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	<title>Comments on: Almost right</title>
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	<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/</link>
	<description>The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy!</description>
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		<title>By: djvc</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/comment-page-1/#comment-40738</link>
		<dc:creator>djvc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/#comment-40738</guid>
		<description>i only have 40 hours logged on my wat to a private cert.  it&#039;s all very fun and exciting, however this just adds to the reality of what we are all really doing.  it can kill you if you are not paying attention to detail.  i sit in my office and the very short final to SNA [orange county, CA] is right outside of my window.  i have seen 757&#039;s go around from very in close and twice seen 2 planes trying to land at the same time.  on the latter i expected fireballs, each had less than 30 feet seperation, both on the IFR approach, one pulled away to the right with such bank i thought his wing was going to drag and he missed very large fuel tanks by inches.  

i have always been taught to keep my head on a swivel, for all kinds of traffic.  i practice right over the old MCAS El Toro, and there is a corridor at 4500&#039; above there, with all kinds of traffic going by [i smash bugs around 3500&#039;].  i was on a spin training hop in a decathalon inside a aerobatic training area and had an extra 300 go by vertical 150&#039; off the port side [not quite as fast as the F-22].  building solo time in the pattern with 5 other aircraft i made a radio call to prevent someone who started turning final from cutting off the guy in front of him, who was inbound on final from an extended downwind start.  he thought he was number 2.

big sky, little airplane.

so after 40 or so hours logged i keep a lookout for the guy not looking out.  much like the guy&#039;s who took off on the wrong runway not too long ago, all it takes is a few seconds loss of situational awareness and you are dead.  i wonder if the guy in the 182 ever even saw the other guy&#039;s.  he was in a big hurry to get a departure, on a route he was most likely familiar with.  i&#039;m not sure if he could have picked up the intentions of the 172 on the radio, but with what sounded like a pretty crowded day he should have had better [read: increased] visual/situational awareness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i only have 40 hours logged on my wat to a private cert.  it&#8217;s all very fun and exciting, however this just adds to the reality of what we are all really doing.  it can kill you if you are not paying attention to detail.  i sit in my office and the very short final to SNA [orange county, CA] is right outside of my window.  i have seen 757&#8242;s go around from very in close and twice seen 2 planes trying to land at the same time.  on the latter i expected fireballs, each had less than 30 feet seperation, both on the IFR approach, one pulled away to the right with such bank i thought his wing was going to drag and he missed very large fuel tanks by inches.  </p>
<p>i have always been taught to keep my head on a swivel, for all kinds of traffic.  i practice right over the old MCAS El Toro, and there is a corridor at 4500&#8242; above there, with all kinds of traffic going by [i smash bugs around 3500'].  i was on a spin training hop in a decathalon inside a aerobatic training area and had an extra 300 go by vertical 150&#8242; off the port side [not quite as fast as the F-22].  building solo time in the pattern with 5 other aircraft i made a radio call to prevent someone who started turning final from cutting off the guy in front of him, who was inbound on final from an extended downwind start.  he thought he was number 2.</p>
<p>big sky, little airplane.</p>
<p>so after 40 or so hours logged i keep a lookout for the guy not looking out.  much like the guy&#8217;s who took off on the wrong runway not too long ago, all it takes is a few seconds loss of situational awareness and you are dead.  i wonder if the guy in the 182 ever even saw the other guy&#8217;s.  he was in a big hurry to get a departure, on a route he was most likely familiar with.  i&#8217;m not sure if he could have picked up the intentions of the 172 on the radio, but with what sounded like a pretty crowded day he should have had better [read: increased] visual/situational awareness.</p>
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		<title>By: lex</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/comment-page-1/#comment-40626</link>
		<dc:creator>lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/#comment-40626</guid>
		<description>I tend to agree with Chris, although it &lt;em&gt;does&lt;/em&gt; take two to mid-air. I spent most of my time in visual lookout in the forward hemisphere. Maybe it&#039;s a life spent in fast jets, but I never sweated being &quot;run over&quot; by someone else.

With the relative closure rates in effect, this really shouldn&#039;t have happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to agree with Chris, although it <em>does</em> take two to mid-air. I spent most of my time in visual lookout in the forward hemisphere. Maybe it&#8217;s a life spent in fast jets, but I never sweated being &#8220;run over&#8221; by someone else.</p>
<p>With the relative closure rates in effect, this really shouldn&#8217;t have happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Daveg</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/comment-page-1/#comment-40582</link>
		<dc:creator>Daveg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/#comment-40582</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Being a private, VFR only, pilot is fast on the road to endangered species status. Especially since 9-11.&lt;/i&gt;

Ironically, the opposite is the case.  Consider the new Light Sport Airplane (LSA) rules: no medical required, no night training, no hood training, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Being a private, VFR only, pilot is fast on the road to endangered species status. Especially since 9-11.</i></p>
<p>Ironically, the opposite is the case.  Consider the new Light Sport Airplane (LSA) rules: no medical required, no night training, no hood training, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Daveg</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/comment-page-1/#comment-40581</link>
		<dc:creator>Daveg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/#comment-40581</guid>
		<description>Mode C is already required within a 30 mile radius of Class B airspace.  Outside the 30 mile radius, traffic conditions are much more favorable to the see &amp; avoid strategy.

Regarding hood work, I always said that the worst possible day for hood work was a bright, shiny weekend day when the renters and weekend fliers are out in force.  Part of the responsibilty lies with the IFR guys.  A 100 hour renter just isn&#039;t going to know what &quot;procedure turn inbound&quot; means.  When self-reporting on Unicom, I&#039;d report &quot;6 miles East&quot; rather than referencing the procedure turn, marker, or any IFR term I didn&#039;t think would be understood by a VFR-only pilot.

A lot of VFR piots are also going to be surprised by the straight-in approach inherent in most instrument approaches, and in many cases I&#039;ve seen IFR students approach opposite direction to prevailing traffic because that particular approach is the one they wanted to practice.  When flying VFR, I pay particular attention to the extended centerline when making the base leg, looking for a possible straight-in.

When I was out shooting non-precision practice approaches at uncontrolled fields, I&#039;d fly them at 3000&#039; or so above the traffic pattern and use a &quot;floor&quot; 1000&#039; above traffic pattern altitude as my &quot;field.&quot;  I still got the practice of flying the approach, but didn&#039;t run as much risk of getting mixed up with a guy doing touch &amp; goes.

Precision approaches are easier since they almost always include a control tower.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mode C is already required within a 30 mile radius of Class B airspace.  Outside the 30 mile radius, traffic conditions are much more favorable to the see &amp; avoid strategy.</p>
<p>Regarding hood work, I always said that the worst possible day for hood work was a bright, shiny weekend day when the renters and weekend fliers are out in force.  Part of the responsibilty lies with the IFR guys.  A 100 hour renter just isn&#8217;t going to know what &#8220;procedure turn inbound&#8221; means.  When self-reporting on Unicom, I&#8217;d report &#8220;6 miles East&#8221; rather than referencing the procedure turn, marker, or any IFR term I didn&#8217;t think would be understood by a VFR-only pilot.</p>
<p>A lot of VFR piots are also going to be surprised by the straight-in approach inherent in most instrument approaches, and in many cases I&#8217;ve seen IFR students approach opposite direction to prevailing traffic because that particular approach is the one they wanted to practice.  When flying VFR, I pay particular attention to the extended centerline when making the base leg, looking for a possible straight-in.</p>
<p>When I was out shooting non-precision practice approaches at uncontrolled fields, I&#8217;d fly them at 3000&#8242; or so above the traffic pattern and use a &#8220;floor&#8221; 1000&#8242; above traffic pattern altitude as my &#8220;field.&#8221;  I still got the practice of flying the approach, but didn&#8217;t run as much risk of getting mixed up with a guy doing touch &amp; goes.</p>
<p>Precision approaches are easier since they almost always include a control tower.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Parkes</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/comment-page-1/#comment-40537</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Parkes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/#comment-40537</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if both aircraft are at fault - how are you supposed to see and avoid another aircraft which is behind and below you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if both aircraft are at fault &#8211; how are you supposed to see and avoid another aircraft which is behind and below you?</p>
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		<title>By: foobert</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/comment-page-1/#comment-40431</link>
		<dc:creator>foobert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/01/14/almost-right/#comment-40431</guid>
		<description>May I remind others that TCAS and IFR are no &lt;a href=&quot;http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/07/01/plane.collision/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;silver bullet&lt;/a&gt; to preventing collisions. Or how about the airliner near LA that ignored the TCAS warnings and drove right through a Cessna. You can say what you want about any extenuating circumstances that make these accidents special cases, but as long as humans are in the loop, &quot;mishaps&quot; will happen.  

I do agree that widespread deployment of TCAS would certainly help, and if it weren&#039;t so gosh darned expensive, I&#039;d have it myself in my lowly bug smasher. But the reality is that mid-air collisions between unrelated planes (meaning not flying formation or &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.neptunuslex.com/2004/06/05/tiad-near-mid-air/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dog-fighting&lt;/a&gt;) is statistically about the lowest item on the totem pole of preventable accidents.

B2, I strongly disagree that all the fun is gone from aviation these days. However, mandating your IRF requirement would go a long way to making that the case.

And finally, I have to disagree with Lex and others: BOTH the 172 and the 182 were at fault for not seeing and avoiding. Had either one of them been paying attention, we wouldn&#039;t be talking about this today. Even if the 172 was IFR, that doesn&#039;t excuse them from the responsibility of traffic avoidance while clear of clouds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I remind others that TCAS and IFR are no <a href="http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/07/01/plane.collision/index.html" rel="nofollow">silver bullet</a> to preventing collisions. Or how about the airliner near LA that ignored the TCAS warnings and drove right through a Cessna. You can say what you want about any extenuating circumstances that make these accidents special cases, but as long as humans are in the loop, &#8220;mishaps&#8221; will happen.  </p>
<p>I do agree that widespread deployment of TCAS would certainly help, and if it weren&#8217;t so gosh darned expensive, I&#8217;d have it myself in my lowly bug smasher. But the reality is that mid-air collisions between unrelated planes (meaning not flying formation or <a href="http://www.neptunuslex.com/2004/06/05/tiad-near-mid-air/" rel="nofollow">dog-fighting</a>) is statistically about the lowest item on the totem pole of preventable accidents.</p>
<p>B2, I strongly disagree that all the fun is gone from aviation these days. However, mandating your IRF requirement would go a long way to making that the case.</p>
<p>And finally, I have to disagree with Lex and others: BOTH the 172 and the 182 were at fault for not seeing and avoiding. Had either one of them been paying attention, we wouldn&#8217;t be talking about this today. Even if the 172 was IFR, that doesn&#8217;t excuse them from the responsibility of traffic avoidance while clear of clouds.</p>
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