Comments on: Exiting gracefully http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/ The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy! Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:54:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: lex http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/comment-page-1/#comment-32872 lex Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:22:59 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/#comment-32872 I understand that you believe that to be true. I'd like to believe that it isn't. Either way, if that part of the world is going continue exporting violence on an industrial scale to ours because of their perceived slights and nurtured grievances, we owe it to them to offer them an alternative to inevitable destruction. If it's a clash of civilizations they're after, they will be destroyed whether they believe it or not. I think it's worth finding out if that's the only choice we're faced with. I understand that you believe that to be true. I’d like to believe that it isn’t. Either way, if that part of the world is going continue exporting violence on an industrial scale to ours because of their perceived slights and nurtured grievances, we owe it to them to offer them an alternative to inevitable destruction.

If it’s a clash of civilizations they’re after, they will be destroyed whether they believe it or not. I think it’s worth finding out if that’s the only choice we’re faced with.

]]> By: Skippy-san http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/comment-page-1/#comment-32865 Skippy-san Tue, 12 Dec 2006 04:40:06 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/#comment-32865 Lex, I suspect that is the fundamental difference. On this issue I'm a pessimist, you are an optimist. History tends to support my point of view. The world of today is not fundamentally different than 100 years ago EXCEPT in terms of how fast the bad news travels and the technology by which the bad news is executed. Also I cannot ( and I have tried) make the connection between upheaval in Iraq and the terrorists. Even if Iraq were stable, terrorists would simply grow elsewhere. In that regard what is going on Iraq is allowing terrorism to spread and metastize, its not in any way containing it. The world may be re-ordering, but it is along familar lines. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Its simply the names and nationalities of the poor are changing. Finally if there is to be such a democratic re-ordering, it has to start from within and even then its a dicey thing (e.g. look at Lebanon these days......). Nations evolve at their own pace and usually attempts to spead up the process of natural selection tend to fail. As Charles Darwin noted in the last century............ Lex,

I suspect that is the fundamental difference. On this issue I’m a pessimist, you are an optimist. History tends to support my point of view.

The world of today is not fundamentally different than 100 years ago EXCEPT in terms of how fast the bad news travels and the technology by which the bad news is executed.

Also I cannot ( and I have tried) make the connection between upheaval in Iraq and the terrorists. Even if Iraq were stable, terrorists would simply grow elsewhere. In that regard what is going on Iraq is allowing terrorism to spread and metastize, its not in any way containing it.

The world may be re-ordering, but it is along familar lines. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Its simply the names and nationalities of the poor are changing.

Finally if there is to be such a democratic re-ordering, it has to start from within and even then its a dicey thing (e.g. look at Lebanon these days……). Nations evolve at their own pace and usually attempts to spead up the process of natural selection tend to fail. As Charles Darwin noted in the last century…………

]]> By: lex http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/comment-page-1/#comment-32529 lex Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:46:33 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/#comment-32529 Dictatorships that provide us oil also provided us the 9/11 terrorists, which is what this is all about. If we succeed at this, the world fundamentally re-orders along democratic lines tending towards personal freedom. The opposite is also true. Dictatorships that provide us oil also provided us the 9/11 terrorists, which is what this is all about.

If we succeed at this, the world fundamentally re-orders along democratic lines tending towards personal freedom.

The opposite is also true.

]]> By: Skippy-san http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/comment-page-1/#comment-32433 Skippy-san Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:53:11 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/#comment-32433 That is not what I said. The US has no interests in Iraq that are worth losing American lives over. Unless you want to me to say that the war is about oil, and if so, I would simply point out that dictatorships provide us with plenty of oil too. The invasion was a detour of choice, that in the end is proving to be a great dag on our overall posture overseas. And the supposed war on terror. Its good for the Iraqis, because that is all that stands between them and chaos. But what is good for Iraqis is not necessarily good for the US. Or phrased another way, this is all effects based targeting. We obivously are not achieving our desired effect. Perhaps we chose the wrong means to start with.....or we underresourced it. That is not what I said.

The US has no interests in Iraq that are worth losing American lives over. Unless you want to me to say that the war is about oil, and if so, I would simply point out that dictatorships provide us with plenty of oil too.

The invasion was a detour of choice, that in the end is proving to be a great dag on our overall posture overseas. And the supposed war on terror.

Its good for the Iraqis, because that is all that stands between them and chaos. But what is good for Iraqis is not necessarily good for the US.

Or phrased another way, this is all effects based targeting. We obivously are not achieving our desired effect. Perhaps we chose the wrong means to start with…..or we underresourced it.

]]> By: lex http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/comment-page-1/#comment-31877 lex Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:12:09 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/#comment-31877 I've heard a lot of war critics complain about a lot of different things, Skip - but I think this is probably the first time I've ever heard <em>anyone</em> say that the US has no interests in Iraq, or by proxy, the middle east. Ever. The new rallying cry: <em><strong>NO BLOOD FOR NOTHING!!!</strong></em> I’ve heard a lot of war critics complain about a lot of different things, Skip – but I think this is probably the first time I’ve ever heard anyone say that the US has no interests in Iraq, or by proxy, the middle east. Ever.

The new rallying cry: NO BLOOD FOR NOTHING!!!

]]> By: Michelle http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/comment-page-1/#comment-31825 Michelle Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:18:52 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2006/12/04/exiting-gracefully/#comment-31825 Hey Skippy-san, was wondering where you've been lately - good to see you back! Hey Skippy-san, was wondering where you’ve been lately – good to see you back!

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