An interesting interview at Salon.com, between a non-observant Muslim scientist and his Western interlocutor.
In October, Malaysia’s first astronaut will join a Russian crew and blast off into space. The news of a Muslim astronaut was cause for celebration in the Islamic world, but then certain questions started popping up. How will he face Mecca during his five daily prayers while his space ship is whizzing around the Earth? How can he hold the prayer position in zero gravity? Such concerns may sound absurd to us, but the Malaysian space chief is taking them quite seriously. A team of Muslim scholars and scientists has spent more than a year drawing up an Islamic code of conduct for space travel.
In case you missed it.
Update: You might as well read Hitchens too.
It’ll be interesting to learn how he plans to wash his feet. Will there be a foot washing station on the space station soon?
Shipmates,
Unbelieveable.
Do they not understand that God is NOT inflexible? Even the most Orthodox Jew understands that it is acceptable to eat pork if one’s life depends upon it.
Jesus is even credited with an admonishment to those who lived literally by the law. He is alledged to have said that “It is not what goes into a man which defiles him, but, rather, that which comes out of him”.
Every religious treatise, except, apparently, the koran, yeaches that it is understood there will be times when strict adherence to the law cannot be made, that sometimes, considtions will occur whereby it is not possible to be a strict observer.
The Gods understand that it is what is in a man’s heart that counts. It is by his deeds that he will be judged.
Islam needs a wake-up call. It needs to understand that the rest of the world will go ahead with or without it, and that the choice is up to Islam.
This sort of pavlovian adherence to the koran will only ensure that Islam never ventures beyond earth. Otherwise, what will Islam consider to be “east” when their ships are light years away? What if the earth is turned away from them when the time for prayers is called? How will that time be calculated as the ship approaches light-speed, and time slows down around it?
This is the 21st century, not the 8th. The koran is filled with outdated dogma that is locked into an ironclad safe by the credo of infallibility. Unless and until it can be accepted that the koran is an interpretation of God’s word, not it’s literal transcription, muslims will be doomed to an archaic and regressive existence.
I had hoped that the world could get beyond such quastions as “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin”. Apparently, for some 3 billion muslims, time has stood still.
Respects,
This illustrates why a Malaysian Muslim is a passenger on a Russian (I.e., Western) spacecraft instead of a Westerner riding in a Muslim spacecraft.
So we could equate the Muslim world with the Pharisees? Or would it be the Sadducees? Or the Essenes? Hmm…
From Matthew 23: “But woe to you, scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites, you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.”
“…So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”
Just 2 of the 8 woes spoken of by Jesus to his disciples. I believe it may be the only time in the Bible where Jesus so thoroughly excoriates the demons in his midst.
Sweet Jesus…a Bible thumping Lex Babe…a truly astounding revelation. Best
We may be Lex Babes, Snake, but we ain’t heathens.
Sheesh.
It will be interesting if Islam ever catches up with modernity.
What happens if you’re to the east of Mecca, can you point yourself west? Or do you have to go the long way ’round east to get your prayers there?
Questions and more questions.
That’s right, Snake Eater, we are complex, many-faceted beings here. Textured, like.
Hey you all… Lex Babes (you know who you are) included…don’t get your knickers in a bunch…some of my best friends are Bible Thumpers and I admire them greatly… just rather not have them living next door to me…strange sounds and bazaar cooking odors… and all that… directly effects property values…and who knows… horror of horrors… one of THEM might want to start dating my daughter (assuming I had one)… Best
Snake – I would never consider myself a “Bible thumper” (not that there’s anything wrong with that…). I grew up in a fundamentalist religion (that I no longer practice), so I’m well versed in Biblical stories, prophesies, etc…and because I have a photographic memory I can recall just about anything I’ve ever heard (gift & curse at the same time).
In truth, it was HF6′s comment about Pharisees that reminded me of the “Woe unto you…” verse. Had to look it up to refresh myself…
As Lex said, we all here are “textured”…in our own unique ways. Some are just more unique than others. ICSFTH
“Many-faceted”…jewel-like, even. I prefer emerald.
Like Kris, I don’t know that I would put myself in the “Bible-thumping” category.
I did not grow up in the church. Personally speaking, I’m a cynic when it comes to organized religion. I prefer spirituality to the concept of modern-day, organized religion having seen organized religion lose sight of its true mission and become nothing more than a business full of judgementals. Not my cuppa tea.
My faith, to me, is an incredibly personal thing and I do not share it easily though many say that, as a Christian, that is my “job”. However I do not want to come across as a “Bible-thumper”. heh
Well, HF6, I prefer garnets — look pretty like rubies, but more affordable.
I too am not a “Bible-thumper” per se; just a prayerful woman who usually keeps it to herself, until egged into otherwise.
Oh well. My secret is out now. ICSFTH
Wow, who knew this would turn into an “out your faith” kind of thread? All thanks to Snake…
Since others are baring their souls … I sound a lot like both Kris and HF6, having been raised as a JW, now practicing no religion and being very cynical of all organized religion. Much as I am of all political parties. That being said, I find politics fascinating and was once called a very spiritual person by a minister of a religion I had no connection with … which I found odd.
My birthstone is a saphire. It suits me just fine, thanks.
I guess I opened up the confessional here with my somewhat allusive post title. One of the things that has always struck me as interesting in my discussions with the secularized on the topic of public and private faith is that their frequent reliance upon some absolute “separation of church and state.” The concept itself is a Western construct whose genesis (those words keep cropping up in the strangest places) itself comes from Jesus’ invocation to render unto Caesar those things which are Caesar’s and rendering unto God those things which are God’s.
It was a revolutionary concept, this notion of that there were separate kingdoms to which a man owed allegiance, the one temporal, the other spiritual. It was not reflected in the Mosaic law of the time, nor among the Romans and Greek civilizations and it is certainly not reflected in the thoroughgoing Koranic injunctions which underpin Sharia law, and which are designed to harness every field of human endeavor, political, civil and economic to the inscrutable will of God – a will frozen in time 14 centuries past.
That one sentence replicated in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke created the intellectual space for man to not only realize that his soul was not and could not be owned by other men (although it took millenia for the “divine right of kings” to be forcefully repudiated) but it also created room for the Enlightenment, Renaissance and the development of the scientific method.
Which in turn results, as butch so succinctly states above, with a Malaysian scientist riding in a Russian spaceship, rather than the other way around.
On such small gems do the fates of civilizations pivot.
BZ, Lex. Excellent point.
Please don’t take my comment # 6 above as anything but a well intentioned accurately targeted, as subsequent comments proved out, snark. Like the scorpion said to the frog…its what I do.
Best
PS, Kris, “more unique”?.
Hmm, Snake. Perhaps the Pedantic Peckerwood Award should go to you?
Just sayin’ …
(snerk)
Hit him again,P-3W
P-3W, Alas… as the originator of the Pedandic Peckerwood Award, I am precluded by the rules, written by me of course, from receiving the award itself…think Alfred Nobel receiving The Nobel Prize for inventing Dynamite…it would be unseemly… its just not done…so like Moses leading the Israelites to the promised land and not being allowed to enter himself…(see know some Bible stuff)… I can award the Pedantic Peckerwood Award to a deserving recepient by not receive it myself…I shall survive. Best
Unkawill, A most un-Christian comment…indeed. Best
HA! Good one SE!
(Now I really have to watch myself around here. Don’t want unseemly notariety, methinks.)
Regards, SE!
I’m not a Christian, but I am a recipient of the Much Coveted PPW, actually the first so honored IIRC!
“PS, Kris, “more unique”?.”
Snake – coming from someone who christened us the Lex Babes and designed the Pedantic Peckerwood Award…just proves my point.
P-3W: I’m all for “unseemly notariety”…makes life interesting. And with snark-kings such as Snake, Unkawill and B2 lurking about, all the more fun and unexpected.
SE ~ my question is to whom was the “Bible-thumping Lex-Babe” comment directed? Kris or myself?
And snark away! I love a good snark. Makes a rotten day a little more enjoyable.
Well,
I read voraciously. I wish I could spell as well as I read, but hey… I’m probably just trying to get the thoughts into print before they take some tangential course into another interesting realm. But I digress.
Personally, I derive great pleasure from debating religious points, philosophies, tenets, etc. Prolly that classical-studies background. I’ve read all of the major religious tomes. If I can’t quote it, i can usually find it somewhere. What I’m getting at is that every religion except for Islam seems to have a means whereby God says “whoa! Step back, take a deep breath. Read the passage again.”
All of these religions are guides for us, advice and checklists. They try to cover all the material, however, like NATOPS, they cannot cover every situation. Except for Islam, they all seem to realise this. In Islam, you don’t have that option to take your best guess. You have your course written down in black and white (and, apparently, sometimes blood).
Reminds me of the old Soviet system which ran everything with a one-size-fits-all concept. Everyone planted crops on May2. Ddidn’t matter if the ground was still frozen. Everyone harvested the crops on the same day. Didn’t matter if some were unripe, or others were rotting in their rows. The law was the law. It was what the state decreed, and the state knew best. Always. Welcome to Sharia.
Anyway, as long as we are self-outing, I’m a Pagan. Not that new-age wicca stuff. I just believe in many Gods. And bourbon. And Naval aviation and the inherent strength of a well-served blue water navy.
Which reminds me… time for a glass.
Respects,
And with snark-kings such as Snake, Unkawill and B2 lurking about, all the more fun and unexpected.
Hey look everybody, I just got promoted, and I didn’t even know I was eligible!
SK1 Unkawill, I like the sound of that. Kris can I put that on my business card?
Goodness, it’s hard to read fast enough to keep up in here now, what with Peckerwood Awards and all. (I’ve been out of circulation since mid-Feb for the most part as the docs tried to re-model my spinal column. Glad to report I’m feeling much better and less pain now.)
Wouldn’t there be some kind of Lifetime Achievement Award in the Peckerwood World for the originator? Kinda like somebody found Waldo in his world?
Tim, I didn’t realize the Koran was considered an “interpretation” of God’s word. What do you mean by that? Which God was Mohammed quoting or interpreting? Some Muslims claim Jesus’ 40 days in the desert was with them, but no substance to that claim is given in our Holy writ.
Raised in a conservative Christian tradition, both father and grandfather were pastors plus many uncles and cousins. Christian is definitely the name of my game, but not without going adrift in need of a stout ship’s line from time to time.
Just glad to be back!
PeterGunn
The vast majority of Jews and Christians believe the Bible to be divinely-inspired. Though there are those who claim that every word is literally true, that is simply not possible. There have been too many translations, too many “revisions” along the way. The Bible was written by human hands, and, as such, must always be considered a fallible document.
The Koran, on the other hand, is considered by Muslims to be the exact words of God, unchallengeable and infallible.
Thus you have one book which lays down a guidleine for life, and another that sets down how you will live your life.
It’s like the philosophies between the Navy & the Air Force vis-a-vis flying. The Navy tells you what you can’t do with your plane, the Air Force tells you what you can do with your plane.
Respects,
Plenty of other muslims have flown, including a Saudi prince on Discovery in the 80s. I think he got some type of dispensation from a cleric.
“The Bible was written by human hands, and, as such, must always be considered a fallible document.”
AW1 Tim – I couldn’t agree more! The Bible was written by men (and possibly a woman or 2) INSPIRED of God. To say that the Bible comes directly FROM God is to bestow a level of righteousness on people who were not necessarily righteous themselves.
As for Muslims believing that their precious Mohammed put down the very words God spoke – is ludicrous to me on a basic level, even outside of any possible Christian beliefs I might have.
God tested Abraham’s faith by asking him to sacrifice his child but NEVER let Abraham do the deed. Does that same God test a Muslim’s faith by insisting they wage Jihad on the unbeliever? How is that possible?
It’s possible, Kris, because it’s NOT the same God, I believe.
It’s a theological discussion that I *really* shouldn’t get into because it’s one of my triggers. ‘Nuff said, I hope.
P-3W… I agree with you! I believe it is NOT the same god too! That was the reason for my questions; to point that out.
I choose to believe in the “inspired Word of God” rather than an interpretation by Mohammed of some other god. Believing in an interpretation as the Word of God is comparable with gold plates found in a field.
Can you say, “false prophet?”
Glad you’re feeling better, PeterGunn, and back with us.
Good intentions do not make a good religion.
I’m just as conflicted with LDS, too. Especially after finding out that Joseph Smith and his family were in on the big scams of the era of digging up fairy gold, or some such. “If you just dig fast enough, you can catch the gold. Honest!” There were run out of many towns before he had the visions of the golden plates and Moroni. Interesting history of his pre-Mormon days. Anyway….
The question was asked by the interviewer: “For centuries, the Christian church had as much control over European culture as Islamic thinkers did over Muslim cultures. And yet science flourished in Europe, starting especially in the 1600s. Why did the scientific revolution happen in Christian Europe and not in the Islamic world?”
Unlike the doctrines of Islam and Christianity, the truths Jesus preached do not inhibit science. As the dichotomy between what Jesus taught and what the Christian church-state alliance said he taught became evident, science flourished. The Protestant revolution plus the invention of the printing press facilitated the spread of Jesus’ true philosophy throughout Europe, and allowed the development of laissez-faire economics, which demolished the prestige of knowledge-inhibiting institutions such as Merchantilsm, guilds, paternalism and restrictionism.