Credo
"Sign on, young man, and sail with me. The stature of our homeland is no more than the measure of ourselves. Our job is to keep her free. Our will is to keep the torch of freedom burning for all. To this solemn purpose we call on the young, the brave, the strong, and the free. Heed my call, Come to the sea. Come Sail with me." -- John Paul Jones
"Pardon him, Theodotus; he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature" --George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and Cleopatra"
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."--Friedrich Nietzsche
"A kind Providence has placed in our breasts a hatred of the unjust and cruel, in order that we may preserve ourselves from cruelty and injustice. They who bear cruelty, are accomplices in it. The pretended gentleness which excludes that charitable rancour, produces an indifference which is half an approbation. They never will love where they ought to love, who do not hate where they ought to hate."--Edmund Burke
“You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”--General Sir Charles Napier
"Μολὼν λαβέ" -- Leonidas
"Blogito Ergo Sum" -- Neptunus Lex
Seem like a good bunch of guys (and girl, one of whom looked rather cute) to have a beer with…
Rap, Rock and Roll, Easy listening. Those clever VAW guys are pretty versatile………
Good looking too. Chicks dig ‘em!
Comes from a proper upbringing in a GRUMMAN aircraft.
Hey, now everyone knows what we do in the overhead waitin’ for everyone else to get aboard…can’t let all that computer power go to waste. Besides video editing we also write code for the latest Cray computers, solve problems for Lawrence-Livermoore, NASA, etc.
It passes the time…
Skip,
re “Good looking too. Chicks dig ?
Skip,
re “Good looking too. Chicks dig ‘em!”
Especially those bespectacled tube rats that inhibit the backend, eh?
On the few times I joined on a Hawkeye they’d all be looking out those winders in the back. Looked like a bunch o’mice peering out of their holes!
B2
Hmmm…..lends a whole new meaning to the phrase, courageous warriors, defending the nation.
B2 –
They looked out the winders to see if you were gonna pop like a piece of popcorn with all that radiation passing through your grape.
Lex, I was gonna correct you un-PC “Hummer Guys” and point out that there are also Hummer Girls, but I’m not sure you can say Hummer Girls.
N
Morning, Capt!
It’s 10/26 on the east coast now and SJS made reference to your predecessor, LCDR Chevalier on this historic day in 1922…How about pumping up SJS’ visitor count, and add your persepctive!
This is not OT, as SJS is a VAW guy….
Just proves that white men shouldn’t never dance on camera. Otherwise – rock on VAW-116!
That was supposed to be “…should never dance on camera…”
preview is my friend; preview is my friend
Cruise videos. Whooda thunkit. Yousta be 8mm film that we couldn’t afford to get processed.
“Meat” Guerra of (decommed) VS-35 Blue Wolves was very good with a camera. Sold vid-disks as a fund raiser for the lost Blue Wolf 704 S3B crew.
I like the medium, big time, especially with shore leave/liberty. You can show your kids and grandkids the revelry of getting hammered with your brothers/sisters.
Very, very cool. Thanks for that!
But…just askin’…what’s with the left-handed salutes one AC commander is giving out the winder?
Our tax dollars at work. Hilarious.
On the subject of USN U-Tubes, would someone be so kind as to re-post a link to the other video Lex put up awhile back? You know, the one with the, how shall I say, light-in-the-loafers crew… “Back that up – back that a$$ up.” That one. I need to send that link to my (retired) AF son-in-law.
Thanks.
I’m no E-2 pilot, but I assume probably because (1) it’s easier for the catapult officer to see on the left hand side of a darkened cockpit, and (2) it may be easier to re-set the left hand on the yoke than the right hand on the throttles.
Skip? Brian?
And Buck – I think that particular video might have raised some very heavy eyebrows, leading to a request for it to be, ah: withdrawn by the owners.
Yeah, Lex has it. Salute on the side the CAT Officer is on. If on CAT I or III that would be left hand left seat. On II and IV it is right hand, some squadrons have co-pilot do it, some have guy in left seat. Left hand is a bit goofy, but it is part so the CAT officer can see you through our gold coated bubble windows and part I really-don’t-want-to-let-go-of-the-throttles-when-the-CAT-is-about-to-fire thing.
By the way, Buck, in E-2′s guy in left seat is not necessarily Aircraft Commander. We put the guy scheduled for the trap in that seat even if they are brand new. If we did it the Air Force/P-3 (same thing) way, new guys would never get a trap.
The hardest part about becoming an insturctor in Hummers is learning to fly from the right seat! We almost never do it otherwise.
Nose
Add to Nose’s comment that for a long time pilots had an inherit distrust of the power lever lock and did not want the throttles to come rolling back on the cat shot…….especially on a hot day.
B2, moles can get laser surgery now so they don’t need the glasses to see the scope. Besides for good NFO, radar was a crutch anyway. You just felt the bogies in your karma……….
But I do have to admit I wish there had been a canopy instead of a window………..
In the video I thought I saw one guy in the left seat salute right handed as he was looking left…
Also, there’s also a cat grip for the throttles too – correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe it was instituted because someone took a cat shot and rolled the throttles to flight idle and they all went swimming.
Skippy – do you happen to know if that was 115′s bird, back in the mid-80′s? They lost one off the Midway, and the ACO didn’t make it out after they went in. When Dick Mauldin was XO/CO of 115 he used to talk about it alot.
The moles are looking out the window and either imagining No Future Outside (NF0)
Back in the day one of those moles could have been an enlisted IFT gloating about the Long Pulse Liberty he had just enjoyed while running War Hoovers around on SSSC. Or on a bad day he’d be wondering how the college grad next to him could so royally foul up and guillotine the HF2 antenna drogue accidentally. No rack time for IFT until he replaces that drogue and fills out the TFOA report. All the while he’d be wondering if the chow line would still be open after missing 2 meals already — or would it be snickers and coke from his GQ stash for supper again.
fwiw, Hummer leading the way in that last formation fly-by looks about right. Best to have your eyes out front.
Those VF radars never work anyhow do they?
Judy what?
recovering sailor,
dw
Bulls Brigade: Spring Break ’87 De Gar
Bull’s Brigade? What ho, shipmate!
And they let the Hummer lead because 1) CAG is a Hummer guy, and 2) If they put him in the back, he always gets left behind…
Shipmate Nose…..
I can accept a WHOLE lot of insults, but do not EVER use P-3 and AIR FORCE together in a sentence intimating that they are of equal footing.
I cannot, in my most PC-laced dreams, imagine any AF jock holding his guts in whilst rigging a group4 at 300 ft ASL in a sea state 4. Ain’t gonna happen.
No way any AF flyboy gets his zoom bag greasy pulling plugs and covers, loading ordnance or fuel, or doing anything other than signing for the bird and asking what runway is the active.
There’s nothing finer in this world than tracking a Type-III or Typhoon dead-to-rights, while chowing down on steak and eggs cooked in your own aircraft galley, and listening to the album du jour on the tactical circuit, all the while deciding when to light him up and announce your presence via pinging the living sh*t out of him.
AF aircrew may be darned good at the flying part, I’ll give ‘em that… but they haven’t got a clue regarding crew morale, squadron parties and being able to rock by night and deliver ordnance dead-on 18 hours later.
Those Sundowners rock, and the underlying message is the sheer intelligence of those who wear Navy blue. They know what the score is. They can let it all down one minute, and be stone-cold ordnance-deliverers the very next second. True, dyed-in-the-wool, don’t-tread-on-me American sailors. Pros who come to work prepared.
I give the AF props for flying skills and on-target delivery. They can’t hold a candle, though, to airdales in God’s finest Navy.
And what’s up with those AF silver wings? Can’t they figure out a way to keep the gold from wearing off?
Respects,
AW1 Tim
It was 115′s bird and it happened in 1985. The reason I am sure Dick Mauldin talked about it was that when you got the accident down to its root cause, the pilot had retarded the throttles back past the detent and then on a bolter could not get them over the hump in time. At the time, on the West Coast, it was a popular fiction that the power lever lock “bound” the throttles and so many pilots did not use it…….till that happened. There was a lot of discussion about it at the time.
That mishap is what led to the HEEDS bottle being standard issue for the VAW community and taking the cat shot with the ditchin hatch out. You are correct. The pilot and ACO did not survive the mishap. Lots of speculation about why the ACO did not get out. In theory he should have been the first one out.
As I understood it, the ACO was a marginal swim guy to begin with, and either (1) went back in to retrieve his raft from the seat pack (big no-no) or (2) stepped back into the aft equipment compartment to allow CICO/RO to exit so he could get the raft, got caught up in wreckage and unable to get out. Aircaft broke apart at about the propline, cockpit went deep six pretty quick. Rest was momentarily held up by the flotation effect rom the dome, dome separated and the rest went down as well. All happened at night with acompanying disorientaion.
Skippy was right about the HEEDS. Some naysayers were concerned about it possibly busting one’s face in a bailout, but I always thought it more likely I’d find myself in a ditching situation rather than a bailout. HEEDS was *my* friend. ‘course w/the exception of the Steeljaw bird in the Med, there never was a completely successful bailout from the Hummer prior (or since)…
-SJS
dw:
Re the FT issue — I was one of the last folks to be in a squadron w/fully AIC qual’d FT’s and a good one was way past his wt. in gold. AT1 Chamberlain in VAW-121 was one of our 2 FT’s and taught me everything about real world trouble-shooting airborne to the point I could check out a tool pouch from m/c and they wouldn’t grimace. If you check out my “Badgers, Buccaneers and Bears” Reflctions article you will note that mission was flown with an AIC-qual’d FT…
The downfall of the program was two-fold — expansion of the VAW mission beyond AEW/AIC/SSSC and the community manager’s decision to terminate AIC training for FTs. SOme squadrons fought it, but te heavies prevailed. At that point we needed all three folks in the back to be fully qual’d and able to make airborne decisions affecting the battle group.
-SJS
SJS/Skippy-
How come you dad-gum E-2 guys were as lost as the rest of us when it came to finding mother in Case III EMCON in spite of this Force y’all got? (Westpac only, Med guys just get a visul fix off’n all that land)
Lex,
Is this here an E-2 or a (martial music please) Hornet Blog?
B2
B2,
Ya know, ya give ‘em commissions, let them use the O’Club, treat ‘em nice at parties and next thing you know they’re taking over the place…
And there are so many of them!
Lex,
It’s just hard for some of us to imagine life without props….. It’ll be a sad day indeed when the Navy finally loses all it’s prop birds. They’re the last visible link to the old timers who started it all…
Respects,
AW1 Tim
Speaking as someone who chose to live near NAS Norfolk rather than NAS Oceana, I like props. Hawkeyes are so much quieter than Hornets. They hardly ever wake me up, even when they go directly overhead (which they do pretty much every day.)
Yeah, yeah, I know what you jet guys are thinking: that’s the sound of freedom. But the sound of freedom is loud!
(That said, I don’t have any sympathy for the people in Virginia Beach who complain about the jet noise and would like to see Oceana closed. You knew it was there when you moved in, deal with it.))
Bob, your EMCON question made me chuckle. Remember two distinct EMCON stories.
The first one involved a young mole who shall remain nameless who was running a Day (thank GOD!) CASE III practice emcon. They tracked MOM from the moment we launched and were sure they had the whole thing suitcased. Turns out we sent the whole recovery marching off in perfect 3nm seperation to a large sailboat about 150 nm west of Saratoga! Doh! The voices of the Hornet pilots (who are on their fuel planning ladder about 23 seconds after APU start) were noticeably higher on the radio that day.
The second one was west Atlantic, off the Azores. It was about 10 mins until time to pust the air wing out of marshall. We had everyone checked in, marshalled, and ready to push (Hell, I even remembered to do a time hack!) and, remembering the fun mentioned earlier called the mission commander and asked (diplomatically) if he was really really sure he knew where Mom was. “Yep, she’s 350 for 65 from us.” I put the Lages TACAN up and it was… about 350/60. I called CATCC and told them to turn on the TACAN, do the recovery themselves because we had a pressurization problem and needed to descend. We took a hit for not getting the “X” but probably not the hit we would have taken had we sent a small, slow, well spaced alpha strike to Lages.
Nose
PS Bob, we Hummer Jocks are taking over in today’s Network-Centric Forcenet Battlespace. Got us a couple of CAGs, Couple of CV/CVN skippers and even a flag or two. Good grief!
SJS,
re: demise of IFT
Yep, that’s the party line as I recall it and it had enough merit to win the day. o’ course I figure there was also a fair share of p###s envy and flight time lust by the NFOs who argued against IFTs.
I flew with more than one NFO with a lame rent-a-degree BA and a Northeast elite “officers vs men” worldview. Quite a wake up call for this small town west coast kid. I was naive enough prior to Navy service to believe egalitarianism in America was the norm. Worst prejudice I ever experienced in my life was from Ivy League or Academy “O’s” directed at me as an enlisted IFT. Some of those guys were really uncomfortable with an enlisted sitting next to them. Maybe we just turned their whole world of class-ism on it’s ear.
They certainly didn’t mind having an FT along to play Plane Captain run/plug the huffer and power units on those +100F solo launches back to the boat from De Gar.
Best day in my FT life may have been when the RAG examiner came around to find out who this FT was that had aced the unit NATOPs eval and outscored the selected NFO’s.
On the flip side the O’s that maintained the office/enlisted distinction while still giving a good FT credit where due were usually the standout players anyway. It may have been the confidence in their abilities that allowed them to grant that respect to their enlisted flightcrew. I remember the good ones with the greatest respect and goodwill to this day. Names like Soules, Fleming, Tomasoski, Simpson, Shearn, Hagler, Hehe,…)
dw
a recovering sailor: the older I get, the better I was.
DW,
Once, when I was the mighty Line Divo, I told one of my young lads that he should apply for one of the many officer Accession programs. He said “No offense, sir, but I don’t want to be an officer.”
“Why?”
“Well sir, I think some officers are assholes.”
“Well, I think some enlisted are assholes.”
I explained that Officers that are assholes are assholes because they are assholes, not necessarily because they are officers. The only difference between he and them (they and he? him and they?) was the amount of education they possessed and the amount of money they were paid.
Saw him a few years later, he was a LTjg. One of the best professional days I ever had (in my mostly unprofessional career.)
Nose
In Westpac it was awful Nose. No land for 2500 miles any direction!
Sort of pitiful to see a busted EMCON recovery ain’t it?. Imagine 10 jets folowing each other each hoping the guy ahead of him knew where the ship was! It was real bad back in the day of Gen 1 INS (if you were lucky!) and DR. You know how it is. Nobody wants to be the first to say “I’m lost. Help me”…we’d rather splash first, right?
I know the E-2 guys shall “inheirit the earth” or at least that part of it that ain’t already inhabited by Hornet dudes!
AW1 Tim,
There’s nothing wrong with props Tim just like there was nothing wrong with two wings on the 1930′s bi-planes. Just kidding. I know you’re sensitive about MMA replacing P-3.
Just imagine though, if the Hawkeye had turbofans vice T-56 (even with the fancy props). Every thousand feet gained in altitude for the missions of the E-2 = a greater radar grazing angle, hence a more effective war fighter…simple as that. 25k ain’t super effective in the ISR world uinless Skippy and SJS figure out a way to bend radar signals!
Theodore- get your earplugs! wait until you hear the new Growler! It’s louder than the Rhino!
B603- in the real olden days the C-1 variant of the Hawkeye had 2 pilots and all IFTs. Isn’t that right SJS? As a matter of fact I think there wasn’t any such thing as NFOs until at least the mid-sixties w/F-4 and P-3. Hey Sid?
B2
B2:
The smart CICO always tried to run an A-6 down the pike first, knowing full wel they were going to “cheat” with their radar. My favorite (not) was the Case III emcon we had in CVW-3, otherwise known as the Vertigo III approach. To this day I remain mistified that someone didn’t plant it on that approach.
Re manning the backend — Nope; Fudds (WF/E-1B) had 1 NFO and 1 FT in the back. ’twas so all the way back to the days of Cadillac I when *gasp* pilots were stuck in the back of a TBM-3W and tried to run relative motion intercepts off a non-ground stabilized display. Talk about colorful, that’s why there was BELLHOP. Back in the day, prior to 1965, they were called Naval Aviation Observers. IIRC, it wasn’t until the late 60′s that NFO’s were allowed to by CO’s.
- SJS
*sigh* should have been ‘be’ vice ‘by’ COs :/
That college BS is way over-rated. AW1 can flat out write! To the sports section for you.
Yup Lex, we Hummer guys are takin’ over. Got rid of the Intruders, Hoovers, and Tomcats. The Prowler’s almost gone too. Next we’re gonna get a stretched version of the Super Hornet, drop a phased-array pod underneath centerline and you’ll see 4 heads under the canopy (but we?
Yup Lex, we Hummer guys are takin’ over. Got rid of the Intruders, Hoovers, and Tomcats. The Prowler’s almost gone too. Next we’re gonna get a stretched version of the Super Hornet, drop a phased-array pod underneath centerline and you’ll see 4 heads under the canopy (but we’ll paint the aft portion of it black – we’re moles, after all). It’s nothing personal, we’re like the Borg – you will be assimilated.
On running a recovery – got my check in the block on that one in the IO, and it was as ugly as all of yours were, I’m sure. I remember going by and talking with the CATCC controllers afterwards, paying my respects. Even with all the prep we did it was still a very hard evolution to control. It didn’t seem like it would be that difficult what with all the prep we did prior to commencing, but I was sweatin’ bullets by the end of it.
Brian
Brian,
re- “drop a phased-array pod underneath centerline and you?
Brian,
re- “drop a phased-array pod underneath centerline and you’ll see 4 heads under the canopy ”
SuperHornet already beat ya to it! AESA radar and only one ‘Fo. How dat? Check out the .ppt brief done yrs ago. 2 extra NFOs cost the NAE 696k a year. x 20 years (10& annually) = BINGO- “The Rhino pays for itself” and costs less to maintain, especially if you don’t tank off’n a KC-135! Git it? OK., now you’ve really been assimilated.
Hornet Sharia. LOL. I submit!
re- “…you will be assimilated”
I’ll definetly have nightmares tonight! All those heads looking out dem winders! Like one of those horror flicks where the college students run outta gas in the backwoods of W. Virginia!
B2
Regarding the VAW-115 mishap. I was onboard Midway then and I remember that night like it happened last week. The LT who died was my neighbor up in the Alpha-O2 starboard p-way. It was August 17th, 1985 and we were stuck on Gonzo station (Remember those days?…we were always stuck on Gonzo station because we’ll NEVER take a carrier into that mud pond Persian gulf!). Anyway–the E-2 comes in, bolters and then it just settles into the water off the angle like a balsa wood plane returning to earth. Alarms go off, ship starts Williamson turn and you can see the plane floating as it passes by on the port side. You can also start to see helmets appear. After a while we realize we’re only going to have three survivors. Next we’re stuck with the fact that “hey, this plane is floating and we can’t leave it here.” Also remember in 1985 it’s still the good old US-USSR battle of titans timeframe. Finally, the fuselage breaks away and sinks which left the dome floating on the surface. Well that’s still a problem since we don’t have any way to lift it out of the water and we don’t have anywhere to put it if we do. Solution–call in the Corsairs. My squadron mate rolled in with 500 rounds of HEI and sliced the dome up like a pizza, at which point everything was sunk in about 14000 feet of water. At that point we returned to station. Later we heard the whole story about throttle behaviors and differences between East/West FRS teachings. Sad memory.