It’s hard to believe that the tinfoil hat brigade could marshal its forces so quickly in the wake of the dKos/Maccabee fiasco. But the story of the Minot-based B-52′s inadvertently taking off with war shot air-launched cruise missiles – while bad enough in itself for those involved – has now been taken as evidence by some on the left that the US plans to use these nuclear weapons in an attack on Iran.
This is seventeen different kinds of crazy. People who would even momentarily contemplate the possibility that the US would start an exchange of hostilities with Iran with nuclear cruise missiles have lost the plot entirely. It’s well past time for them to stop drinking their own bath water.
For a refresher, these are weapons that were due – just as the USAF has claimed – for decommissioning
Meanwhile, the Air Force is starting to take a substantial portion of its nuclear-armed cruise missile fleet out of service. Assigned for delivery by bombers, these cruise missiles fly at subsonic speeds within the atmosphere and can maneuver. The Minuteman III missile travels through space on a ballistic trajectory toward its target.
Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld ordered the Air Force last Oct. 17 to decommission all AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missiles (ACMs) and shrink the force of AGM-86 Air-Launched Cruise Missiles (ALCMs) to 528. Air Force fact sheets from early 2006 reported the service had approximately 460 ACMs and 1,142 ALCMs.
Words fail…
if they were for decommissioning why not carry them on a cargo plane why would it be nessesary to arm a plane with any weapons crossing your own country
We could, of course. We choose not to. On the other side, if they had a usable weapon and a delivery system, they would launch.
We continue to discount the threat to our mortal peril.
Oh, well, What can you say, for the sake of discussion of this event. The bigger problem with this whole situation, is in many people’s minds, perceptions far outweigh hard cold TRUTH. Many people say this, “I’ve already have made up my mind, don’t confuse me with the facts.
Paul, they were obviously never meant to fly on that aircraft to Barksdale. This was probably a proload that went wrong and somehow the warshots get left on the wing. Eventually they’d have gotten moved from their bunker to their decom site.
You know, the weapons were designed to be carried on their weapons mounts – it’s safer than bundling them aboard cargo planes. And it’s worth pointing out that back in the cold war days, 1/3 of SAC was continuously airborne or on alert, carrying those weapons in case the balloon went up. And then returning home to land on their “own country.”
When will the crazies of the far left stop? They reach for anything and everything… and it’s motivated by their mission of hate and ill will for their own country.
This kind of propaganda is dangerous. Dangerous to those of us who believe in our country, what it stands for, and believe in it’s future. After so many, many attempts to dis-credit their own land and patriots, I wonder who’s behind the sedition and exactly what do they want? What will it take to end it for them?
They do seem committed to cheering for the opposing team, don’t they!
Lex,
My father remembers with very unfond memories of doing shape loading exercises onboard many a US carrier, while serving with A-6 squadrons for 22 years. With some sort of captain from an inspection team, a bunch of trigger happy Marines all standing around with either M-14′s or M-16′s, a bunch of people standing all repeating the same item on a checklist. Then after it was all done the WT’s and AO’s unloaded the shape, the Marines formed a circle around the weapon. Where it was escorted to an weapons elevator or an aircraft elevator and taken down to the bay. From there it was escorted with a Marine and either an AO or a WT in constant attendance with it all the way back down to the desginated weapons magazine for the shape. So a whole bunch of someones made serious mistake up in Minot AFB with regards to those shapes.
That being said, I am not totally suprised by the radical left acting the way they did about this. I just remember all the big anti-nuclear movies, TV Mini-series, protests, etc they did when Reagan was president. Remember folks, he was going to stand up to the kindly old Russian Bear the wrong way and take us to our deaths by pushing the big red button. At least according to the left wingers in both the US and Europe.
I predicted yesterday (not here) that by tommorow this would be all a plot by Bush to give those nukes to bin Laden during his visit to Anbar*. Seems the left found a option b) to spin it.
*Obligatory insults omitted.
Sir,
I suspect that the answer here is a lot simpler than anybody imagined. Remember that Barksdale is 8th AF HQ – the Buff and the (presumably inert) missiles were probably on their way there for some kind of higher headquarters dog and pony show. Now, how six live rounds got mistaken for load trainers is another story entirely, but that again is going to turn out to be a surprisingly simple explanation.
Mike Kozlowski
SAC 1978-84
Team Leader: “Note,
“Verify serial number below the sight glass.”
(Two people look on shape, maintaining TPI, both read back serial number. It is logged.)
Each team mbr replies:”Note 1, Note 2, etc”
Team Leader: “Note acknowledged, continue”.
I feel for those folks. Loading those things was tedious, time consuming and fraught with numbing nervousness.
Yoikes!
To the Southern Air Pirate,
Let’s discuss this stereotype: “trigger happy Marines”. Really? How many sailors did you see shot? Or were they just hammering rounds into the sky while they grinned and giggled?
Or is the reality that you had some dead serious Marines, assigned to stand guard with live weapons, as part of the protocol for the exercise?
Semper Fidelis,
ASM826
Lots of heads will roll, to be sure. That kind of thing doesn’t happen because one knucklehead makes a mistake. If you haven’t already, I recommend reading the first hundred or so pages in A Glimpse of Hell about the error chain that resulted in the IOWA mishap. It’s really scary how many people screwed up badly.
The moonbat reaction is completely predictable, though.
I worked nuke security while I was in the Air Force. I was stunned to see that not just one weapon but six were mishandled. Nukes are the most closely-guarded item in the U.S.
One of our “let’s pretend” training scenarios was, “Suppose that terrorists are holding both a nuclear weapon and the President hostage in the same location. What is the first thing you do?”
The answer was, “Call the Vice-President and tell him that he’s about to get a promotion.”
In other words, retake that weapon at all costs.
The security is layered so, although the squadron commander was ultimately responsible and was fired, there is plenty of blame to go around among a very large group of people. You just won’t hear the particulars because doing so would pull the curtain back on the security procedures normally observed.
Cap’n,
“I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons on ” was a phrase I endlessly repeated.
Of course, when a platoon of Marines escorts a railway flatcar loaded with those grey containers one does begin to wonder.
One does need to wonder how the package was generated. Seems they would have kept and checked serial numbers or something.
Lex, Iran said they wanted Nukes!!!
decommissioned, expended….
mere semantics.
Web Reconnaissance for 09/06/2007…
A short recon of whats out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often….
Senior D,
Yep – I was told, by a couple of Marine’s off the Long Beach that I hung out with during the ’88 RIMPAC, that it was easy to figure out which ships had the nukes. Just look for the Marines in full battle rattle on deck. You could generally isolate down what weapons system (Tomahawk, normally) also had them by where the Marines were.
AMS826,
Right on re your comments to SAP. Whenever we had loading exercises or even pre launch drills(GREENHOUSE,GREENHOUSE, man your GREENHOUSE battle stations) we had but one armed marine and our loading PO escorting the weapon from the SAS spaces. The two man rule was always in force. The load team consisted of 6 men and an officer from the squadron. It was serious stuff and we practiced way too much. This was before Vietnam. The only error I ever saw a marine make was one young troop wanted to run alongside an A-4 as it was taxied forward toward the cat. We caught him and explained his job was done till the off load.
Man, I wish I had this Bush Power. Just by existing he makes people go insane. If he talks they are insane and run around in small circles. Now if I could just channel this correctly….
Shipmates,
This might help put this particular situation into more perspective:
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Almanac/Brokenarrows.shtml
In the great scheme of things, it t’aint that bad. There are still seome weapons from earlier incidents we haven’t found…..
Respects,
ASM826,
I didn’t mean to insult the MarDets or you when I commented on the trigger happy thing. It was just explained to me by my father that they were deadly serious about their jobs. To the point they nearly always seemed ready to shoot first and ask questions later.
I have never personally dealt with MarDets or shapes nor the various inspections or exercises, so I don’t know how it goes. Only how it has been explained to me by my father and various other family friends who use to be involved in those sort of things.
S.A. Pirate,
Things typed in comments often come off in ways unintended. There is no way to see a gesture, a smile, or hear the inflection in someone’s voice.
My comments are as subject to this problem as anyone else’s. I was looking for some humor in my reply, so show the absurdity of calling men who never pulled the trigger “trigger happy”, and perhaps failed to achieve it.
Semper Fidelis,
ASM826
I can neither confirm nor deny that nuke’s are present, except for all the Devel Dogs running around.
Well thats funny, I don’t recall seeing any on my Frigate, when we were doing all that incessant Asroc Handeling Detail practice which I can niether confirm nor deny.
Is it BS to wonder how a nuclear weapon winds up flying to
1. the wrong base for decommissioning
2. treated as if it was just a conventional weapon not a first srike weapon.
3. that it was not just one mistake but six.
Also please note we just received a new Bin Laden Tape please note the tape makes a few interesting things first off they blackened his beard to make the tape look newer than previous ones. Second notice he talks about a lot of things then when he mentions the latest news to prove the timeliness of the tape the picture freezes? and lastly we are told by the MSM CNN FauxNews etc that the tape is genuine! It looks like someone pulled and old tape of him and redid it then put in words over the frozen parts to link him to Democratic policies. Use your brains This looks like a setup to support the Bush Endless War on terror Which makes huge profits for his family see Carlye Group headed by George H W Bush they have big investnements in defense industries that have been making a killing since the start of the war on terror. Also do a Google search and read up on Gen Smedley Butler two time CMOH winner and see who he says runs the show also note the BBC did a show on how Prescott Bush tried to overthrow FDR in the 1930′s seems our president’s family has a lot of dealings with those who profit from war making including working with the Nazis even after war was declared in the 40′s.
I did twenty years defending this country and did some work I can not talk about I know that it is impossible to just accidentally load a Nuke on a B52 to many safe guards in place to allow that to happen unless the caliber of personnel in the Air Force is now run by people like the C Avg president who quit the NG in the middle of his term. Lastly what happened to PRP did they throw that out the window along with our moral authority the Bill of Rights and the Geneva Conventions! I have seen a lot of posts on liberal sites that describe the impossibility of the B52 incident and these are by Democratic servicemen who actually served their country and know what they are talking about as far as security is concerned. see http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/07/09/03/may.htm
and http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×1769053
The last thing we need right now is another war in the Middle east yet the same people that gave us Iraq are now giving us the same excuses to invade or just nuke Iran!
To answer your questions at the top of the post, no it is by no means BS to ask those questions. Those are perfectly sensible questions to ask.
To beg the question of whether these ACMs were somehow intended to be transported from Minot to Barksdale and then beamed over to Tehran is, however, to take leave of one’s senses. Especially since it was the Air Force itself who detected this buffoonery and placed themselves on report for it.
As for the rest of your comment, I’ll refer you to the title of this post and thank you for providing a demonstration. We even got the Carlyle Group and Nazi Germany.
Here’s your sign.
So I’m unhinged since I don’t trust the resident in the White House to protect my country the constitution and my family ? I would challenge you sir to investigate those things look at the BBC website and see the story on Prescott Bush if it was not true don’t you think the Bush family would be suing them for Slander?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml
The coup was aimed at toppling President Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse & George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression.
Mike Thomson investigates why so little is known about this biggest ever peacetime threat to American democracy.
And I would add just remember the last speech as President from a five star General it gives all the justification needed to not trust the powers that be
http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html
Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961
Public Papers of the Presidents, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960, p. 1035- 1040
My fellow Americans:
Three days from now, after half a century in the service of our country, I shall lay down the responsibilities of office as, in traditional and solemn ceremony, the authority of the Presidency is vested in my successor.
This evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell, and to share a few final thoughts with you, my countrymen.
Like every other citizen, I wish the new President, and all who will labor with him, Godspeed. I pray that the coming years will be blessed with peace and prosperity for all.
Our people expect their President and the Congress to find essential agreement on issues of great moment, the wise resolution of which will better shape the future of the Nation.
My own relations with the Congress, which began on a remote and tenuous basis when, long ago, a member of the Senate appointed me to West Point, have since ranged to the intimate during the war and immediate post-war period, and, finally, to the mutually interdependent during these past eight years.
In this final relationship, the Congress and the Administration have, on most vital issues, cooperated well, to serve the national good rather than mere partisanship, and so have assured that the business of the Nation should go forward. So, my official relationship with the Congress ends in a feeling, on my part, of gratitude that we have been able to do so much together.
(snip)
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
(snip)
I would also suggest that you view the movie Why We Fight
a trailer is available here and it is for rent at Blockbuster and other video stores
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf1CDmn8q0M
You will hear his children say he wanted to say more in that speech but was cautious. Also look into the fact that he was kept from stopping the arms race with the Soviet Union by the U2 Incident after he directed the intelligence assets to stop those overflights to start a process of peacemaking with Khrushchev but his efforts failed due to rouge elements in the government he could not control look it up and you might have a Smedley Butler moment too! Have you ever been to Camp Butler in Okinawa? I used to shop at the AAFES main exchange their last century he was a true leader not a wannabe like the guy in the white house who could not even finish a mere six years with the TXANG. On a side note isn’t it funny that they have AAFES at Marine Corps base? Do some research and you too can be a Patriot like the person that blew the whistle to the military times about the B52 screwup or we probably never would have heard about it.
I’m not going to argue with you bud. A stranger passing by might not be able to tell the difference.
My, my Lex. How did you draw him in here? What an imagination he has.
Subsunk out.
I was a nuclear loading officer who only loaded “shapes”. The real thing always had company.