In Sudan, British citizen and teacher Gillian Gibbons has been convicted by a court and sentenced to 15 days in jail before being deported:
A court in Sudan on Thursday found a British teacher guilty of inciting religious hatred by allowing her class to name a teddy bear “Mohammed” and sentenced her to 15 days in prison and deportation, her defense laywer (sic) told CNN.
The court in Khartoum ordered Gillian Gibbons, 54, to be incarcerated in the city’s Omdurman women’s prison, her lawyer said, adding that the verdict was “disappointing” and they would be mounting an appeal.
For the record, I suppose we should be grateful that Ms. Gibbons is not to be flogged. She very well could have been, and so their forbearance is to be regarded as a Sudanese brand of mercy, it seems.
For the record, the name “Mohammed” was overwhelmingly chosen by her students – the majority of whom were Muslim – as the toy’s name.
For the record, the name “Mohammed” is the second most common name in Islam.
For the record, there’s nothing so likely to incite religious hatred as this risible succession of patently unjust and inhumane verdicts by ostensibly serious people.
Some Muslims claim that they are angry by the lack of respect their religion is accorded in the West. For the record, the rest of the world will find it difficult to take seriously, far less respect members of any faith so thin-skinned that they would flog a girl for being raped, and threaten to flog a teacher over a teddy bear.
I’m just saying.
Not to mention killing and rioting over cartoons.
So lets see ,what shall we do with all the
drug dealing,thieving scum bags that are called Mohammed ?
Surely they need to be flogged for disrespecting the “great ones ” name ?
Lets see how the British Government deal with this issue ? ……….oh no they wont do anything, because……….. they are too frightened of the Muslims !!!!!!!!!!!!
I hate to say this. So why am I?
But for clarity, the girl wasn’t flogged for being raped, right? Even though I understood that they do that. But in this case it was for being alone with a guy. For whatever the reason. And both her and the guy were to be flogged for that. And the seven guys that raped her were sentenced to imprisonment and a lot more lashes than she was.
Like I said, its not like I have any desire to defend these people. And for many things there is just no defending. But we should at least try to be accurate …
It is nice to know that the little brats she was teaching knew this would get her in trouble. Piss on ‘em. You’ll be happier in the UK. Someone insulted my religion, someone call the “wambulance.”
I just named my toilet Mohammed.
I didn’t know much about Islam, then 9/11 happened. I believed the religion of peace thing for about 6 months (I am charitable) Now I just seethe whenever I think about the…. the… I will not curse here, but I do when I think of them.
I wonder if this woman is the kind of person who believed she was helping a noble ancient, and misunderstood people by using her western background and education to volunteer by teaching in their country. Boy, they sure showed her!
I believe that the true crime she is being prosecuted for is introducing the idea of a vote…
To children no less!
I’ve been fulminating about this disgusting story all day. Told my husband that if the Brits had any common sense, they would get a team of SAS guys to go in secretly, get the poor woman out and arrange fatal ‘accidents’ for the judge and the guards who condemned her. _Then_ we can talk.
Remember, guys … the female of the species is deadlier than the male. And I’m deadlier than most, now that I’ve lost patience with these idiots!
Marianne Matthews
Probably made perfect sense in the 7th century, which is where most Muslims seem to be stuck.
Michelle: the woman in Saudi Arabia was sentenced to, I believe, 200 lashes. Some for being in a car with an unrelated man, then getting raped. Then they added more onto the sentence because she complained about it in the media.
As for the teddy bear – what I want to know is this: what about all those parents who named their kids Mohammed – making it the 2nd most popular name in the Muslim world? Aren’t they insulting their religion???
Don’t forget her lawyer who had the cheek to defend his client – he was disbarred for appealing in the first place!
Please note the attitude of Muslims that we kufir must accomodate them: “they are angry by the lack of respect their religion is accorded in the West.” It seems they never have to do anything to earn respect.
Michelle – Here are some good sources for the case. The woman was initially sentenced to 90 lashes for being in a car with a man who was not her husband. Then she was gang raped for that offense. When she complained about the rape, her sentence was increased to 200 lashes and 6 months in prison. The rapists were sentenced to 2 to 9 years in prison.
Saudi court to gang-rape victim: How does 200 lashes sound?
Husband of Saudi gang-rape victim: “You could say she’s a crushed human being”
Saudis: Did we mention that the gang-rape victim confessed to adultery?
Saudi foreign minister on gang-rape victim’s sentence: “These things happen”
Saudi gang-rape victim speaks
Again, can’t recall the name (old age, that sort of thing), but early in our long, revered relationship with Pakistan, the Ambassador stirred up riots of peace-lovin’ Muslims because he named his dog (remember, dogs are evil in Islam) Ahmed, which is a diminutive for Mohammed. Ended up renaming the dog and shipping it out of the country, IIRC.
I personally like the SAS solution mentioned above. To admit that the teacher erred in any way and insulted anyone is to kowtow to these bullies. “In Islam, it is our custom to imprison those who insult the Prophet’s (sallalahu allahi wassalam) name.” “And you may have your custom. But we in the free world have a custom of our own, and that’s to use whatever force is necessary to win the freedom of any of our own who are unjustly imprisoned by regimes such as yours. You may practice your custom on this teacher. We will be practicing our custom shortly thereafter.”
I should add that right now the Sudanese government is making a full-court press behind the scenes to lessen the US pressure on them over Darfur. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was part of that, gone a tad awry.
I also wonder about the British reaction to this. First the sailors in Iran, now this. A once mighty empire, embarrassed once again by their own impotence in the face of such ridiculousness in the name of a religion.
Thanks for links, Michael. I read them all as well as some of the further links. I hadn’t responded to Kris’ comment because I didn’t particularly want to carry on the bizarre appearance of defending them. Like I said, there are some things that can’t be defended. Many, many things in that ‘culture’. And more than a few arising from this incident.
But I have apparently have this thing about keeping the language and the facts straight.
You say:
The woman was initially sentenced to 90 lashes for being in a car with a man who was not her husband. Then she was gang raped for that offense.”
I still don’t see how you can say she was ‘sentenced’ for being raped. Unless you believe the whole thing was a set up, as one of the link implies. But if so, that was more the doing of the ex boyfriend than their pretend justice system.
And Kris, “the woman in Saudi Arabia was sentenced to, I believe, 200 lashes. Some for being in a car with an unrelated man, then getting raped. “
Sentenced to 90 lashes for being in the car with the man. Sentence increased because she appealed. But not sentenced to anything for the rape itself. Which, actually, I don’t understand. Because I thought women were regualarly punished there for the crime of being raped. Does anyone know why this case was handled differently? It couldn’t possibly be that they thought they were showing mercy, because they had already done enough to her… [/snark off]
Kris
I have watched that story wondering what the Canadian government would do if she was one of ours. Now you make me think again, its easy and feels good to sit here and talk about something like “the SAS solution”, but I wonder what, besides “diplomatic measures”, your government would do …
Michelle, as I implied, the cold reality is that our governments, US and Canadian, would do pretty much nothing. For the US, the almighty GWOT says that sacrificing a school teacher is an insignificant price to pay if we can just talk Sudan into giving us Abu Butthead or whoever else they have inside their borders. For England, the problem is complicated by the huge “asian” (read: Muslim) population they have in their country, which is already at the forefront of a national crime wave. Wouldn’t take much to set them off, mustn’t anger them now.
As for me, I prefer “Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead.”
Michelle, what you’re missing here is that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is probably the world’s most oppressive tyranny, save possibly Syria, where every action, every hint of expression, is monitored, measured and dealt with. IIRC, she was lured to the car by a threat that if she didn’t come, they would spread the word that she had anyway. Instant death sentence. In that case, gang rape might be an adequate second worst choice. But no matter what, she could not deny that she had been alone with men other than her immediate family. She’s automatically guilty of that, and if she got raped as a consequence, that’s purely coincidental. That the men were punished for rape at all is what is amazing here. As for 200 lashes, that’s clearly a death sentence, and it’s clearly because she spoke out and brought some international attention to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
So you’re right, she isn’t getting 200 lashes for being gang-raped. Not that it makes any difference.
Well according to this morning’s news some of the local religious wackos have inflamed the issue by calling for her execution. Let’s see if the UK government has any balls left and demands her release. I’d even give them the promise that she could server her sentence in a UK jail. Times like this I miss Margret Thatcher.
Lex, with his usual style and dignity, understated his post.
These are two cases, that for whatever reason managed to make it into the press. Lots of things, many of them much worse go unnoted and unremarked. Try Googling honor killing statistics and U.N. to find the data. According to the U.N., there were approximately 5,000 women murdered by their families in the year 2000. This is done in many cultures, but is endemic in the Islamic world. There is no “cultural relativism” or “respect for Islam” that will change the level of disgust I feel for people that would murder their own wives/sisters/daughters for some perceived infidelity.
On these particular cases, flogging as a punishment for being in a car with a man you are not married to? How many liberal women in the West think we should move toward that? How hard are they will to have us fight to prevent it?
15 days in jail for insulting Islam by innocently letting a group of schoolchildren name a teddy bear? Note that the bear was not named Allah, but Mohamed. It’s like someone named a toy Moses, not Jehovah. Once again, how hard are we willing to fight to defend the right of free speech and free expression for Christian, Jews, Buddists, Hindus, and atheists?
Lithium deuteride, I tellya! Lots of it, good ‘n hot!
What amazes me is that so many soi-disant “feminists” in the West seem to give this kind of thing a pass, but have one brought up on charges for accidentally unintentionally flirting with one of them in the workplace.
Insensitive remarks/winking =/= 200 lashes, ummkay?
Which reminds me; I have an LJ account now. I think I’ll go over and troll Ginmar. I’ll just say something like “Oh, I have y chromosomes. Good morning!” That should get her to ban me for a troll.
ASM826, as you noted, they didn’t name the bear Allah, they named it Mohamed. The Shahada, or profession of faith (one of them five pillars) is, There is no god but Allah, and Mohamed is his prophet. Mohamed is in Islamic understanding the perfect man, the excellent model. The rapes, treachery and butchery he condoned and practiced, modern Muslims, to be good Muslims, must also practice. It’s also why in less sensitive days we more accurately termed the religion, Mohamedism.
Oh, yeah, I still call them Mohammedans, and Papists, Papists, and Baptists, Thumpers, and Methodists, uh, I dunno, I still officially am one, though I don’t get along, and Anglicans Whiskypalians, and you catch my drift, I hope.
Man, if you can’t take something that’s so lame it’s not even a joke, I mean, the Mohammedans say that Mohammed was just a man, not part-deity like Jesus. So if he was Just this guy, like me, why is it bad to use his name to name other critters?
Whatever one thinks about the mediaeval Church, they at least adhered to logic, and taught it in Universities.
Zane, I hear you. And agree with you.
Just couldn’t overcome my obsessive tendencies to be a stickler about getting the language straight.
JTG, I sure hope you ain’t including me in your group of “Western ‘feminists’ who give this kind of thing a pass” … that’s why I didn’t want to go to far, because I was afraid someone would take it that way. Yeah, sure, its perfectly okay. Worry not. What’s a few lashes/stones between friends? We just don’t get their ways … but that’s our fault, not theirs. [That was sarcasm BTW. Just in case anybody couldn't tell.]
It’s a lawyer thing, this literalism. We forgive you. But you really need to do something about those refrigerators.
JTG, I just Googled up this “Ginmar” entity of whom you speak. You really want to wallow around in all of that dyspepsia?
Five minutes and I needed a shower.
Thanks Lex. I appreciate that.
I always knew you were a good man, a man with character.
What a hoot. Wanna bet we bought those refrigerators from the US? Tell you what, you guys work on gun control and we’ll work on fridge control. Together we will make the planet safer. For the
socialistsDemocrats.I’d love to do something about gun control, but sadly it conflicts with my libertarian leanings.
After all, you can’t force people to buy guns. They have to want to defend themselves.
And beer, Michelle …. And beer.
Marianne Matthews
The damn’ thing about ginmar, is that she de-published her most interesting posts about her time in Iraq, having to do with the actual fire-fight in which she participated, like, actual combat, among and against actual boy-type humans. Curiously, Chap keeps her on his blogroll. Hell, he keeps me on his blogroll, and I haven’t posted in a l-o-n-g-e time. Chap does seem to be an aficionado of weirdness.
Maybe he’s finally found his niche as a Foreign Area Officer.
(IMHO, the coolest thing a United States Officer can do
next to being an aviator, of course)
.
Michelle – in response to your comment #18 and Zane’s that followed – probably nothing more than diplomacy. Daniel Pearl and Nicholas Berg ring any bells? Or the soldiers who were captured, tortured, executed and desecrated?
If you think the terrorists who slaughtered those people are any different than the Sudanese or Saudi Arabian courts…how about we talk about that nice bridge in Brooklyn.
You can’t negotiate with terrorists. And while I believe the world has much to fear from the constantly escalating and screeching from the Muslim community worldwide, I do believe that as Zane pointed out, England has the biggest local threat at the moment. Which is why I wondered aloud what they (England) intend to do about this ridiculous monkey-trial…
Michelle, you said:
That’s what they want you to believe, I’m sure. Because honor killings, as ASM826 pointed out, are the norm in the Muslim world as punishment for the “dishonor” brought to a family by a woman who has the incredibly horrific “luck” of being raped. 90 lashings for being in the car of a man you are not married to? Then another 110 just because she complained about it? I’m sure buried in there somewhere is something about the gang rape itself.
Personally, I like the SAS solution that Marianne brought up first. Get that poor teacher out of there, period. And lest we lose sight of one very important point about the school in which she taught:
Lost my link to that quote, but it was on Fox News and other A.P. sources earlier this week.
Kris, I concur. And yes I do think, a lot of the time, that most wimmin are right silly. Doesn’t mean I want to control them and/or hurt them, though. I just admire their beauty from a respectful distance, which the Mohammedans would not allow.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8T83I300&show_article=1
There’s the update, the people of the “religion of peace” are demonstrating in the street for the teacher’s death. Here’s the opening paragraph:
KHARTOUM, Sudan (AP) – Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, rallied Friday in a central square and demanded the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear “Muhammad.”
“Bloody Mohatmans” (not the “W” word-yet)
There. I’ve said it.
Ready another Nile Expedition. No more Gordons….
b2
About that Saudi case… from the linked IHT article:
And…
I find it interesting that the evil-doers raped BOTH the girl and her friend. Seems to me the judge overlooked something a mite bit…ummm…significant when passing out sentences for the rapists.
And… about that second quote. Who knew there was such compassion involved with the floggings, eh? I mean, the Koran under the arm, and all. Aren’t we being a mite harsh in our condemnation?
/sarcasm
So, is it possible to make robotic oil-field roustabouts which can function in a radioactive environment? I understand that there were some problems at Chernobyl, and we might have to go back to vacuum tubes. I don’t wish to have innocent deaths on my conscience, could we give 24 hours of notice before generating lots of trinitite over there?
(Yes, I have been drinking, and if the Mohammedans think that makes me loony-dangerous, well, make the most of it!)
Umm, I shoulda wrote “roughnecks.” Roustabouts had to do with Mississippi steamboats, I believe.
Bad Bob,
You brought up Chinese Gordon’s fate and the Nile Expedition before I had a chance to. Too bad the Brits don’t have a Kitchener nowadays.
Too bad NOBODY seems to have a Kitchener nowadays . . .
The people that should be putting pressure on the “judicial system” in the Sudan are the French and Chinese…
They are the largest exporters of Sudan’s singular product, oil…
So, good luck with any kind of civility coming from the gov’t of the Sudan.
Who will it be next time?
Lex said:
I’d love to do something about gun control, but sadly it conflicts with my libertarian leanings. After all, you can’t force people to buy guns. They have to want to defend themselves.
Yeah, I have a similar problem UP here. You can’t force people to buy refrigerators either. They have to want a place to put their beer. Other than out in a snowbank, I mean…
Er. I made the same mistake as Lex. I followed him to “ginmar’s” site (hey, he’s a superior officer, and has flown faster airplanes… and the military mostly didn’t even let me land in the things) and now I want to send her a gift package with a Laszlo Szeress song to cheer her up.
I vaguely recall the splash over the GI Jane warhero posts a long time ago. I suspect the reason she removed them is that she was challenged on their, er, authenticity.
Dulce et decorum est, to be the sort of man that a certain sort of woman reflexively loathes.
See, Michelle? Snowbanks! The natural way to keep Canadian beer. Just ask us Maniacs who more than once have zipped across the border to get the real Molson’s, not the watered-down crap that meets some ridiculous American bureaucratic pecksniff’s standards.
As for the teddy bear of death, more here:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018986.php
ASM826, as someone else pointed out, it’s not the “religion of peace” but the “religion of pieces”.