N

re- “The FACT is that 140 hours is the MINIMUM to graduate from USNA”

Point made. I didn’t know. How about let’s make the 140 HARDER then? Don’t like that? Hell it was just a suggestion.

re- “you at least acknowledge that CAPT Stratton ” Well P-600 when I MET him he was a fairly new Commander. One of my heroes. If you noticed, he was, 1., writing for an academy publication, and 2., the grads HE was writing about graduated for the most part over 40 years ago…I agree with him for that reason. I’m just not so sure today. Please prove me wrong.

re- “augmentation pain”- no pain here, just showing that things were different and even more difficult in the olden days. I won’t go into the whole reserve/regular discussion as it was 20-30 years ago, because it wouldn’t matter and nobody much cares. The playing field is level today. 30 years ago guys like me (and Stratton) had to “bigger, faster,stronger…” He even acknowledges such.

re- “..suggest that the service academies should be abolished”

Never did any such thing. I just said do a cost benefit…Think about it. Over a 100K a year, per student of taxpayer dollars is a significant cost vs. what ROTC or even cheaper OCS is. The quality from the NA should be much higher qualitatively measured. Personally, I don’t think it is nor ever really has been. It’s a club within the officer corp. Always has been. Does that piss you off? Tough shoot. All I’m saying about the academy is: “keep embarrassing the rest of us”. .

P-600- I love the USN more than the NA is all. They are two separate and distinct entities…

B2

Prowlerguy, I love you USNA guys who get your panties in a wad every time someone has the gall to suggest that perhaps there are now better (read more efficient aka more economical) ways to build Naval Officers and leaders than there were 200+ years ago when it was really needed.

So here are my questions:

1. What do we get from a Naval Academy graduate that we don’t get from an MIT or Notre Dame or U of Maryland graduate that go to AOCS after college?

2. Do USNA graduates make better leaders? Explain.

3. Do you agree with BadBob’s earlier assertion that leadership is something that can’t be taught at a school? If the answer is no, could you please tell me what classes I need to take to be a better leader?

Thanks,

Nose

PS I didn’t have a degree when I got my commission and still seemed to do OKAY. Want to comment on that also?

I also was responding to AW1 Tim because he seem to be under the impression that such topics as seamanship, navigation, and engineering are not part of the curriculum of every midshipman.

I’m glad you at least acknowledge that CAPT Stratton might be qualified to opine about the quality of USNA grads (as he was not one himself), and I only point out that his opinion of what he called BRBs was high, and some of those BRBs were the product of the major system that you seem to feel has caused the officer corps to go to hell in a handbasket. There may be many things wrong with the NA, but the course of study is NOT one of them.

I would suggest that the issues in play are part of a larger change in society, and other sources of officers are even more likely to be infected with that decay.

I also noted the big chip on your shoulder concerning augmentation. I’m sure that you are aware that in the armed forces, when one makes a commitment to the service, the service recognize that. Go DEP, pick your rate. Re-up, pick your next duty station. Volunteer for a crappy billet, get your choice next time. It’s no different here. I “augmented” at 2 for 7 night. From that moment on, I was heading for the fleet, one way or another. So I am really sorry that you had to wait a couple of years before you were regular Navy, but you got the same pay as I did, so I’m just not feeling your pain.

You’re not the first to suggest that the service academies should be abolished, nor will you be the last, I am sure. McNamara jumps into my mind as another who shared your views. So crunch the numbers. Show me that you are right. Don’t depend on your claims to the mantle of “old and salty” to convince anyone that you are correct.

re- “even ?

re- “even “English” majors graduate with a BS,”

I am well aware that an English, History or even Poly Sci majors at the academy have to meet certain pre-requisites for math (calculus+, same as Notre Dame) and even core engineering credits. That is probably why they are awarded a BS. But education majors obtain a BS also. The point of my suggestion was to try and make it more rigorous so the mids would have less free time to get drunk, not create design engineers…
If you think it is rigorous enogh that’s fine. WTFDIK.

re CDR Stratton- my neighbor in PNCLA when I went back as a LT retread. Great American.

No doubt the Naval Academy has produced “the best of the best” for a long time. I just want it to continue; because right now I am doubtful.
Institutions don’t exist because they have always been there, rather they exist because they are successful at what they do. As long as Chicken-poop reigns I’ll be a critic only because I give a hoot.

B2