ship of state is off course is just as in keeping with the Core Values.
What we disagree on is this, the decisions that are being made about the personnel strength, the procurment of weapons, and the direction of this military force are taking that force in a very wrong direction. There plenty of intelligent people , far smarter than me who have pointed this out. I’m just echoing their views that’s all.
Sgt. Jeff-
Congresswoman Schmidt is *my* rep… and I’m damned proud of her. Marines do NOT cut and run, which, to me, means that Murtha should turn in his “Once a Marine, always a Marine” club card.
He isn’t fit to wash the socks of today’s Marine’s. Bastard.
Skippy, I’ll just say this:
The bad guys personally don’t care if you “enjoy the hedge” or not. Fall into their hands and their beheading knife on your bare neck trumps all pretentions to a nuanced worldview. I know that sound awfully black and white, but hey, that’s just the way they are.
Yeah, you got the right to eloquently say whatever you want. Paid for in blood every day by others who don’t have the luxury of second-guessing committments in an imperfect world.
Some days I actually hope that you and the other “intelligent people” are right and there is some perfect plan or answer that just needs to be adopted. But history always says otherwise, and history is unforgiving. Its all about bloody muddling through.
Don’t underestimate the enemy or the value they place on your indulgent waffling. The single-minded willpower of the Islamists has no room for independence–yours or anyone elses.
How many lives does it take to help a “well-read hedonist” grow up?
Guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
I have to defend myself.
First, I served long and honorably so please don’t tell me I don’t know about sacrifices to keep freedom free. I’ve been in the service of Uncle Sam for over 28 years thank you very much.
You’re right, history is unforgiving which is why commitments to engage in military force have to be well thought out and properly supported. Colin Powell has has expounded on that quite eloquently. We have the Battle of Balaclava and others to show what happens when you move forward with an ill-considered plan.
What I continue to reject and will continue to reject is the notion that our elected leadership is not required to show accountability for their decisions simply because we are in a time of conflict. Its not good enough to simply wrap it up in the flag and say get on board or you are a disloyal American.
This debate is about the best way to confront these single minded Islamists ( who are neither single minded or Islamists) and whether forced midwifery really works in developing a stable productive Middle East that really wants to join the community of nations. History generally says it is not. This is an evolutionary process that will take generations…..
If by “growing up” you mean me accepting that direct intervention in Iraq is required to defeat terrorism in the Middle East, well then I guess I’ll never grow up. There’s more than one way out of the woods. Let’s take the one that looks out for American interests…and lives. That’s what those intelligent people you look down on are saying.
“Power tends to confuse itself with virtue and a great nation is particularly susceptible to the idea that its power is a sign of God’s favor, conferring upon it a special responsibility for other nations to make them richer and happier and wiser, to remake them, that is, in its own shining image. Power confuses itself with virtue and tends also to take itself for omnipotence. Once imbued with the idea of a mission, a great nation easily assumes that it has the means as well as the duty to do God’s work…..”–William Fulbright.
Criticize all you like (good thing you’re retired, eh?), but for God’s sake don’t pretend that saying “this was a shitty idea from the get go” is inherently enobling. In a democracy we live with the results – the American people chose W. and whomever he might appoint by a small margin in 2000, and by the largest ever recorded numerical popular vote in our nation’s history all the way back in 2004.
Elections have consequences. After the war is over, win or lose, the historians will look down the long lens and determine whether your cynicsm and pessimism would have served the nation and the world better than W.’s radicalism.
Not for the first time I say it (and you know how I hate it when people repeat themselves) it was the whey-faced, graybeard realists who brought us to 9/11, not the radical reformationists.
I say, “Give war a chance.”
I’m spent.
The USAF just screwed us over again on widebody movement so I will quite properly turn all of my anger and veracity over to that. (Fighting with the USAF is kind of a never ending conflict anyway…….)
You do raise an interesting point about the 2004 election. Both sides quote it. One side talks about the largest number of votes, the other talks about the margin (about 2%). I find it interesting to hear since in the end, as you point out, the only thing that matters is who won and how to get even next election.
One thing that is interesting when you look at the stats is 15,000,000 more people voted in 2004 than did in 2000, yet the magin was pretty evenly split between both sides. So at least if nothing else people are being inspired to vote. Getting them to vote correctly, well that’s in the eye of the beholder.
Gotta go call Yokota now…..Bastards!
Nancy Moran…
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