Lots, especially when it comes to naming ships. In an (offline) article in the Newport Daily News, Peter Dujardin notes the upcoming struggle over the name of the next aircraft carrier - a struggle between veterans who manned ships, and the Congressmen who appropriate for them:
NEWPORT NEWS — What has a better ring to it?
The USS America and the “America-class” of aircraft carriers? Or the USS Gerald R. Ford and the “Ford-class”?
Sen. John Warner, R-Virginia, is pushing for the latter. He wants the next generation nuclear powered carrier - now being designed at Northrop Grumman Newport News - to bear Ford’s name.
Warner, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and Carl Levin, D-Michigan, the ranking member on that panel, co-sponsored an amendment to the defense authorization act that says it’s the “sense of the Congress” that Navy Secretary Donald Winter should name the new carrier after Ford.
That idea, however, isn’t sitting right with the USS America Carrier Veterans Association, which has been fighting that notion with e-mails and phone calls to lawmakers in recent months.
The group, many of whose members served on the original carrier USS America, succeeded in watering down Warner’s and Levin’s proposal before the law’s passage: What in the original language would have been a directive to Winter to name the ship the Gerald R. Ford is now merely a strong suggestion.
“We just find it appalling that the name of the country has been pushed aside in favor of living politicians,” said Walt Waite, the association’s vice president. “The name of the country belongs on a carrier well before individuals and politicians … especially living ones. What better way to start the new class than the America?”
Politicians are fine names for smaller surface ships or submarines, Waite asserted, but not carriers. “The reaction I get from people I talk to is, ‘Why? What did he do?’ ” Waite said of Ford. “Since when do we reward (the naming of a carrier) to a mediocre politician at best?”
That Congress would call for naming the nation’s newest flattop after a one-term president who was never elected over the country’s name, Waite says, shows how far removed they are from the American people.
I’ve got nothing against Gerald Ford, and wouldn’t ever characterize the man’s career as “mediocre,” but on the other hand I believe I’ve made clear my preferences on the issue of ship naming conventions:
One of the things I liked about the older carriers were the names they carried - they evoked famous battles fought and won, or were the names of brave ships from an earlier era recycled to the new age. We had the ESSEX, YORKTOWN, INTREPID, HORNET, TICONDEROGA, LEXINGTON, BUNKER HILL, WASP, BOXER, BON HOMME RICHARD, ANTIETAM, PRINCETON, KEARSARGE, ORISKANY, SHANGRI-LA (?), TARAWA, VALLEY FORGE, and PHILLIPINE SEA. We had KITTY HAWK, CONSTELLATION and AMERICA. We had an ENTERPRISE.Then we named a ship JOHN F KENNEDY in memorial of Camelot lost, and the gates were opened to all manner of political monikers. After NIMITZ, we had EISENHOWER, VINSON, ROOSEVELT, LINCOLN, WASHINGTON, STENNIS, TRUMAN, REAGAN and finally BUSH (the elder). Politicians. I guess once the floodgates are open, everyone wants a drink. And for $5billion or so, who are the uniform guys to complain? Call it “FUSCHIA” or “PUMICE” so long as we get her on schedule and she floats. Please don’t get me wrong, I admire all (or most) of these men. Still, I sometimes envy the Royal Navy, with their INVINCIBLEs and BROADSWORDs and DEVASTATIONs. Those are names to wear on your sleeve or cap with pride.
Someday perhaps, we’ll even have a ship named the USS BILL CLINTON.
Won’t be a frigate though. A frigate only has one screw.
I always thought the best named vessels in the fleet were the PC’s and the Naval Academy yawls. The PC’s have names like Hurricane, Typhoon and Firebolt. The yawls have names like Audacious, Courageous, Invincible, and my personal favorite, Frolic.
So, I’m pretty much lining up for the America-class. Personally.
48 responses so far ↓
1
MajMike
// Oct 25, 2006 at 6:11 am
I’m voting for “America”, but only because “Big Dick Stomp Monster” would be awkward to make the painting stencils for.
2
Steve
// Oct 25, 2006 at 6:41 am
Since it’s considered bad form to run ships into other solid objects, naming a very big ship after a president not known for his grace (header off of Air Force One’s stair?) would seem to be tempting fate.
It was not for nothing that Chevy Chase frequently took a pratfall in the character of Gerald Ford.
3
Roachman
// Oct 25, 2006 at 7:05 am
I had the pleasure to serve under two old-school hard chargers, Cdr. “Iron Mike” Corgan and Cdr. “Fightin’Frank” Demassi. From Cdr. Corgan, I learned a great respect for Naval tradition and history. As a Master Helmsman, I learned from Cdr. Demassi the importance of handling a ship of the line like a true man o’ war.
So put me firmly in the camp of the “America Class”. When 6 acres of soveriegn U.S. territory, complete with air wing, comes steaming over the horizon, she should carry a name that suits both her status and her mission.
To paraphrase John Paul Jones (h/t to Iron Mike):
“Give me a fast ship, for I intend to sail in harm’s way…”
I was fortunate to serve on two ships, USS Hawes and USS Caron that were named for Medal of Honor recipients. Those are the kind men for whom we should name capital ships, if not for our great nation, or for our great victories.
4
Dedcentre
// Oct 25, 2006 at 7:12 am
Who is this Gerald Ford character again?
5
AFSister
// Oct 25, 2006 at 7:51 am
How about the “USS Kick Yo Ass”… known as the KYA Class of carriers? Of course, if the Dem’s get control of the govt again, it’ll be the “USS Clinton”, of the “We Can’t Kick Yo Ass Cuz We Ain’t Got Enough Ammo fo Dat” class.
6
Idaho Joe
// Oct 25, 2006 at 8:26 am
As for the Yawls, I’m not too sure about the NA9, Flirt or NA10, Lively, but I sure wouldn’t want to be on the NA17, Dandy. Just wouldn’t want to. Okay, I guess it would still be fun.
I’m all for the USS America Class. Nothing against Jerry, who did serve in WWII aboard the CVL USS Montery (and almost fell overboard in a storm)and had a pretty good run in Congress, but I agree that The America just sounds right at this time in history.
7
badbob
// Oct 25, 2006 at 8:30 am
USS America is great and so is USS Gerald Ford I’m neutral just so long as we keep building ‘em and building them faster. We need (15).
How about naming it the USS Fallujah to commemorate the USMC’s epic urban battle against Islamo-facist suicidal killers?
I thought there already was a USS Clinton:
http://newsbusters.org/node/8343
B2
8
Kris, in New England
// Oct 25, 2006 at 8:43 am
I can see why they want to name it the Ford - since the President’s flanking him have already had the honor, and both while alive. But at a time of war, it’s somehow unseemly to name a new ship after a politician. I like the USS America - it’s who we are.
And on a lighter note:
We’re Off to See the Wizard!
Four United States Presidents get caught up in a tornado…and off they whirled to the land of OZ.
They finally made it to the Emerald City and went to find the Great Wizard. “What brings the 4 of you before the great Wizard of Oz?”
Jimmy Carter stepped forward timidly and said: ?¢‚Ǩ?ìI’ve come for some courage.”
“No Problem!” said the Wizard. “Who’s next?”
Richard Nixon stepped forward, “Well, I think I need a heart.”
“Done!” says the Wizard. “Who comes next before the Great and Powerful Oz?”
Up stepped George W. Bush and said, “I’m told by the American people that I need a brain.”
“No problem!” said the Wizard. “Consider it done.”
Then there is a great silence in the hall. Bill Clinton is just standing there, looking around. But he doesn’t say a word. Irritated, the Wizard finally asks, “Well, what do you want?”
Bill replies, “Is Dorothy here?”
9
Buck
// Oct 25, 2006 at 8:56 am
LOL, Kris! Thanks for that!
re: Carriers. Put me down as being in the America camp.
10
CJ Martin
// Oct 25, 2006 at 9:09 am
I’m biased - I spent nearly a year of my life aboard the late great USS America. While the material condition of the ship wasn’t the greatest in the mid-80’s (She badly needed SLEP, which she never got, hence the early grave), she brought me home. I rode her in hurricanes, cursed at her JP-5 tainted showers, shed blood on her, helped fight a serious fire on the roof (H-46 crash), and went to war on her. In far away lands, she *was* home.
She was “expended” to improve the design of later carriers, thus it would only be fitting to name the next class after her.
Time to renew my USS America CVA membership…
-CJ
11
CPT J
// Oct 25, 2006 at 9:16 am
In homage to AFSister’s KYA class, I vote for:
USS TEAM AMERICA
*with the embarked US ARMY Ranger battalion accomodations/training area
*24/7 all you can eat BBQ concession
*visiting entertainer stage/speakers for headliners like Toby Keith, Chely Wright and now Beccy Cole
Everyone already knows the ship’s motto..
*Bobblehead action figures sold separately. Void where prohibited by International Law [good luck with that, EUnuchs]
12
Snake Eater
// Oct 25, 2006 at 9:31 am
My vote,if I had one, is for the “USS America”, strong , apolitical and confident. Gerald Ford, however well meaning, was an un-elected cipher as president IMO not a suitable name. As for the USS Fallujah, B-2… I see potential problems, and bar fights, with the name Fallujah and all it’s possable lewd and licentious permutations. Best
PS,Kris & AFSister this is a very serious topic, especally for the pamperd princes of the naval air service, so knock off the stand-up comic wannabe junior high school grab-ass and get with the program.
13
reddog
// Oct 25, 2006 at 10:05 am
Given the choices available, USS America, by all means.
If they want to name it after a geezer, then USS John Glenn.
Halsey would be better. Why do they keep giving him Destroyers?
I would go with USS Samuel Pierpont Langely. It’s his turn, he deserves it and it’s a brave name that’s served honorably before.
Gerald Ford? Maybe they could find a nice Federal Building in Detroit.
14
Rick
// Oct 25, 2006 at 10:32 am
I vote for USS America. I served on USS America and even with all her faults I was sad when the Navy shot her under. Just for that she deserves a class of her own.
I was in during part of Ford’s term and most of Carter’s term. It’s interesting that the Congress wants the Navy to name the next carrier after someone who was never elected to the White House either as Vice-President or President. But I could live with it if they do.
I also appreciate while other past presidents are getting carriers named after them, Carter got a submarine. A ship that sinks itself.
(Sorry Subsunk couldn’t resist…and I know, subs and targets ;-))
15
SoCal Pir8
// Oct 25, 2006 at 11:03 am
I’ve screamed every time they’ve named a CV for an individual. We need to get back to our Naval heritage. I agree that Nimitz deserves a ship named in his honor but he was a bubblehead for goodness sakes. He’s definately more deserving a sub than carter. The rest of them have enough buildings this and post offices that named after them. Leave our ships alone. We have more than enough historical and inspiring names to chose from. (See above) Even some the bases in the Sun De Gogo had such inspiring street names as A and B streets. I was glad to see the Marines use their history in naming the streets once they assumed control of Maramar. Put me in the America Class camp.
16
AFSister
// Oct 25, 2006 at 11:13 am
Awe, jeez, Snake Eater… So serious these days. My point was that no matter what we name these ships, it should be in honor of someone who deserves it and NOT just because they were president.
If I have to be serious about it though, I’m with the America class. Naming ships after presidents is ok, as long as the president did something military-worthy to earn the honor.. but an entire class? Nah.
Now, back to being light-hearted. I love the Team America idea. That’s awesome- esp. the entertainment line up!
17
FbL
// Oct 25, 2006 at 11:43 am
AFSis, I hate to try and read Snake Eater’s mind, but I suspect his comment “…a very serious topic, especally for the pamperd princes of the naval air service…” shows he’s just yanking your chain.
18 Nose // Oct 25, 2006 at 12:07 pm
The first time that I heard that 74 was to be named “John C. Stennis” my first reaction was “Who’s that?” While Stennis was a good whateverhewas and did a lot for the Navy, I’m gonna guess that less than 1% of Americans could tell you anything about him.
Tired of the Senate giving each other the reach-around. Lets get back to our roots. Personally, I’m a big fan of “Lexington” but “America” would be great too.
Other possible names (if we just wait a year or so):
USS Hillary R. Clinton (callsign “The Big Ankle”)
USS Nancy Pelosi (c/s “Partial Birth”)
USS William Jefferson (c/s “Cold Cash”)
USS Ted Kennedy (c/s “Single Malt”)
Nose (
19
Spade
// Oct 25, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Sir, I hear that what might become USS Gerald Ford (CVN-78) will actually be replacing USS Enterprise (CVN-65). The 78 will come online and the Enterprise will go away.
If that happens we will have a USS Gerald Ford, a USS Bush, and a USS Reagan. And no USS Enterprise.
I’d be happy with USS America, or Ranger (first ship, 1777), or Lexington (first ship 1776)
20
Ima Fake
// Oct 25, 2006 at 12:19 pm
Destroyers should be named for people, Cruisers for cities, Capital ships for states, but my favorite is naming ammo ships for volcanoes.
Carriers, who knows. As for Lex’s question mark, if memory serves me correctly, the name Shangri-La was a homage to the Hornet?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s bombing of Tokyo, helped by the fully constitutional Army Air Corps. Nobody knew how we bombed Tokoy and when the MSM asked President Roosevelt where the bombers came from and he said, ‘Shangri-La.?¢‚Ǩ¬ù
After the Hornet was sunk, they named the USS Shangri-La in homage. (Hornet is a traditional classy name too).
21
Justthisguy
// Oct 25, 2006 at 12:37 pm
“America”, of course. Or “United States”, or “Constellation”. I think “President” and “Chesapeake” belong to somebody else, now, unfortunately. I liked the old system much better, it being a system, and all.
If the Brits can have ships named “Vindictive”, “Nasty”, “Viper” and suchlike, why can’t we do something similar. In light of some of the remarks above I propose a, oh call it the “Sphincter” class, of names for the next bunch of ugly dangerous ships we build.
Some names which come to mind are Moe Howard, Eric Cartman, Hillary Clinton, Eddie Haskell, Charles Starkweather, Janet Reno, Baby-Face Nelso, etc. Now that’s a list of dangerous-to-cross folks
22
Michelle
// Oct 25, 2006 at 12:47 pm
“I thought there already was a USS Clinton: http://newsbusters.org/node/8343
B2
That was cute. But why you pickin’ on CanaDUH, eh?
23
Snake Eater
// Oct 25, 2006 at 1:22 pm
B-2, Just read the link on the USS Clinton…absolutely price-less. Best
PS, Michelle, IMO “CanaDUH” deserves no less… for sure, for sure… eh?
24
Steeljaw Scribe
// Oct 25, 2006 at 1:54 pm
It’s time to bring some semblance of sanity back to naming of carriers and it should start with naming carriers after famous battles beginning with Midway, then Coral Sea…
-SJS
25
Steeljaw Scribe
// Oct 25, 2006 at 1:58 pm
Oh, and please, no “United States” — bad history insofar as CV’s go. First one was canc’d by Truman in favor of buying B-36’s (yech) and the second attempt was canned by Clinton to get a carrier named after Truman…. Thirs time is NOT the charm in this regard.
-SJS
26
CPT J
// Oct 25, 2006 at 2:31 pm
Gawd, I could just see it now:
USS CARTMAN ship’s crest
“You WILL Respect Mah Authoritayyyy!!”
Let’s return to the dignity of the honorable names of famous battles, etc. The Big Stick should be able to talk softly…
27
Byron Audler
// Oct 25, 2006 at 2:39 pm
CAPT Lex, I can’t believe you left out Saratoga! Put me down for any great battle, any great NAVAL warrior, or even America. Anything but a politician.
SoCalP8: Nimitz deserved to have a carrier named after him. Yes, he wore dolphins. But more than anyone else, he is the man that drove the carriers across the Pacific, all the way to the shores of Tokyo Bay. Were it not for his vision and leadership, we’d have tried to fight the war with battleships. Personally, I think the treaty should have been signed on the flight deck of one of our new carriers, or better, the Enterprise, since the IJN announced that she’d been sunk several times.
28
Iowa Bill
// Oct 25, 2006 at 3:43 pm
Pardon this landlubber, and not even military at that, but I have to ask you guys, is it wise to name a ship after our whole country? God forbid, in some future battle we’d be reading the headlines “America sinks” or “United States sinks”! I’m thinking of that new silent Swedish sub, sold to the highest bidder. Your thoughts?
29
Justthisguy
// Oct 25, 2006 at 3:54 pm
Sorry, I wuz jest thinkin about the Six Original Frigates (minus the captured ones, of course) as a foundation for starting to get our minds right again.
Thinking on those lines, Ranger, Wasp and Hornet are ‘way cool, and Rattlesnake; not to mention Macedonian.
30
Justthisguy
// Oct 25, 2006 at 5:03 pm
I. Bill, we’re smarter than that. It was superstitious Adolph Hitler who renamed “Deutschland” for that reason.
I do think “Chesapeake” would bring bad luck, though.
31
74
// Oct 25, 2006 at 5:45 pm
Lex, I’m aghast that you left my old ship, the USS Ranger (CV-61) off your list of carriers named after historical ships. America would be fine for the name of the next one, but if we’re going to recycle; lets go with an old one. How about USS Langley (CVN-78).
32 The Wood Shed // Oct 25, 2006 at 6:13 pm
And a Fine Punch-line it is!…
On the current debate regarding naming carriers Lex tags an earlier post:
Someday perhaps, we?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll even have a ship named the USS BILL CLINTON.
Won?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t be a frigate though. A frigate only has one screw.
And smoking will be allowed throughout the ship. …
33
AFSister
// Oct 25, 2006 at 6:44 pm
BUWAHAHAHHAHA>… USS Cartman/respect muy authoritaaayyyy.. TOO FRIKKIN FUNNY.
We could have a USS Clark Kent (seaking truth, justice and the American way!); a USS Peter Parker (with great power comes great responsibility); a USS Snoopy ( hey- he always beat the Red Baron!); a USS Barney (I love you; you love me; we’re a happy fam-i-ly…); a USS Shaggy (Will work for Scooby Snacks); a USS Popeye (I’m strong to the finish, cuz I eats me spinach!)…. the possibilities are endless, you know.
I can see it now: The new Cartoon Class fleet!
34
Justthisguy
// Oct 25, 2006 at 8:09 pm
Winston Churchill, I believe, dis-approved of some code names for operations because he thought that they were too silly and frivolous, though secure by those very qualities. He thought, I think, that it would be easier to write home to some soldier’s mother that he had died in Operation Overlord, for example, than, say, Operation Pussy-Willow.
Names are important for us humans. I believe the first task the Lord gave Adam was to give names to things.
35
Justthisguy
// Oct 25, 2006 at 8:29 pm
Um, I was maybe 3/8 serious (ok, 1/8) when I proposed the sphincter class torpedo boats.
36 Sim // Oct 25, 2006 at 9:35 pm
Justthisguy-
If there’s anything the Brits do well it’s name ships. I want to see HMS Warspite back.
And HMAS Vendetta and Vampire while we’re at it.
37
sid
// Oct 25, 2006 at 9:35 pm
“As for the Yawls, I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m not too sure about the NA9, Flirt or NA10, Lively, but I sure wouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t want to be on the NA17, Dandy. Just wouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t want to.”
I heard the poor souls aboard the HMS Dainty had just a terrible time whenever on liberty…
http://www.wrightandlogan.co.uk/images/Dainty2.jpg
38
Skippy-san
// Oct 25, 2006 at 10:26 pm
5 cruises on America baby! I vote for taking the Navy back to its naming conventions.
Plus you can have cooler alongside music. What are you going to use if you name it Ford? The Michigan fight song?
39
Sh1fty
// Oct 25, 2006 at 11:03 pm
I’m all for a USS America, but lets make it part of a class of America-themed ships - Constitution (can we do that with the other Constitution?), Liberty Bell, Mt. Rushmore, and the like.
40
BigFred
// Oct 26, 2006 at 4:10 am
I had the pleasure of driving planguard behind AMERICA during her last deployment. I also had the pleasure to command a PC, the SHAMAL, lucky number 13. The joke among the low number PC drivers, HURRICANE, TYPHOON, TEMPEST, was that after about seven they ran out of names, and should have called the rest of us MORNING DEW, or HEAVY MIST. The final PC (14)was called TORNADO.
Bring back AMERICA.
41
Idaho Joe
// Oct 26, 2006 at 4:56 am
Can they use the names of ships that are museums? Hornet, Midway and Yorktown come to mind. I assume these ships are stricken, but it could cause some confusion if the CVN 79 Midway ever pulled into Sandy Eggo near the museum.
42
FbL
// Oct 26, 2006 at 7:40 am
but it could cause some confusion if the CVN 79 Midway ever pulled into Sandy Eggo near the museum.
It’s not possible for a carrier NOT to be near the museum when it pulls in. Midway is almost directly across the harbor (land side) from where the carriers dock on North Island, and the harbor isn’t particularly wide there.
43
PigBoatSailor
// Oct 26, 2006 at 11:03 am
Politicians are fine names for smaller surface ships or submarines
Whoa, hey now, why do we get the shaft. Yeah yeah, we had to take Carter, he -was- a submariner after all, and Rickover was a requirement. But honestly, can we go back to being named after fish? The SEAWOLF got my hopes up.
Put this bubblehead in the “America” column, in the hope that the whole fleet starts moving back towards traditional naming.
44
Phil
// Oct 26, 2006 at 6:35 pm
Just a comment on the above–I read somewhere that President Carter was qualified as OOD underway on a BB. I think that predated his interview with Admiral Rickover, so if memory serves, he was a Lieutenant. I don’t suppose too many J.O.’s get qualified as OOD underway under CDR on a bird farm! BTW my two ships were named IMPLICIT and RECLAIMER.
45 Nose // Oct 27, 2006 at 6:14 am
Phil-
I hope someone who knows better will correct me, but I believe on GW we had a couple of LT OODs, and I don’t recall ever seeing anyone stand OOD senior to LCDR. (There was the usual parade of LCDR/CDRs in line to do the Conning Alongside thing but that was mostly Air Wing guys.)
It’s funny, but I could sometimes tell from the LSO platform when certain OODs were driving by the way they would follow (or chase) the wind. Fortunately, the ANAV was a friend and I could usually get him to step in when it got too silly!
Nose
46 "Tailhooker" // Nov 10, 2006 at 2:42 am
Readers and Submitters ALL,
In a time when humor brings some sanity to a world that is currently full of brave men and women dying to promote societies to become their own Free and Democratic (in their defination)countries. I believe that the United States Navy needs and quite frankly deserves a ship that sacrificed herself so that CVN78 could be built with a better survival rate than previous Carriers of the Line. She now rests in 17,500 ft of Atlantic Ocean along with all her secrets. A ship of the line needs to carry with her not only might but the might of the entire US Population and no better name than AMERICA carries that might. Politions get back to discussions that we the people pay you for and allow the SECNAV to make decisions that we pay him for, naming ships that are not mandated by an act of Congress as a Chistmas tree ornament attached to and hidden in a bill that is not related the issue at all.
Smooth Sailin’
Tailhooker Out..!!
47
Albany Rifles
// Dec 19, 2006 at 5:34 am
I vote for the USS Ironsides class
48
Walt
// Jul 3, 2007 at 9:53 am
I know the title “America” is knowen as the United States, But I like the title USS US better!
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