I don’t own any handguns, being more of a hunter than a shooter – although these, days, eh: Not so much. Limited access and noli me tangere quia Caesaris sum, etc.
I do enjoy poppin’ me some caps though, so when SNO encouraged me to go with him down to the local, it was with no great reluctance that I accepted. We had intended to get even with some clay pigeons, but the Miramar range didn’t have the good grace to be open on the Second of January in the Year of Our Lord, 2007 so we defaulted to the indoor range and pistols at 10, 15 and 20 paces.
Now I may have mentioned previously that I have taken something of a shine to the Heckler & Koch .45 ACP USP, for it is a sweet pistol which points beautifully and makes quite a number of large – if the round size doesn’t start with a “4″ you only piss the bad guys off – and well-grouped holes even at moderate distances, so long as you breathe well, focus on the front sight, let the hammer’s fall surprise you and only ease the trigger back to the catch after firing the first round, repeat.
Sadly, the H&K was off to the gunsmith and I was forced to venture further afield, to wit: The Sig Sauer P220, also in .45 ACP.
Although it felt a bit like cheating – the H&K and I had grown very close – the Sig was a pleasant surprise. In my hands it was if anything more accurate than the H&K no doubt due to the somewhat slimmer grip profile. It also had – for those of us raised on the M1911 – a more conventional magazine release than the H&K does.
The release for the P220 is spring-tensioned button mounted on the pistol frame itself behind the trigger guard and is accessed by the unemployed trigger finger from the right hand side of the pistol (for a right-handed shooter), just like the M1911. The H&K’s magazine by contrast is released pressing down on a lever mounted just to the rear and below of the trigger guard itself and is accessed with the right thumb. Since that weakens the shooter’s grip on the pistol a bit it had always felt a little awkward to me. Although I eventually learned to release the catch without turning the pistol on its side, looking at it and holding it palm up in my hand, it took a bit of practice. It also felt just the teeniest bit flimsy compared to the rest of the pistol and taken with the other issues the magazine release had long been my chief complaint against the H&K, even while its advocates swear that the design prevents indadvertant magazine release – something I would be more concerned about perhaps, had it ever happened to me personally.
Nothing comes for free, and the slimmer profile of the Sig meant that it only carried 7 rounds in the magazine, while the H&K, with its beefier grip, holds a double-stack magazine with a theoretical capacity of 12. Double stack mags are of course illegal in the state of California, and anyway if you need to be able to chamber 12 rounds in your self-defense weapon you ought to perhaps consider taking shooting lessons to improve your accuracy or else moving to a safer neighborhood.
We also took turns a-firing of the store’s AR-15, just for the accuracy that was in it. Little bitty holes, but they do go just where you aim them and get there right quick. It was over all too soon.
All good clean fun, and only in America. Still, if it was down to brass tacks, I’d go a different way entirely. Not that they’re giving them away, but you can never have too many shotguns.
Outstanding, sir! The SIG P220 is a fine shooting handgun. In fact, it is my carry piece (unless I am in the woods, then I prefer the .357–different discussion). You can get 8-round magazines for it, and 8+1 is a good way to go. No safeties to mess with, and the DA pull is smooth. Mine likes the Hornady 230gr. JHP TAP at 950 fps.
I’m so jealous! I haven’t been there since the BF first introduced me to handguns. He’s been too busy and I’ve been too self-conscious to go alone…
Lex,
Just for grins, check out a Springfield Armory XD45. 13 and 1, deadnuts on and easy on the wallet. Points really well and smooth easy DA squeeze. Weighs less loaded than my 1911A1 and double the rounds. I also appreciate your love for the HK and the Sig but they are a little heftier priced. If you ever get up this way I can get a range any day of the week and the price is right.
GEO6
Lex,
I’m still shooting a 1911 in competition, so 8+1 is my usual load. However, in response to the idea that a “hi-cap” is not something anyone needs, I would note that both the military and the police routinely carry the largest magazines available. See your earlier post on the police and consider that. Officer Friendly isn’t carrying a 6 shot revolver anymore.
I would be willing to accept a law that restricted all citizens to the same armaments that the police were allowed to carry. Since police are citizens and all….
When the moment turns to s*** and I’m drawing from concealment, I should be carrying more, not less. I don’t have a radio and backup is not on the way. The weapon I have and the rounds I’ve chambered is all that stands between my family and the threat.
Appreciate the great writing about your latest shooting foray.
As for shotguns; what would make the Italian shotgun (MSRP $1900+!) any better than the el-cheapo Mossberg (@ $200)?
Other than the beautiful wood work, the fine corinthian…
Nothing says love, more than good home protection. And a family trained to use it properly!
“Double stack mags are of course illegal in the state of California, and anyway if you need to be able to chamber 12 rounds in your self-defense weapon you ought to perhaps consider taking shooting lessons to improve your accuracy or else moving to a safer neighborhood.”
Well, I carry 15 rounds in my 92FS for self defense and shoot just fine. Then again, I hear the “you don’t need more than 10 rounds” a lot from people who live in states that fail to be as free and great as Virginia or Pennsylvania.
Strictly speaking, you can own double stack magazines here on the Left Coast, as long as they were made, and possessed, before Jan. 1, 2000. Can’t *buy* any now, though.
Anyway, if you like .45ACP, you could do a lot worse than look at the CZ-97B; accurate, rugged, controls work in the same directions as the 1911, and a 10-round magazine, to boot.
The CZ-75s are nice, too, if you can tolerate making do with 9mm or .40.
I too like a caliber that begins with a “4″. I’m more old fashioned, however, in likeing the feel, the weight and the balance of a revolver. Rugar makes a very nice single-action chambering the 45 long colt. These make large holes and they go where you point them also. (They also make a bigger bang than the 45 ACP which is handy I guess).
I believe you’re absolutely correct having a shotgun for home and family protection. (They also can make a big bang, but don’t have the range were you must worry about the innocents next door or across the street).
I learned to shoot with a black powder revolver years and years ago which is probably the reason for my prejudice. It was time consuming to “re-load”, but made a loud noise when fired along with creating a large cloud of white smoke. It was easy on the hand as the recoil was softer. (Good for teaching the young to shoot) The Crisco, (used as a chamber sealant), made it a little messy and the general cleaning of the piece afterwards was more intensive. Mine was chambered for .451 soft lead balls over about 30 grains of Black powder. (The more powder, the more smoke) These pieces can still be purchased over-the-counter in Pennsylvania just across the Delaware from here in “Doity Joisey”, a not-so-free state.
I had an old replica Colt Navy in .45 I built up and used to shoot too – Too much fun.
As for the preferences on hi cap mags, I knew that would bring ‘em out of the woodwork. As a Virginian by birth, I appreciate the more liberal laws of the Commonwealth, but for now I’m stuck with the regulations of the nanny state. Best to make a virtue of necessity.
And that Beretta? She’s just a very sweet pointing. beautifil shotgun, is all. I’m sure the Mossberg would get the work done just as efficiently. But lots of things in life are like that, aren’t they? And aesthetics do count.
Hell, it isn’t like I can afford it – a man can dream
Lex,
I carry a HK .40 USP Law Enforcement Model for work. 12+1, tritium sights, shoots nice (not so nice when I’m shooting), and best of all, my uncle (SAM) bought it for me to use! It’s a little small, but I’m pretty sure it would put a pretty good size hole in anyone unfortunate to step in front of it. The thumb release for the Mags takes a bit to get used to, but actually makes life pretty simple when it comes to emergency/tactical reloads.
Took my 10 year old son to the range for the first time a couple of weeks ago. He’s shot the old .22 rifle a couple of times, but never the big noisemaker. He done good and all the guys at the range gave him an “attaboy” for his shooting and following appropriate safety rules. Gotta love old Virginny!
Nose
(Proud papa)
A nice shotgun is a nice piece, so “they” say. Like an extension of the will and the mind, etc. (I’ve actually never fired a shotgun, but have had some fun shooting pistols and revolvers.)
I recall reading, years ago, in a book printed years before I read it, that the U.S. military used to be able to count on yer average recruit to hit anything within 20 yards with a shotgun, with his eyes shut.
Of course, the book was so old that the writer never heard of bag limits or other annoying game laws, and just killed birds to his heart’s content and ate some of them. Yep, that’s what he wrote.
I am reminded of a story about somebody taking Lord Nelson bird-shooting. It seems he scared the other folks by carrying his gun Naval (boarding) style, at the assault with finger inside trigger guard. He *may* have gotten a bird, or a dog felt sorry for him and brought him someone else’s bird.
Oh, P.S. I feel quite mortified when I realize that all of my firearms are perfectly legal in the People’s Republic of Kali. I must get me some kinda Evil Black Rifle, or something, with all of the Bad Features, just to, well, spite those folks.
Say, would somebody kindly raise the upper age limit on the Militia to 60 or so, so I can claim that Federal law *requires* me to have a rifle that shoots the .223, a good pair of boots, rucksack, etc.
I have the boots and the rucksack, though the kitties have peeed on the rucksack and I can no longer carry it where there are armed humans with working olfactory nerves
The Sig Sauer I have never shot it myself. It seems that nearly all the aircrew in my neck of the woods (VAQ community) are carrying it in the 9mm variant. Which was kind of suprising for me considering that I would have assumed they did would had been carrying the Berreta 92FS.
I have always been a fan of the S&W Model 27 since that is what I use to see nearly all of the Feds near me as a kid carry, at least for pistols and FBI guys are always cool.
The Coast Guard has switched to the .40 cal version of the Sig. I haven’t shot it yet but I’ve heard some good things about it.
The .40 S&W is a good round. I own 3 pistols that chamber it and our State Troopers carry the Sig in that caliber after ditching the 9mm. It is a chopped 10mm anyway, but good stopping power when using flying ashtrays. Interesting note: I found I can inter change the slide and barrel of my M9 and 96. Also the 9mm hi cap mags will feed the .40, not that I keep it that way mind you. But it shoots fine. I found the 9mm round is more accurate but the .40 stays in the center of mass quite well at 25 meters.
BTW, this may surprise you, Lex, but this state has the most liberal gun laws in the country- you can legally carry concealed firearms just about anywhere but courthouses, bars and of course, school yards. That will probably change if the scum keep moving in here at some point and shooting each other over drug deals gone sour.
I like my P220 because it is more (a little anyway) comfortable for extended carry when using an IWB holster. I do have 4 extra 8-rnd mags available…If you really want hi-capacity then you need to look at Para Ordnance. I think the highest they go for a .45 is 13+1, but they have a 16+1 .40 and a 18+1 9mm.
I are one of dem ol’fashioned 10 mile a day walking bird (BW quail, ruffed grouse/beady eyed devils and the gentlemanly woodcock) hunter who does 5 miles between scarce modern day coveys. All the while yelling at a 7 year old bird hunting machine named, well…she goes by a variety o’names when we’re afield.
Now Lex, if’n you really want to hunt birds why would you want one of those heavy, pistol-gripped, yuugly eye-talian O/U’s?
This is better
It’ll never lose a dime and always work. Probably be worth 5 times what you paid when you can’t walk no more. Heck, ain’t you the dude that commutes tp work on that giant off road heine machine? You can afford the real thing!
dc- I’taint dignified to shoot and miss the king o’game birds (Rufus Umbellus) wid a Mossberg. Home invaders-OK.
b2
Actually B2, when it comes to side-by-sides and upland birds, I’m a Parker man. The proud owner of an workaday 16 ga. Vulcan and a sweet as buttermilk 20 ga. DHE.
It’s for dove and geese that an O/U comes in handy, IMHO. So yah, I lust.
OK. I shoulda known! You erudite SumB! Parker, LC, Daly, AYA, Merkels…. you get it. Probably bought that DHE at the right time, too.
As for ducks and geese I like my B5/Ithaca pump in 12..Eeven though plenty o’ ducks/geese are available to me I don’t like the liver-y tasting suckers so I don’t..Plus, duck & geese hunting mean pack mule-ing at o’dark thirty , followed by sit on butt for 5-6 hours..repeat pack-muling-boring. I’m sorta getting the same feeling about butt-sitting to deer hunt. Only do it with a bow still because it’s more exciting! Rather walk, yell and miss! And that is why I miss the west where you have to move & glass or walk!
You need to get out. Forget about those Imperial/San Juaquin valley waterfowl. They’re stuffed with selenium! Go after them thar chukars at China Like. They’ll make you cry for mercy!
B2
Lex, for O/U goodness, I have one of these sweet little darlings in 20ga, while the hubby has one (without the pretty engraving) in 12ga. Never actually had it out in the field, but I hope to introduce BCR to it at the trap range in warmer weather this spring.
I don’t know how many tangerines Caesar has either, but you don’t hear me complaining about it. And although it’s my least favorite to handle, I’ve gotten fantastic accuracy from a Colt Combat Commander. As good as my P226, which I would never have expected.
All of the input on this topic has some relevance if restricted to the topic of punching holes in paper, tin cans or the occasional horned mammal; but nothing at all to do with the savings of one’s epidermis.
My unit investigated well over 400 murders in calendar year 2006, 79% of which were committed with firearms; few of which were of the expensive, well-oiled, lovingly cared-for models gushed about above.
To be sure, there was the occasional military-style long-gun, and more rare yet, a well-maintained semi-automatic pistol; but more often than not death came from the barrel of a rusty smallbore revolver, a crudely shortened shotgun, or semi-automatic pistol loaded with a mixed-bag of ammunition.
It’s not the number of digits in the price tag, or the size of the holes in the “target”, it’s the location of those holes in the target.
I’ve seen many cases in which medical magic has saved folks shot with large caliber handguns; but many more in which .22’s or .38’s have proven quite adequate.
Based on my experience, until you have entered an arena in which the paper targets or tin cans shoot back, one cannot predict the accuracy of their shots – therefore more bullets, with which to make more holes – rapidly and accurately will carry the day.
I detect some hoity-toity shotgun snobs, here. I may just go get a Mossberg ugly military pump gun, and some instruction for it, and a licence next dove season, just to spite y’all. I feel better and better about having Jim Webb in the Senate.
Uh, say, what does a plain Winchester Model 21 go for these days? (20 gauge)