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	<title>Comments on: The Tillman &#8220;fraud,&#8221; and all that</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/</link>
	<description>The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy!</description>
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		<title>By: Casca</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-73218</link>
		<dc:creator>Casca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/#comment-73218</guid>
		<description>LMAO, oversight?  By this committee?  How does that work exactly?  I mean, these overseers don&#039;t know as much as the last private in the last rank does about the military.

Coverup?  Was the article 32 investigation a fraud?  Did someone have it rewritten?  

The story changed?  Imagine that.  It MUST have been a criminal act.

&quot;The current rush of Congressional hearings is a natural result of a long recess of accountability demands and required checks and balance.&quot;

Really?  Here I thought it was the demoncrats grasping for anything with which to bludgeon the administration, and the warriors in the field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LMAO, oversight?  By this committee?  How does that work exactly?  I mean, these overseers don&#8217;t know as much as the last private in the last rank does about the military.</p>
<p>Coverup?  Was the article 32 investigation a fraud?  Did someone have it rewritten?  </p>
<p>The story changed?  Imagine that.  It MUST have been a criminal act.</p>
<p>&#8220;The current rush of Congressional hearings is a natural result of a long recess of accountability demands and required checks and balance.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really?  Here I thought it was the demoncrats grasping for anything with which to bludgeon the administration, and the warriors in the field.</p>
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		<title>By: Albany Rifles</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-73215</link>
		<dc:creator>Albany Rifles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/#comment-73215</guid>
		<description>2 comments

1.  The entire sad Tillman episodes smacks of fraud on the part of his chain of command.  I could understand incorrect reports in the early days, but there is no excuse for the apparent disregard for the truth his chain of comamnd showed at a later time.  The unseemly awarding of a Silver Star Medal without the due diligence  required for that honor seems to highlight the breakdowns which are coming to light.

2.  My opinion on the entire Jessica Lynch episode has not changed since March 2003.  It is a story of of an abject failure of leadership.  The poor weapons maintenance in the unit is inexcusable, the warran tofficers forgot that the operative word in their title was officer and the unit seemed to have a lot of sergeants but not very many noncommissioned officers.  But this did highlight a systemic problem across the CSS side of the Army which has since been fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2 comments</p>
<p>1.  The entire sad Tillman episodes smacks of fraud on the part of his chain of command.  I could understand incorrect reports in the early days, but there is no excuse for the apparent disregard for the truth his chain of comamnd showed at a later time.  The unseemly awarding of a Silver Star Medal without the due diligence  required for that honor seems to highlight the breakdowns which are coming to light.</p>
<p>2.  My opinion on the entire Jessica Lynch episode has not changed since March 2003.  It is a story of of an abject failure of leadership.  The poor weapons maintenance in the unit is inexcusable, the warran tofficers forgot that the operative word in their title was officer and the unit seemed to have a lot of sergeants but not very many noncommissioned officers.  But this did highlight a systemic problem across the CSS side of the Army which has since been fixed.</p>
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		<title>By: fliterman</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-73111</link>
		<dc:creator>fliterman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/#comment-73111</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m always amazed at how intelligent people can observe the same facts and somehow arrive at such diverse conclusions.  But I am not surprised how people can spread purported blame to their liking, or try to gloss over important issues.

Mistakes happen.  Tragic mistakes happen in the heat of battle.  And as we are all human - and as long as gross negligence is not involved - we can usually accept tragic mistakes. 

However, as is most often the case, it is the cover-up of a mistake that is often the true sin.

The details of the tragic Tillman incident were known early on and an apparent cover-up was initiated.  But what was worse was that a subsequent cover-up was devised to cover the earlier cover-up, compounding the wrongdoing.  

Those that doubt a cover-up should put themselves in the Tillman family&#039;s shoes.  They were given differing and inaccurate, official versions of their son&#039;s demise over the subsequent months and years.   The Tillman&#039;s quite rightly begged for years for a true accounting, eventually resulting in the current hearings.

To allow alleged repetitive cover-ups at multiple levels within the Army, without any true accountability, begins a slippery slope slide far away from the standards of Duty, Honor, and Country.  It is unfortunate that this issue has risen to the level of a Congressional inquiry, but the Army&#039;s obvious bumbling of this issue, and possible underlying criminal cover-ups, make it necessary.  And let it also send the necessary signal, such &quot;official fictions&quot; will not be tolerated.




It also should be noted here that &quot;oversight&quot; is a critical function of Congress.  It is what they (are supposed to) do. And it is a function that has languished for the past few years.  The current rush of Congressional hearings is a natural result of a long recess of accountability demands and required checks and balance.  

The  Tillman/Lynch inquiry may not be the most overriding issue of the day.  But it represents something deeper and more far reaching - renewed accountabililty and oversight.    And that is indeed refreshing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m always amazed at how intelligent people can observe the same facts and somehow arrive at such diverse conclusions.  But I am not surprised how people can spread purported blame to their liking, or try to gloss over important issues.</p>
<p>Mistakes happen.  Tragic mistakes happen in the heat of battle.  And as we are all human &#8211; and as long as gross negligence is not involved &#8211; we can usually accept tragic mistakes. </p>
<p>However, as is most often the case, it is the cover-up of a mistake that is often the true sin.</p>
<p>The details of the tragic Tillman incident were known early on and an apparent cover-up was initiated.  But what was worse was that a subsequent cover-up was devised to cover the earlier cover-up, compounding the wrongdoing.  </p>
<p>Those that doubt a cover-up should put themselves in the Tillman family&#8217;s shoes.  They were given differing and inaccurate, official versions of their son&#8217;s demise over the subsequent months and years.   The Tillman&#8217;s quite rightly begged for years for a true accounting, eventually resulting in the current hearings.</p>
<p>To allow alleged repetitive cover-ups at multiple levels within the Army, without any true accountability, begins a slippery slope slide far away from the standards of Duty, Honor, and Country.  It is unfortunate that this issue has risen to the level of a Congressional inquiry, but the Army&#8217;s obvious bumbling of this issue, and possible underlying criminal cover-ups, make it necessary.  And let it also send the necessary signal, such &#8220;official fictions&#8221; will not be tolerated.</p>
<p>It also should be noted here that &#8220;oversight&#8221; is a critical function of Congress.  It is what they (are supposed to) do. And it is a function that has languished for the past few years.  The current rush of Congressional hearings is a natural result of a long recess of accountability demands and required checks and balance.  </p>
<p>The  Tillman/Lynch inquiry may not be the most overriding issue of the day.  But it represents something deeper and more far reaching &#8211; renewed accountabililty and oversight.    And that is indeed refreshing.</p>
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		<title>By: badbob</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-73095</link>
		<dc:creator>badbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/#comment-73095</guid>
		<description>Great story BigFred! Priceless.

Curt up above brought up those &quot;MS&quot; exams..... 

LOL.

The MS rate is a Mess Specialist. I&#039;m not sure they even have &#039;em anymore, but they were/are sailors whose job was mess cooking and waiting on tables, etc., often for the staffs embarked. The reason their exams were treated like classified material is that Admirals would often let their favorite MS&#039;s see the exams before exam day, IE have the gouge.

That&#039;s why they were locked up. And that&#039;s another bit of ammo to the whole point of what Lex is trying to convey..I think.

b2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great story BigFred! Priceless.</p>
<p>Curt up above brought up those &#8220;MS&#8221; exams&#8230;.. </p>
<p>LOL.</p>
<p>The MS rate is a Mess Specialist. I&#8217;m not sure they even have &#8216;em anymore, but they were/are sailors whose job was mess cooking and waiting on tables, etc., often for the staffs embarked. The reason their exams were treated like classified material is that Admirals would often let their favorite MS&#8217;s see the exams before exam day, IE have the gouge.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why they were locked up. And that&#8217;s another bit of ammo to the whole point of what Lex is trying to convey..I think.</p>
<p>b2</p>
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		<title>By: BigFred</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-73086</link>
		<dc:creator>BigFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/#comment-73086</guid>
		<description>Exams.  I did a very very similar thing as a freshly minted LT(jg) {I prefer the old abbreviation}.  First ship; first real tasking outside my normal job; first major professional screw up (decidedly not the last).  I want to tell you that at the time in world history that this incident happened, the Surface Navy was looking for people to get rid of. That day I learned the meaning of the word apoplectic, as in, &quot;My department Head and the XO were apoplectic over this issue...&quot;  And sent me to see the Old Man.  

Alone.  

Because the Old Man wanted to see me. 

Alone.

The gravity of what had happened having settled in, my head hanging low, I made the long walk forward and up.  Door was open.  Called in.  &quot;Shut the hatch, please, Mr. Big Fred&quot;.  Being offered a seat on the couch, I sat.  He got up, and went into a file drawer and started riffling through some papers.  I assumed he was looking for the paperwork to send me home.  He found a sheet, closed the drawer, and sat down, to my great surprise, next to me on the couch.  He handed me the paper and said &quot;Read this, please.&quot;  My name appeared no where on the flimsy.  His did.  It was a letter of reprimand for leaving a safe open during a firedrill many years ago, when he was an Ensign. I handed it back to him, and he put it on his desk.  he said, &quot;I figure that your DH and the XO have chewed you out enough today, but just to keep up appearences, if anyone asks you, I took you to the woodshed up here tonight, OK?  Please try to be a little more careful when it comes to the careers of the crew from now on.&quot;  And then he explained the substitute exam process to me.

He was the guest speaker at my Cahnge of Command.

Hope springs eternal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exams.  I did a very very similar thing as a freshly minted LT(jg) {I prefer the old abbreviation}.  First ship; first real tasking outside my normal job; first major professional screw up (decidedly not the last).  I want to tell you that at the time in world history that this incident happened, the Surface Navy was looking for people to get rid of. That day I learned the meaning of the word apoplectic, as in, &#8220;My department Head and the XO were apoplectic over this issue&#8230;&#8221;  And sent me to see the Old Man.  </p>
<p>Alone.  </p>
<p>Because the Old Man wanted to see me. </p>
<p>Alone.</p>
<p>The gravity of what had happened having settled in, my head hanging low, I made the long walk forward and up.  Door was open.  Called in.  &#8220;Shut the hatch, please, Mr. Big Fred&#8221;.  Being offered a seat on the couch, I sat.  He got up, and went into a file drawer and started riffling through some papers.  I assumed he was looking for the paperwork to send me home.  He found a sheet, closed the drawer, and sat down, to my great surprise, next to me on the couch.  He handed me the paper and said &#8220;Read this, please.&#8221;  My name appeared no where on the flimsy.  His did.  It was a letter of reprimand for leaving a safe open during a firedrill many years ago, when he was an Ensign. I handed it back to him, and he put it on his desk.  he said, &#8220;I figure that your DH and the XO have chewed you out enough today, but just to keep up appearences, if anyone asks you, I took you to the woodshed up here tonight, OK?  Please try to be a little more careful when it comes to the careers of the crew from now on.&#8221;  And then he explained the substitute exam process to me.</p>
<p>He was the guest speaker at my Cahnge of Command.</p>
<p>Hope springs eternal.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-73063</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/04/25/the-tilman-fraud-and-all-that/#comment-73063</guid>
		<description>Ah, the &quot;life flashed before my eyes&quot; moment.  Reminds me of a time when I was called back to the ship because OPS found a certain safe open...which contained &quot;stuff&quot; and also the advancement exams for the MS&#039;s....the only safe I had that my intel assistants did not have the combo to...

The subsequent evening mentorship by a fine chain of command, led by combat seasoned A-7 flying 4 striper, counseled me humanely, giving me a new appreciation for problem solving and too much &quot;I can do it!&quot; spirit in this case...

Great lead in story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the &#8220;life flashed before my eyes&#8221; moment.  Reminds me of a time when I was called back to the ship because OPS found a certain safe open&#8230;which contained &#8220;stuff&#8221; and also the advancement exams for the MS&#8217;s&#8230;.the only safe I had that my intel assistants did not have the combo to&#8230;</p>
<p>The subsequent evening mentorship by a fine chain of command, led by combat seasoned A-7 flying 4 striper, counseled me humanely, giving me a new appreciation for problem solving and too much &#8220;I can do it!&#8221; spirit in this case&#8230;</p>
<p>Great lead in story.</p>
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