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Su-30MK VideoI always loved getting in the proverbial “knife fight in a phoneboot” that BFM represents. But I have to admit that watching this video of the Su-30MK being put through its paces made me thougtful. I could do a lot of things with the Hornet. I could sometimes make her sing. But there are a lot of things this guy is doing that I couldn’t have done. [wmv width="480" height="360"]http://www.neptunuslex.com/downloads/SU-30.wmv[/wmv] Retired USAF MGEN Hank Stelling agrees according to the email in which I received this clip, saying:
So. Probably a good idea not to climb into the phonebooth with the Su-30MK. Maybe send along an AIM-120 or an AIM-9X instead. Sort of like a “proxy fight.” 22 comments to Su-30MK Video |
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Been seeing this vid for a cuppla anno. Nice A/C demo tape. Ivan is getting good at this medium.
I’m no fighter pilot and don’t play one on TV — looks very likely when that bird is stalled out that anyone can pop her out of the sky with a round or two from his gun. Why waste a missile.
Speed is life, and conversely….
SJBill
Great moves…once. And then if you don’t either guns/AIM-9 him, your wingman will. Yes, all impressive. But (given that I’m a mere civilian) isn’t the truism in ACM that “speed is life”? And further, this is probably not a run of the mill under-500 hours 0-3 flying this bird, either.
Hmmmm…I didn’t notice a weapons load being carried by this a/c. I also wonder if it was even carrying a full load of fuel. I doubt this demo was run at anything close to typical combat weight.
A Tomcat would have been able to call Fox 3 on this guy anyway
Come on guys…once you get to the merge and you go, “Oh sh1t..” Then you need to think a little more beyond the bravado.
Respect it for what it is, and remember that we have made the mistake before that our smart missles would negate the need to master the fundamentals.
Anyway, I am more interested how you go 2v8 with the J-10 without BVR ROE….and ANYFACE is nowhere to be found.
Impressive. Would be interesting to see one of these mix it up with an F-22 (or, if we’re not restricting ourselves to operational aircraft, an F-16 MATV or X-31).
Thought #1:
Fantastic seeing the airflow changes as it maneuvers.
Thought #2:
Wish I’d had some video like that to show my students when I was teaching ground school. (I think video had already been invented. Probably.)
Thought #3:
*Never*, ever, want to get in a knife fight with one of those.
Thought #4:
Maybe there are good reasons they make such very excellent ejection systems.
For all you guys poo-pooing this performance; De Nile is more than a river in Egypt.
Please, I’m not poo-poohing this engineering marvel in the least.
Sovs have had superior birds for as log a I can remember. Early on in Nam they owned our lunch boxes till we went to the books and the desert and learned to fight them. Following the lessons of Red Square, the ratio changed.
The MiG 21 was a fighter to be feared. I know of one man that shot 11 or 12 with a gun using Mirage IIICJ and Nesher 25s. With a gun.
[Bill C] Sir, with all respects, and I don’t wish to start a fur ball here, you seem to be poo-poohing our forces and their capabilities.
From what I see the average the kid behind the stick on our side can handle hisself pretty well thanks to a handful of experienced and creative Fighter Weapons School intructors and graduates — of our humble blog owner’s generation and of those before him.
I may be wrong, but my current understanding is that we own the air, day and night, if not on a mano-y-mano basis, but on a complete team basis which include our AEW platforms and the whole cast of characters we place up there.
We have the numbers and we have the quality in hardware and drivers.
Ivan may have a pretty nice demo platform but I doubt he’s waxed anybody just yet. Times and circumstances may change, and I will modify my POV.
With respect-
-SJBill
Amazing. I couldn’t talk the tech, but I know that thing is doing stuff I’ve never seen real aircraft do before.
It’s beautiful, too.
Now, it seems to this uneducated civilian that an up-close-and-personal fight would be no contest for it. But seriously, what are the options for dealing with it?
One other question, would the aircraft have been “stripped” (weight reduced) just for show-off purposes here?
I’m with SJBill. And CDR, I’ll grant you, the J-10 looks pretty on paper. But for the same reasons SJBill had, I don’t think it’s a huge problem. As for 2v8, if its a pair of Raptors, no problem
Despite the awesome performance of the Su-30Mk or the J-10, I’ll still place my bets on our own highly talented and superbly trained, steely-eyed guys every time.
However, without enough aircraft carriers or allied airfields in the vicinity of some future theater of action, and given the always limited in-flight refueling assets, our superior steely-eyed guys in their awesome flying machines should expect to be not outclassed, but surely well outnumbered by this new generation of formidable fighters.
And with excessive hostile numbers, what you call BFM is made more likely. Couple some potential future enemy’s superb aircraft performance with their closer-to-home much greater numbers, placed within a significant surface-to-air threat, and with perhaps some limiting rules of engagement, our guys will definitely have their work cut out for them. (But I’ll still bet on them to prevail.)
The moral is: More aircraft carriers, or more optimally positioned allied airfields, or both, help even the odds. Our guys are good, but they will need more infrastructure. As they say, if you don’t own the air. . .
The most amazing thing to me is the lack of compressor stall. Jets simply do not like performing in that manner, and that Ivan has managed to make it do so is a testament to his engineering ability.
Now, all that said, a few days ago we saw an F-16 low, slow, and targeted, and also numerous claims that speed is life. Well, speed differential is a nice thing to have too and this thing can scrub off speed with the best of them, but what about getting it back?
Seems to me there was an aircraft, an A6M Mitsubishi, that could fly circles around any of the speed-demon F4F and F6F it opposed. The F4F and F6F guys simply didn’t play that game with the A6M and generally won if they fought on their terms.
Lex? What’s your take?
– Max
SJBill,
I have no id how you infered from my post that I was denigrating our capabilities. Nothing could be more incorrect.
I had a chance years ago to talk with a group who had many, many -21 kills. When I asked what was their main advantage, they all answered, “It really helps if you are fighting Arabs…” Clearly the hand on the stick is priority one. But if you have a good pilot in a good airplane, be careful..
I did a little Googling this morning, and it sure looks like the J-10 is nothing but one of the F-16 Cranked Arrow variants with a Russian engine, avionics and weapons. And that this design had its share of problems as well:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-10.htm
And like the man said, it’s real hard to beat experience and training….lots and lots of training…realistic, turning and burning, yanking and banking, and God forbid, a loss once in a while, because you HAVE to fly on the thin edge to know what to do, and sometimes it catches up to you.
What WILL defeat us in the future furball, is if we get cheap and scared in training.
That is some impressive maneuvering. Tail-sliding backwards without stalling the engines? Wow.
My first thought when I looked at the J-10 was, “Oh, the Chinese built a Eurofighter…”
I told Orville and I told Wilber, this s**t will never work.
Very impressive demo indeed; and a hellava pair o’ hands in the cockpit. That being said, let’s not forget that this is an airshow bird, every bit as lovingly maintained as the “Blues’” Hornets or those Air Force guys’ Lawn Darts. Until the Russians have proven they can properly maintain squadrons of front-line aircraft, this is merely entertainment, impressive, but entertainment.
Remember the line in “The Dirty Dozen” when the private, impersonating a general officer, is inspecting the honor guard: “Very pretty, but can they fight?”
Check Six Ivan!
I can only imagine that the ability to bleed speed and make a quick turn would aid in gaining the advantage at the merge but I would suspect that doctrine would be modified to address this threat.
I used to show this and other similar videos to show capability to my airwing guys usually during recce training or weapons/other briefs. Used to get 2 main reactions. Nuggets would say: I can still smoke him, no problems. The “elders” would go “HMMMM” and ask insightfull questions. Lets not forget the AA-10/11 and a certain Pod. At the same time, as previously mentioned, I’m glad that your average gomer pilot does not get the flight time to get this proficient. But number 1 mistake grasshopper is to underestimate thy enemy.
Hmm…wonder if those cute tricks work at altitude? Assuming that this was all -5000ft AGL.
Hey Lex,
I hotlinked this from your site. Couldn’t find it out there on the web. I don’t get much traffic, but let me know if you want me to take it down. Say the word and it’s gone.
Thanks.
[...] I was just wondering – how does the Raptor compare to the SU-30MK which was also a very cool video to [...]