Over at the Volokh Conspiracy I heard a name I hadn’t heard in a month of Sundays. A retired naval officer and O-6 jumping into the blogging game. A trail-blazer as it were, one of the first female officers in naval aviation and the first to command a squadron.
She’s posting on the “Americanization of the Armed Forces,” a matter I thought had already been settled, but no:
In the American example, the debate over the nature of the armed forces and who serves predates the republic. Issues of inclusion and exclusion are a constant thread in U.S. military history, both in (and between) the professional “regular” army and America’s various citizen-armies. The same is true of the Navy. Military historian Alex Roland argues “that personnel is the most important topic…Who is going to fight, under what terms, and with what consequences? This is the fundamental question of American military experience.”
Thus, the so-called “feminization” of the military over the last one hundred years is really part of what I call the Americanization of our armed forces.
So, there you are.
The comments are a good read as well. Certain readers wholeheartedly agree while other take exception to her point, and still others to how she makes it. I’ve already dabbled my toe in that water, but in my own beetle-browed way continue to draw a distinction between standards required of front line infantry units and those of other combat support elements, including air.
And that’s all I have to say about that.
………….!!!
Nah. Can’t do it!
I’ll wait for Skippy to go first.
BTW, I still have the same opinion I had before- distilled down to:
I’ll shut the F^&k up only because it’s statuatory and I ain’t in the game no-mo.
b2
No comment. I have to find my medication….its somewhere in the medicine chest. B l o o d P r e s s u r e rising…………….
Me thinks integration in the combat arms is ludicrous.
My blood pressure meds are wearing off at the thought.
__________! ___ _______ ___. And that is all I’ll say about that.
I’ll venture into this on tiptoe to say that it’s a fascinating comment thread over there. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the arguments on either side (especially the anti) better articulated.
I haven’t read to the end yet, but the conversation seems to maintain a rather elevated tone, contrary to the usual course of comments on a touchy issue.
Don’t have time to read at length right now, but I will make a point to. My “little girl” is still trying to get into the Naval Academy andwants to fly jets, so I have a little interest in the topic.
And, if it means anything, I’ve seen her kick a*s on some pretty big fellas on the Taekwondo mat, yours truly included.
The previous contributor was very interesting. FWIW, he came down firmly against women on the front line
http://volokh.com/posts/chain_1197065722.shtml
Was it Roaemary or Janey. I actually met Jane O’Dea at NAF Naples on a rotten “spring?” day. This was in 1976 and she was a Jaygee and I was a snot nosed AMH3. Ooops! Age give away!!!
The previous contributor inspired some comments from that rarest of the rare, a female redleg. I advised The Donovan about that, but he did not seem to want to get into that. He lost power at his new place, too.
Having a real life may interfere with Important Blog Stuff.
Lex, help me out here–was CAPT Mariner forever an aviator down at Pax River, because there was pretty much nowhere else to put her? Went reserve there? Had a good rep as a jet pilot, full of stories and fun to drink with, not very political but often other politically-minded senior O’s wanted to use her as a poster-girl?
Or am I thinking of someone else entirely?
I keep wanting to poke at this.
Poking the bear with a stick is gonna get me in trouble.
I can feel it.
Here’s a peek at life as a grunt:
80 lbs ruck sack. Radio. Weapon. Ammo. Full battle rattle. A not too treacherous hike (let’s keep it fair) through some slightly crappy terrain.
When you get done with the hike, you can drop the ruck, but have to run up a hill firing your weapon.
Ahh, the joys of being a grunt.
Ladies need not apply.
I don’t want to carry your crap too.
Call me old fashioned as it may be, but that is my feeling (sic) on this one.
I left off the plurality on purpose. I have only one, feeling that is, typical grunt.
Zane, I believe it’s someone else you’re thinking of. CAPT Mariner commanded VAQ-34, which I believe was a shore-based support squadron at NAS Lemoore and also commanded NAS Meridian, the training base.
EJ, it says something about our culture doesn’t it, that we feel the need to have to self-edit on this topic when we don’t talk around it.
EJ, it says something about our culture doesn’t it, that we feel the need to have to self-edit on this topic when we don’t talk around it.
And that makes me so sad.
I think part of why this topic is so difficult is that is so complex, touching on so many related issues–both personal and societal.
I am extremely conflicted on this subject. The libertarian in me believes people should be given as much freedom to pursue their desires/calling as is possible. But the traditionalist in me worries that the idea of women anywhere near the “front lines” (a fact of military life today) has negative impacts in ways that are not scientifically measurable. Not to mention the physical/logistical issues EJ describes.
And then I think of my sisters under arms who have served with devotion and honor, and the “outliers” who are able to keep up with the men in physical demands, and I feel that to say they shouldn’t be doing that is equivalent to telling a soldier “I support you, but not the war you’re fighting.” The thought is abhorrent to me.
I suppose my opinion would be a lot clearer if I had a personal stake in it, if I had ever felt the calling to be a solider. Instead, I find that learning to allow other people to protect me–a rare experience for this perpetually-single woman–has changed how I see the strengths and weaknesses of myself and my gender.
Which just brings the circle back to my opening line.
[Oops. Edit for last line above: "Which just brings me circle-like back to why it's such a complex issue."]
Yes indeed Lex.
I do not wish to disrespect the women in the armed forces of our nation.
Their sacrifices are just as great and their devotion to this country is beyond reproach.
I should have maybe stated that before I jumped in to this at the neck.
Dang, Fuzzy! I’ll be sixty years old right soon, and though male am frightened when I contemplate the ratio of the numbers of those people who are younger, bigger, stronger, and meaner than I am to the number of those who are older, smaller, weaker, and wussier than I am. I get right depressed at times, thinking about that.
I console myself by thinking that, “Yes, there ARE virtuous badasses.”
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