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	<title>Comments on: Pistol packin&#8217; padres</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/</link>
	<description>The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy!</description>
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		<title>By: Zane</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/comment-page-1/#comment-462978</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/#comment-462978</guid>
		<description>Since this old thread is being resurrected, I&#039;ll add that in the USN (at least) we have Religous Professionals, many of whom are the most sacreligious men you&#039;ll ever meet, who follow the unarmed padre around while themselves swaddled in battle rattle and armed to the teeth, trained in &quot;defensive&quot; driving and in sniffing out the surroundings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since this old thread is being resurrected, I&#8217;ll add that in the USN (at least) we have Religous Professionals, many of whom are the most sacreligious men you&#8217;ll ever meet, who follow the unarmed padre around while themselves swaddled in battle rattle and armed to the teeth, trained in &#8220;defensive&#8221; driving and in sniffing out the surroundings.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael G.</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/comment-page-1/#comment-462973</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/#comment-462973</guid>
		<description>Everone has at ALL times both a right and an abligation to defend  his life with deadly force if necessary to preserve  his life.  THAT includes men of God, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everone has at ALL times both a right and an abligation to defend  his life with deadly force if necessary to preserve  his life.  THAT includes men of God, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: FbL</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/comment-page-1/#comment-417847</link>
		<dc:creator>FbL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/#comment-417847</guid>
		<description>Thought-provoking comments, MajHarvey... I think you may be right because it seems that &quot;men/women of the cloth&quot; and warriors have two different roles in this world.  

One is not morally superior/inferior to the other, but they don&#039;t usually co-exist in one individiual (consecutively some warriors become chaplains and vice-versa, obviously).  I think of God telling David that he was a man of war and thus could not build His temple.  Instead, David&#039;s son would be the man known as the man of peace and religion (of course, the kicker is that God still called David a &quot;man after my own heart&quot;).  So, it seems to me there&#039;s a lot to be said for keeping the roles separate...

My father served in Vietnam as a medical tech, and a very religious man; he refused to carry a weapon and went on to a life as a minister.  He had the utmost respect for those who fought and killed when necessary, but he believed that was not his calling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought-provoking comments, MajHarvey&#8230; I think you may be right because it seems that &#8220;men/women of the cloth&#8221; and warriors have two different roles in this world.  </p>
<p>One is not morally superior/inferior to the other, but they don&#8217;t usually co-exist in one individiual (consecutively some warriors become chaplains and vice-versa, obviously).  I think of God telling David that he was a man of war and thus could not build His temple.  Instead, David&#8217;s son would be the man known as the man of peace and religion (of course, the kicker is that God still called David a &#8220;man after my own heart&#8221;).  So, it seems to me there&#8217;s a lot to be said for keeping the roles separate&#8230;</p>
<p>My father served in Vietnam as a medical tech, and a very religious man; he refused to carry a weapon and went on to a life as a minister.  He had the utmost respect for those who fought and killed when necessary, but he believed that was not his calling.</p>
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		<title>By: MajHarvey</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/comment-page-1/#comment-417839</link>
		<dc:creator>MajHarvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 20:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/#comment-417839</guid>
		<description>As for chaplains - of which I am studying to become one - this issue was raised and discussed at Chaplain School.  For us, it&#039;s not a matter of the Geneva Convention, or Title 10, U.S. Code, or anything else.  It&#039;s simply that the head chaplains of each service have agreed - and continue to agree - that carrying and/or using weapons (whether in training or in combat) runs contrary to our mission and purpose as chaplains.

I have heard of cases in OIF wherein a chaplain (usually a former combat arms soldier/officer) has elected to arm himself and join the fight, but the inevitable result was that his ministry among his unit suffered.  Somehow, the troops couldn&#039;t quite reconcile the fact that the Padre was actually capping people.

For myself, I look at it thusly:
I know what the policy is, and I voluntarily agree to abide by it.  Having said that, I also know that there are times when an exception to policy is called for, be they few and far between.
So if I&#039;m back at the casualty collection point caring for one of my wounded troops, and Johnny Jihad comes around the corner pointing his AK at us - would I shoot him?  I think yes, I probably would.  And would sleep well knowing that I had saved a life even if it meant I had to move on and do something different after that.

Other than that, I can think of durned few scenarios when use of deadly force - though authorized - would be appropriate for a chaplain.  Stories abound in which chaplains walk the mean streets of Iraq and Afghanistan armed with nothing more than a smile - and it has a profound effect on the troops to see them in that environment.

It bears repeating that one has to keep one&#039;s mission clearly in focus - not for me any longer the taking of life, but the saving of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for chaplains &#8211; of which I am studying to become one &#8211; this issue was raised and discussed at Chaplain School.  For us, it&#8217;s not a matter of the Geneva Convention, or Title 10, U.S. Code, or anything else.  It&#8217;s simply that the head chaplains of each service have agreed &#8211; and continue to agree &#8211; that carrying and/or using weapons (whether in training or in combat) runs contrary to our mission and purpose as chaplains.</p>
<p>I have heard of cases in OIF wherein a chaplain (usually a former combat arms soldier/officer) has elected to arm himself and join the fight, but the inevitable result was that his ministry among his unit suffered.  Somehow, the troops couldn&#8217;t quite reconcile the fact that the Padre was actually capping people.</p>
<p>For myself, I look at it thusly:<br />
I know what the policy is, and I voluntarily agree to abide by it.  Having said that, I also know that there are times when an exception to policy is called for, be they few and far between.<br />
So if I&#8217;m back at the casualty collection point caring for one of my wounded troops, and Johnny Jihad comes around the corner pointing his AK at us &#8211; would I shoot him?  I think yes, I probably would.  And would sleep well knowing that I had saved a life even if it meant I had to move on and do something different after that.</p>
<p>Other than that, I can think of durned few scenarios when use of deadly force &#8211; though authorized &#8211; would be appropriate for a chaplain.  Stories abound in which chaplains walk the mean streets of Iraq and Afghanistan armed with nothing more than a smile &#8211; and it has a profound effect on the troops to see them in that environment.</p>
<p>It bears repeating that one has to keep one&#8217;s mission clearly in focus &#8211; not for me any longer the taking of life, but the saving of it.</p>
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		<title>By: thebastidge</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/comment-page-1/#comment-417840</link>
		<dc:creator>thebastidge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/#comment-417840</guid>
		<description>The rules have become quite sticky for any civilian carrying a weapon. If you&#039;re not in a job with a title that includes &quot;security&quot; then it&#039;s problematic to be carrying a sidearm in Iraq.

As any thinking person would probably agree, this is BS. Especially when the soldiers are not only allowed, but *required* to carry their weapon and a magazine everywhere they go, even inside a FOB compound, indeeed even into the DFAC or embassy palace. 

If it is so dangerous that soldiers should not be outside arm&#039;s reach of a weapon, then it&#039;s so dangerous that no American should be. Yet I am disarmed by policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rules have become quite sticky for any civilian carrying a weapon. If you&#8217;re not in a job with a title that includes &#8220;security&#8221; then it&#8217;s problematic to be carrying a sidearm in Iraq.</p>
<p>As any thinking person would probably agree, this is BS. Especially when the soldiers are not only allowed, but *required* to carry their weapon and a magazine everywhere they go, even inside a FOB compound, indeeed even into the DFAC or embassy palace. </p>
<p>If it is so dangerous that soldiers should not be outside arm&#8217;s reach of a weapon, then it&#8217;s so dangerous that no American should be. Yet I am disarmed by policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim C</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/comment-page-1/#comment-417841</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/2007/11/21/pistol-packin-padres/#comment-417841</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s one of many reasons that I don&#039;t think I could ever do an embed as a blogger. If caught in a fight with the Taliban/AQ I would want to be armed. From what I know, the military doesn&#039;t allow reporter/bloggers to carry sidearms. These men and women have enough to do without worrying about protecting me.

Now, I will say that if I was there and if push came to shove, I would &lt;em&gt;find&lt;/em&gt; a weapon to defend myself and as many of my fellow countrymen as I could. Something about better judged by 12 than carried by 6...

Jim C</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s one of many reasons that I don&#8217;t think I could ever do an embed as a blogger. If caught in a fight with the Taliban/AQ I would want to be armed. From what I know, the military doesn&#8217;t allow reporter/bloggers to carry sidearms. These men and women have enough to do without worrying about protecting me.</p>
<p>Now, I will say that if I was there and if push came to shove, I would <em>find</em> a weapon to defend myself and as many of my fellow countrymen as I could. Something about better judged by 12 than carried by 6&#8230;</p>
<p>Jim C</p>
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