Yesterday certain of the usual suspects were using excerpts from former White House press secretary Scott McClellan forthcoming book to gleefully argue that the president not only knew about Scooter Libby’s role in the Valerie Plame “outing”, but that he had a direct role in propagating a deception.
Grand juries were wished for, and the scent of – wait for it – impeachment was once again in the air. It was Merry Fitzmas come again, but in November!
Today? Not so much.
Former White House spokesman Scott McClellan does not believe President Bush lied to him about the role of White House aides I. Lewis Scooter Libby or Karl Rove in the leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame’s identity, according to McClellan’s publisher.
Peter Osnos, the founder and editor-in-chief of Public Affairs Books, which is publishing McClellan’s book in April, tells NBC from his Connecticut home that McCLellan, “Did not intend to suggest Bush lied to him.”
The poor, dear things. So often have they raised up hopes, only to have them cruelly disappointed.
Oh, well: Nothing for it but to try, try again.
Ha, “Merry Fitzmas ” – I love it!
Well, have a great holiday yourself!
so, if scott didn’t mean the president lied, who was he referring to in the quote? either way it looks like the white house is full of bumbling morons, doesn’t it? i am a conservative but these guys, Bush included, give us all a bad name.
so does your dumb snark. try writing an article where you actually analyze something. you make us look like a bunch of children.
Too bad the Lefty’s and their Congress don’t show as much determination for something worthwhile. Together, we might do great things.
Oooh, Jeff. You tell him. I’ve been reading this, this, “Lex” guy for some time now. Did you know he went to the Naval Academy? We all know about those guys… (sorry, inside joke.)
Just a bit of a etiquette lesson fer ya: Before you come to a place like this and show your ass, at least read a bit of what is written. You say you are a conservative, but you talk a lot like a “Kos”er.
But, if you want to pick a fight with our host, by all means feel free. It is a gunbattle of wits and I’m guessing you brought along your mental knife. I’m gonna get a Sierra Nevada, pop some corn, and watch the fun.
Nose
PS The “Shift” key is outside your pinkies and down a bit. Try it, you might like it.
Hi Jeff. The words in blue fonts with underlines are called “hyperlinks.” If you run your mouse cursor over them and click, they’ll lead you to the full article from which the block quote above was cited. Reading to the end will help you answer all your little questions.
There now – you may still feel like a child (and type like one too) but at least you’ll have the whole internet to help you become much, much smarter!
So get going, l’il buckaroo!
Lex,
Thanks for going easy on Jeff. Why chase him off after only one comment, let’s see if he’ll stay around a while – I need a good laugh leading into the long holiday weekend.
“So get going, l’il buckaroo!”
Too funny.
Hope you & yours have a great Thanksgiving Lex.
I think that fella should have met my father. Dad would have told him it’s far better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool. than to open it and remove all doubt.
Lex!!!
Good to see you up and running, full of right leaning piss and vinegar, and those great fly boy stories… Last I checked in (around the 28th of October) you were in a forced evacuation from your home because of the San Diego fires and I was on my way to the dark and evil continent (the one whose currency is going up, while ours is going down).
Not too many hot wires in the areas of Italy that my daughter dragged us around (north of Bergamo in the lake region, and a week on the island of Elba), so I have no idea what happened to you, but judging from the few posts I have scanned, it seems that your home escaped the fire without damage – if so, I rejoice with you…
I’ll take a small bite out of the apple. It strikes me that what my pappy told me holds in this case: “Your are better of being lucky, than smart”…
The big guys were unlucky. John Ashcroft had resigned as the AG, and in his place was an acting AG, unfortunately a rather straight arrow conservative. The CIA, probably a bit ticked at the way the White House was dumping on them saw a window of opportunity, and asked Justice to investigate the outing of one of its covert agents. The CIA had no choice; the big boys for political reasons were publicly eviscerating a covert agent, not quite a moral booster for their covert troops.
The acting AG looked around Justice and saw that it was kind of becoming filled with some brown shirts, folks who raised the party above the rule of law… The acting straight arrow AG decided he needed a strait arrow independent counsel, enter Patrick Fitzgerald. Talk about bad luck, just a 3 month delay, and that pillar of integrity, Alberto Gonzales would have been supervising the investigation!!!
The rest is history… The career and lives of two government employees savaged and wreaked, Joe Wilson of the State Department, and his wife, Valery Plame of the CIA. What shall we call them, casualties of war, or collateral damage? By now you have to be a true believer, running on the toxic fuel of faith, not to concede that the VP, Carl Rove, and others were involved in the outing of Ms. Plame. How much Bush was involved is a silly question, when he partially pardoned Scoter Libby he answered that query.
Got to tell you its good to see you up and running Lex, pardon the length of this post, I thought a little bit of history might help – what bad luck, good old Fredo could have swept this whole problem under the rug!!!
Looks like someone is just askin’ for a beat down. What say we frustrate him by not giving it?
O Paul
You might well spit the apple out. Ms Plame wasn’t covert, and her husband was lying like a rug. The remainder would have been farce save the presence of Sandy Berger.
Cheers
It’s so sad the Jeffy got a “down” on his first hop. His instructor sent him back to read the manual and maybe he’ll take Nose’s advice and use the “simulator” instead of posting another comment right away… and yet, it would be so much fun to see another! Go for it, if you’ve got the stones, Jeffy.
As for the book, “tell-tales” is what they do. Some of us would call them “sea-stories” around here and we all know how they grow… and grow with age.
Hearing the Less Nessman re-run of the WKRP turkey drop in the parking lot had more merit than all of the “tell-alls” put together. I hope a roasted Tom falls into place on everyone’s table… Happy Thanksgiving!
Our Paul,
Interesting narrative, but seems a bit fanciful.
None of the people you list actually leaked Ms. Plame’s name – it was done by Richard Armitage, no friend of the administration’s Iraq strategy. Even an aggressive prosecution by Patrick Fitzgerald failed to find anything other than a misremembered conversation between Mr. Libby and a reporter.
Personally, I’d be a lot happier if the CIA would just spy on our enemies, and leave the DC politics to the elected officials.
The thought … smarmy little lower case piss-ant came to mind… as I read jeffs comment…not a pleasant thought on this fine Turkey Day. Best
OP, thanks for your kind words when last we spoke, as I was heading out the door with family in tow. I hope you have a very happy Thanksgiving.
As for the rest of your comment, well: There are all kinds of true believers in the world, aren’t there? You have your summary of events, and I have Joe Wilson: A self-important blowhard sent forward – by his CIA agent wife – on an important mission of state. Absent evidence of what it was he was specifically sent to seek he imputed first a general evidence of absence and then inferred ill will.
“Who is this guy,” the question rose on the day of that NYT editorial, “And how did we send him thither?”
He’s a foreign service officer, and Clinton-era ambassador to the powerhouse countries of Gabon, Sao Tome and Principe, came the answer. He was sent thither by his wife, a WMD specialist at Langley.
Why would he write that the Vice President had seen his briefing when that was not true? For that we have no answer.
Why would he deny – serially – that it was his wife who sent him to Niger shores when that was true? For that we have no answer.
Is is true that his findings tended do discredit our evidence of Saddam’s regime attempting to purchase Uranium yellowcake from Niger? No, the intelligence community consensus was that his findings actually strengthened the case against the Iraqi regime.
Is it true that he has called us liars for our claim that Saddam did attempt to seek yellowcake in Niger? Yes, he did call us liars, before later admitting that while it would be difficult to actually purchase yellowcake from Niger, he had no way of knowing whether or not Saddam sought to purchase it. Before admitting, in other words, that he had debunked nothing. (Only the first in what was to be a long list of strawman erections and demolitions that continue to this day.)
So, then, a serial liar and a partisan hack, rather than 21st century Diogenes? Just so.
Very well – game on, gloves off. Life in the big city.
And the rest, as they say, is history. Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame as plaster saints, Scooter Libby as convicted felon, having been caught out remembering things differently than a reporter during a special prosecutor’s investigation that immediately found the source of the original leak – his chartered task – but never, over the course of a 22-month long empanelment, found evidence of any other crime associated with that leak.
Politics is a blood sport, although it used to be that there were foul lines drawn at the water’s edge. And we wonder why there are so few of real quality that seek to serve.
If I knew I was going to get screwed like Scooter Libby did, there’s no way I would choose to serve. Why go through the headaches. Why put your family through the headaches?
As far as Joe Wilson and his wife? Liars, both of them…
Hope you all have a great Thanksgiving!
Jim C
Pitts:
Nice come back, got to learn how to keep it short and sweet. Actually, I was shaking the old apple tree to draw a bit of that refined friendly fire away from Jeff and just to see if all the juicy urban legends were still circulating around.
Quite right, it was Richard Armitage who passed on Ms. Plame to the self styled “Prince of Darkness”. Novak in turn went to Rove for confirmation, neither realizing that Ms. Plane was covert. With that step, the inner circle started to form. The urban legends surrounding our peerless leader had to be preserved, and if possible expanded. To a remarkable degree they succeeded. A solid 35 to 40% of the populace clings to the fable that Sadam had WMD, and as J.M. Heinrichs so elegantly demonstrates, the fairy tail that Joe Wilson was lying, and that Ms. Plane was not covert persists.
Actually my father would have come to the conclusion that not only were these guys unlucky, they were not very smart. They believed their own bete noir, the liberal press. While the press was trumpeting what a straight arrow Patrick Fitzgerald was, he was quietly signaling that no final report would be forth coming and to convict on the charges of releasing a covert agents name one had to show malice, and the intent to harm CIA operations…
The smoke signals could not have been clearer, everybody gets off scot-free, no final report, just don’t lie to the grand jury. After three tries, Carl Rove got the message – you can’t lie to the grand jury. On the fourth try he spilled just enough beans to escape indictment. Scoter took a chance, and feel on his sword – the VP’s sterling reputation as a straight shooter was not be besmirched.
And thus a new legend arises. Scoter had just a couple of “memory lapses” during his grand jury testimony, perjury did not actually occur… And, when a jury of his peers convicts on 3 counts of perjury, it’s all about misremembered conversations. And then, all the great Law and Order types in a series of letters to the judge, crown Scoter as a Saint, who inadvertently stumbled.
What ever Scott McClellan has in his book will be meaningless, he knows what side of his bread is buttered. The publisher wanted a little buzz, and got it – the right and the left blogospher lit up. We can expect more of the same as the April ‘08 publications approaches. Shall we declare a truce, and frustrate the money grubbing publisher?
Game time, and turkey time to follow… Have a good one guys, and remember, its the red juice of the vine that is good for your heart. Marine6 I love your aphorism, mind if I use it in the future?
You’ve got quite a future in alternative fiction, if ever whatever it is you’re doing now doesn’t pan out. The talent to peer inside men’s hearts and divine their true motivations is a rare enough gift, and not many are so brave as to publicly share it with others.
McClellan won’t get my money either, though, for what that’s worth.
Red, red wine, that’s where my money goes. That and villainous companions.
re- “savaged and wreaked, Joe Wilson of the State Department, and his wife, Valery Plame of the CIA.”
Then. What Lex said. LOL. Living the good lib-life in Sante Fe.
Still clinging here I reckon. I ain’t over the BJs in the Oval Office, right?
Happy Thanksgiving all. The Packers are for real, and oh yeah, go UCONN!
b2
Note to Our Paul … Valerie Plame was not “covert,” when this stupid kerfuffle started. She had maybe been a “field agent” at one time [that's what they're called, OP] more than seven years before the stink started, but she returned to the states to have babies, working as an analyst at Langley, sitting on her duff in an office five days a week and, um, analyzing stuff from the newspapers. In the civilian world, we call that “going to the office.”
You may not realize this, but the CIA probably has more than 100,000 employees, at Langley and in the field. Keeping them all a “secret” would be an impossibility in the leak-prone world of Washington.. When Richard Nixon was President, he once said, irritatedly, “I’ve got 40,000 people at Langley, sitting on their duffs and reading newspapers…”
So let’s be realistic, OP. Valerie was not “covert,” she was an office worker, who is now trying to pump up publicity for the movie about her imaginary life that Hollywood is making. If you buy into that, I’ve got a lovely bridge in New York you might want to buy as well. If you’re interested, call my agent.
Marianne Matthews
Lex and others
I have a major problem. I have a horrendous cold, chest, nose, sinuses, and ears a popping. My writing and thinking is down to a worms crawl (I know, I left my self wide open). Just a couple of points, then I have to close down:
(1) It was the CIA that classified Valerie Plame as a covert agent in its referral to the Department of Justice (DOJ). That referral was reviewed by DOJ as to validity (was Plame covert, was her cover blown) before any investigation could begin. DOJ decided that Valeri Plame was covert, based on the information submitted.
(Strikes me that Ms. Matthews and others on this blog are kicking the wrong dog. Its not me they have to discredit, it is the CIA and DOJ. The CIA for its original referral, DOJ for on review, accepting that Ms. Plame was covert).
(2) Joe Wilson poses a more difficult problem, you have to battle your way through allot of smoke and urban legends do get your hands around the story. Start with yellow cake (low grade uranium concentrate that has to be significantly enriched to be of any use). The Italian Secrete Service passed on to the CIA a series of documents (with a warning that they were bogus) allegedly showing that Sadam was seeking yellow cake from Niger.
Despite CIA warnings that this information was probably bogus, it appeared in a State of the Union address (the famous 17 words) and was subsequently repeatedly advanced as proof that Sadam was seeking the A-Bomb (Condi Rices’ mushroom cloud metaphors, and the big guy from Montana)).
(Here you can digress, and pose the following question: Did Sadam have a WMD program that included A-Bomb potential? If yes, you have to present some proof, if no, you have the UN inspectors’ reports, and those reports submitted by on the US ground inspectors. There is no evidence that Sadam had an active A-Bomb program.)
Joe Wilson goes the Niger, returns, and writes a report stating that the claim Sadam was seeking yellow cake was bogus. The report disappears into the bowls of the CIA…
Six months later, Joe Wilson goes public with the yellow cake story.
Let’s put this bug to bed. The central issue with Joe Wilson is not the mud that folks have pelted him with, its whether his column in the Times was accurate. And that one is straightforward, either Sadam had an active A-Bomb weapons program or he did not. As for Valeri, it’s kind of ridiculous to argue her “covert” status, when the CIA and DOJ classify her as such…
After a hard slog across a reasonable body of water, after the sails have been flaked and tied down, after the anchor has been set, its rum laced with fresh lemon juice. A few sugar cubs, and splash of boiling hot water – I’ll go for the villainous companions, but could we have one or two guys who can spin a good shaggy dog story?
Oh, geez. I don’t have time to list everything, and it’s too late for my sleepy brain, anyway. But here’s the one that jumped out at me:
The Yellowcake claim in the SOTU was NOT based on an Italian report. As the text of the speech itself indicates, it was based on findings by the British, findings that — to this day — the British still stand behind.
And one more thing… read what the bi/non-partisan panel investigating 9-11 had to say about Wilson. It’s not complimentary, nor does it substantiate the story he’s now peddling (and which you apparently believe).
Okay, got sucked into more:
As for Valeri, it’s kind of ridiculous to argue her “covert” status, when the CIA and DOJ classify her as such…
Listen to/read Fitzgerald’s press conference after the findings. IIRC, he refuses to discuss or verify Plame’s status, which many onlookers found quite striking. In fact, I think he went so far as to say he said he didn’t even investigate wither or not she was actually covert (Yeah, it’s late and I’m too freakin’ tired to look it up. It’s not too hard to find when one’s eyes aren’t crossing, though). It’s hard to call that a DOJ classification of her as covert…
re- “its whether his column in the Times was accurate.”
Yeah. It was all lies, self-righteous indignation and politics. Sorta like you’re playing with your innuendo and hyperbole on your other ‘flamer’ assertions. A conspiracy behind every Bush mentality, I calls it. In medicine it is called B.D.S.- heavy on da “D”.
It’s all ’bout the politics, Paul, right? Feed your baloney sandwich to those ‘victimized’ folks at Kos. We’re a bunch of Clingers here! Clinging to the facts that is.
b2
As for the so-called “perjury” charge. You have a basic he said / he said here. The reporter (who also had memory lapses) said one thing was said / Scooter remembered something else. Then you have a jury several of whose members said openly after the trial that they didn’t really think Scooter was guilty, but since Rove / Cheney / Bush weren’t charged, Scooter the Scapegoat would do.
Rule #1: When asked anything, including the color of the sky, take the Fifth. And forget about “qualified immunity:” Sorry, but unless you immunize me from perjury charges too, I’m afraid that anything I say can be made into “incriminating” testimony.