In Flight of the Intruder, Jake Grafton as a JO gets wire-brushed by his CO for attacking an unfragged target. His boss tells him: “What you did was wrong –dead wrong…America will always need the Navy. And the Navy must obey.”

In Final Flight, Grafton is now the CAG. He has hot-shot JOs who want to leave before their committments are up, who are bored or disappointed with their assignments, who think they are smarter than their superiors. He has thought and felt before exactly what they are thinking and feeling.

But now he’s the grown-up and the buck stops with him. He’s seen and done everything that they see from their level. The reverse is not true. That’s when he bluntly tells them all what they still owe to their country. They don’t have to like it. But they will do it. He is not in a position to explain. He is in command.

Like B2 I also meant no disrespect for your command tours.

re- “I had 3 of them for whatever that is worth.”

It is worth a lot Skippy and I by no way demean. In fact, I agree with some of your premises regarding equivalence w/VFA. But that still doesn’t equate with what Yingling was critiquing, IMO, as outlined above. Naval command up to 0-6 ain’t comparable to operational level of war command.

re- “you are saying that we cannot accept ideas and opinions by junior personnel that are critical of the decisions made by their leadership”

I said NO such thing. Unlike some posters above I simply said it was “unseemly”. LTCOL Yingling has created his own “kitchen heat”. Gentile has rebutted quite effectively..it would have been unseemly for a General officer to do the same thing in any forum.

re “By inference you are saying…”

Because the above is wrong this is wrong, too- by inference sorta! EG- I jump all over retired flag/genos wannabees-hasbeens when they write/say something stupid/silly every opportunity I can get! You have a short memory. Plus, being retired myself I think some might say I have been outspoken too. You too. Lexxy too, but with “lightness”. LOL.

re- “Jake Grafton he flew when he was scheduled-he also had low regard for many senior officers who were seen as advancing their own agendas..”

Yep, and basically, that’s why I have several less command tours than you! On the other hand I did know when to shut up and fly wing! A “bad flight” is like “bad sex” and “no flight” is like “no sex! You understand.

Let’s be real here: Every CO has “his” own “agenda”. That’s why it’s called Command, but that agenda must conform to the orders, policies and framework of the service.

Everything else is “unseemly”.

b2

I find it interesting you put my command experience in quotes-is mine somehow less valid than Lex’s? Command is command. I had 3 of them for whatever that is worth.

Regarding Yingling-he published in a military journal. There was a time we prided that kind of thing-I guess that’s no longer a virtue. He did not publish in the Washington Post.

By inference you are saying that we cannot accept ideas and opinions by junior personnel that are critical of the decisions made by their leadership. We are also told that we cannot accept criticism by retired Generals who have served at the operational leve of war and made the same types of decisions-because they are retired and no longer in the arena. Ergo no one can criticize serving military personnel at the flag level.

That’s probably one of the great achievement of the Clark tenure as CNO-all of the “boat rockers” who had genuine respect from the ranks were weeded out slowly and surely. “The company men” who toed the party line were rewarded. Don’t think the junior personnel did not pick up on that subtle message loud and clear.

In the meantime, the rush to the train wreck continues in all the services. When it occurs who will be blamed-no one?

And as for Jake Grafton he flew when he was scheduled-he also had low regard for many senior officers who were seen as advancing their own agendas………….

Jake Grafton had some some simple, clear instructions for his JOs:

“You’ll fly when you’re scheduled. You’ll do as you’re told. You owe that to your country.”

This thread’s gone from discussing two Army 0-5′s, well read who are giving personal anecdotes basically on General officers of the Army to well…I’m not sure…

On the other hand, I am sure that if we weren’t in the midst of the WOT, “Yingling” would still be just beer.

Skippy has personalized his opinion based on his “Command experience” and Lex has countered from his. IMO, both are off the point. The operational level and theater levels of war at the 3/4 star levels is outside their expertise unless they have spent years, not one tour, observing those leaders as COS-level 0-6′s. Fundamentally, that perspective is what is missing LtCol Yingling’s thesis bringing up credibility issues. All LTC Gentile sort of points that out and writes about is that 0-5′s don’t know a lot about General officers and what they do. I agree.

On the other hand Fliterman takes is on the academic type approach and “whole body”. All from books that seem to take on the establishment or seem to be expose’s. He does bring up a seemingly compelling point. IE- The great divide between Naval leadership and JOs during/post Tailhook. As he accurately points out, there was quite a gulf between the two which I can personally vouch for. What is incorrect about that analogy with the “Yingling-Gentile debate”, totally, is that the playing field is radically different. We are at War (WWIII?) today, possibly a generational war, and that makes “sniping” like Yingling did, seem counter productive and unprofessional, to most of us that have been around a bit.

b2