I’m willing to admit my lack of expertise in this at least: I haven’t had a civilian job since I was shoveling ice cream at Baskin-Robbins at age 17. That too will change in time, tic-tock, but over at The Flight Deck, Kris asks what it is that leads to a successful military-to-civilian transition – and her interest is not just academic:
I’m calling out to all of you who are active, retired, reservists Рanyone with a military background who at some point has tried to secure employment in the private sector. I’d like to know what worked well and what didn’t. What were your interviewing experiences like? How do you think your military background affected your ability to get a job?
Here’s a chance to help other vets, and as Kris says, the possibilities are exciting.
The good offers came from those you already know. Start getting in touch with old shipmates, and let them know you’re lookin’.
I can tell you from the point of someone who works almost exclusively with former military…
The ones that transition well realize they are in a different world and don’t try to push the other world upon everyone.
They use their past experience as a knowledge base. It’s one thing to hear someone say, “Well, we always did it THIS way” and yet another to hear, “I attended many meetings where the following was thought, and it might be best to think of the following approach… given the military thought process.” (If that makes sense.)
Civilians just don’t take orders. I mean, to some degree we do, I definitely listen to my boss, but I am apt to question. And although I will ultimately do what I’m told, unless I think there is a danger element, very rarely is it a case where we just take orders and move on.
Its much more loosey goosey. And I will say… 9/10ths of the military men I’ve known, from every branch, both enlisted and officer, transition pretty daggum well. The 6 months to a year is always an adjustment, but I think its an adjustment every time you change duty stations.
Very very few have not transitioned… very few. It just takes time.
And Idaho is right, it helps if you know people. That whole networking thing is absolutely true.
And now for something completely different!
Hey, Cap’n!
Check your e-mail and win a chance for free beer.
Put your military experience and training to work for you….your technical skills as well as your leadership and management skills.
If you were a pilot, there are still some empty seats in the cockpits of the world.
If you were a flight instructor, but can no longer fly, being a flight simulator instructor is a great way to help pilots learn how to keep from killing themselves. And working with civilian pilots from all over the world is a fascinating experience.
Mainly, though, decide what you really want to do and do it.
The transition from military to civilian environments is a snap, btw.
It’s great to see so many people have made the transition so successfully. I know it’s certainly not true for all, though.
I’m reminded of a retired-for-three-years SNCO I worked with at the USO who gave orders as if he’d never retired. I enjoyed working with him (learned to let him order me around until he figured out he could trust me), but most other volunteers refused because he was “bossy” or “rude.”
As far as I could tell, he was successful at work, but often complained about the trials of working with civilians. Then again, he may not ever have distinguished between civilian and military, as I watched him treat his teenage daughter as if she was his E-2. Mostly she just rolled her eyes and laughed affectionately, and told me stories about his military orders and precision, so I suppose it worked for them…. But I imagine an interaction style that defaulted to that kind of thing could create friction at work with both superiors and subordinates.
Never stop looking, use all the resources available to you. The career I hold now, I found while awaiting an appointement at the Family Services Center during my checkout of my last command. The job was listed on a letter to any military veteran, on a bulletin board buried 10 deep under others like it. I sent off the resume, as I’d done several score already, and promptly forgot about it. The point is, I found my job in a most unlikely place, hidden. Such is the way most treasures are found. Use the resources, no other employer provides transition assistance like that of the US Military, people are falling all over themselves to help you out. I don’t think it was luck, but, don’t count that out either. I love my job and could only be happier if it shifted colors and steamed out to sea occassionally, but, that’s just nostalgia talking…
My suggestions:
First, if circumstances allow, use the transition to invest in yourself by furthering your education. Getting a/another degree will do three things for you. First, it will qualify you for more jobs. Second, it will line you up in a natural process for job placement and recruiting. Third, and most importantly, it will build awareness of more career possibilities and further your preparation for the transition.
Second – and this is even more important the more senior you are – network. Talk to people about what they do, and how they got started. If there are companies that you like, try to find a contact for an informational interview, to learn more about their experiences, how they got in, and how they hire.
Third, be true to yourself. Think about what you enjoy doing. Look for a path that will put you in a position to do that kind of work. If you like what you are doing, you will probably be very successful.
Possibly the hardest part is to listen and look more than you speak. Civilians have their own way of doing things and the military has its own way. They ain’t the same ways … though in the successful companies (and I now, after many years in the wilderness, have worked myself into such a company) have a style that more superficially than actually different. Results matter – and the results in the civilian world are done even more through other people than they are in the military. Pay attention to those other people and let them help you … if you make it desirable.
I know its a minor little nit, but for a while I found it odd to look into the closet and realize I had to come up with some sensible color combination every day. Seems there are lots of khaki dockers in a retiree’s closet
Two things-HUGE things- you retirees are blessed with is the certainty that a monthly stipend will be coming your way no matter what…And Tricare.
If you find yourself in a world where there are few ex-military, look in the mirror every morning and remind yourself of how those past sacrifices are ponying up some big dividends.
Lex – thank you for this! I’m thrilled to already see so many of you commenting. But I think I may not have articulated very well what I’m looking for.
This isn’t about how former military find jobs in the private sector. It’s about how the private sector treats those with a military background – is it harder to get your foot in the door? Especially in these politically-charged times, does having a military background work for you, or against you? Any of you who have made this transition – what was the process like? What could someone have done differently to make it easier? Or what did someone do to make it a snap?
This is about how to help a Fortune 100 company craft policies that recognize the unique contributions people from the military can make to a business situation.
It’s about how the private sector treats those with a military background – is it harder to get your foot in the door?
With so much of society having little direct exposure to the military…even in the midst of a war…I would opine that many would have no clue that you are ex-military unless you advertise it.
What may pique the interest of the average employer towards an ex-military individual though is the inherent “getterdun” attitude and generally more erect bearing most are imbued with.
It helps if someone at the company is ex-military and can translate that first resume from mil-speak to civilian-speak. No matter how civilianized you think it is, chances are 30% or more of it is still gobbletygook to a non-mil person.
I got lucky at my 1st civilian job where two former USMC CPL’s were able to look at my resume and give my boss a thumbs up.
Pretty lucky for me considering they were avionics techs and I was a SWO.
And the job was at a software company, so there was no crossover of mil-skills to speak of.
Kris: corporate acceptance/understanding/tolerance of those who are so completely marinated in the military lifestyle that it oozes from their grimy pores is partially a function of the line of business they are in.
some business that has a decidedly Engineering or Technology bend to it; they will generally have an easier corporate culture to immediately fit into. another business in the Marketing sector would be not quite such an immediate cultural fit. (exceptions always in both cases).
common saying around my particular workplace is this: Engineers are from Mars, Marketing comes from Venus, IT is in orbit around Pluto.
i can’t stress enough that if the corporation is large enough, they definitely need to establish some form of veterans advisory board to help their corporate leadership and HR department understand the ongoing challenges of veterans and Reservists and Guardsmen.
Speaking of transitions, I would offer that few are more extreme than the journey taken by this boat school bred ex-DDG DH…
I would venture to say that the best thing one could do is avoid acronyms like the plague. Ruthlessly rip them out of your resume and replace them with plain old english. Tear them out of your speaking style until you understand the local business culture.
Another thing is to leave behind is the officer/enlisted mentality. The miltary is socially and hierarchically organized, the civilian world is not. The schlub in the mailroom can just as easily end up running the company as you. Oh, one other thing; don’t forget about the relatives. Some companies are chock full of relations. Nepotism exists. Be aware that the kid you just dissed may next week become your boss.
The next thing to work on is is fear. Not your own, but rather that of your coworkers. They do not have the experiences that you do and therefore may view you with a bit of wariness. If you walk in and start commanding instead of leading , you’ve already lost.
I’m coming at it from both ends: as a transitioning retiree myself and a person who’s business is helping transitioning military.
Yes, there are different levels of readiness depending on the individual and their own experiences, level of commitment and focus. Some do well as rugged indivduals in the process and some could use considerable help with their personal, customized situation. Don’t let your ego get in the way of the latter if that’s the case. It’s not a sign of weakness to reach out!
1. Drop the acronyms – civvies don’t even understand the term suspense date.
2. Realize that civvies don’t/sometimes can’t handle stress in the same way that you’re accustomed to now. (for them tight deadlines really are the end of the world)
3. Don’t spend too much of your time telling war stories to illustrate a point. Transition the shavetail to a new guy, the CO to the boss, the flight deck to the factory. The best communication is that with which the listener can relate.
4. Your most important skill is to make decisions and take responsibility. Believe it or not civvies often can’t make a decision or see clear through the BS.
5. Be yourself. Seriously, you don’t have to play the grizzled veteran to new recruits etc. The only hat you need to wear is your own.
Or, you can do what I did. Stay close to the fold, work as an advisor to USN (i.e., “Beltway Bandit”). I got a job doing the same thing as my last tour, but better pay and nicer clothes! And that acronym thing – an asset, not a problem, with DoD types.
Of course, you could do what one of my CPOs did. Put on the choker whites and drive west until someone asks what the funny suit is…
Kris
I know of two companies in the fortune 100 (serving the private sector) that planned specifically to hire graduates of the service academies. One of these ex military hires told me his transition was easier if he made the effort to back the mil-speak, not even using 14:00 to represent 2:00pm for example. Most in the organization understood his background over time and viewed it as a positive. His West Point ring was still visible.
I believe Lex’s education, capabilities and experience would be welcomed at both military contractors or the private sector. Lex it’s not out of the question for you to run a business unit or a medium sized company if that’s your objective.
I have had two Navy flyers under my auspices over the years. They moved on and were able to pursue lucrative careers in a.) sales b.) Consulting. One eventually acquired his own L-29. Another owned (and sold) an L-39. Fuel costs were outrageous. While their second career was not flying, they were able to enjoy better than bug smasher speeds.
A military background can be an excellent start to the next career but folks in the private sector expect ex-military to blend in and respect the existing company culture.
MajMike: that’s it, the words I couldn’t find. That is what my Fortune 100 employer is trying to do. Thank you for your eloquence!
If I were an HR person at a Fortune 100 company I would do several things:
Get to know military people, E’s and O’s, and learn what they do and how that translates to civilian-speak (you likely know some here already…). Learn their military job. The similarities are endless– engineering, management, operations, public affairs, IT, etc.
Post job openings where mil-types will see them on the internets, maybe send reps to those cities with a large military presence and set up a booth at a career fair. Even write in the job description, “do you have X experience? Then we want to talk to you now!”
I think military experience works for you, regardless of what’s happening in the world today. If a company, stupidly, looks down on military service, then that’s unconscionable. Too, word would travel so fast that Company X doesn’t hire vets, it would destroy them. It’s simply bad business on their part.
Hope this helps.
I work for a very large consulting company that has an entire separate gov’t line that specifically recruits for aeronautical line of work as well as those with clearances for our rather quieter division.
Look for those companies that actually perform the work for the gov’t (may ways to look for those names via databases, public library can help) and you won’t run into any issues with those less-kind-to-former-military.
Kris: i’ll drop you a note over on your blog site. that’ll have a good contact address if you wish to drop me a line.
I did recently encounter the latter. We had an executive state that he couldn’t in clear conscience hire a man “that had willingly taken up arms against his fellow man,” despite his qualifications for the position.
My boss told him to put a sock in it and get the hire done. Me? Well, it’s odd how it suddenly takes much longer for me to get work done for his group, isn’t it? Don’t know what the hold up could be….
Lots of ex-mil guys in my large IT company – they did their homework & prior planning to achieve this goal just as they did in a previous life and they are generally successful at leading people & managing things. I’m the only exception to this august group, but I’m taking advantage of my competent peers…And I found that “civilians” can learn to love military acronyms…(-* I’d recommend using the previous-mil folks you served with to increase & refine views of your target(s) and identify ones you may have missed. Your skills are always transferable; military service offers advantages and challenges that can make one extremely competitive in comparison to civilian career paths. I had no previous IT background but I can read and occasionally execute. I look for and try to develop the same character traits in my new hires that I did in young paratroopers. We don’t have an obstacle course here though.
Kris,
I think that one of the things my employers liked best about my military background was stability. They knew I would show up for work. Simple things like timelyness are important, and the military has it in spades. The other thing, and companies don’t always realize this, is the trainability. I was a grunt, and that didn’t translate too well to the financial industry, but they could train me very quickly. As for stressful situations, hey, nobody is shooting at me at work, so it’s no big deal.
I think I made the mil-civilian transition successfully, but that’s a subjective opinion, ain’t it?
I’m also in a rather different boat in that I never applied for a single civilian job. I was recruited by my former USAF boss for my first post-USAF job. I wrote that first resumé the night my former boss called and asked me to fly to Detroit and interview. It certainly helped that the company I hired on with was “military friendly.” So much so, in fact, that the employees in the Detroit facility where I first went to work took to calling it “AFCC North” (Air Force Communications Command) because of all the re-treads working there, including one USAF general officer and a boat-load of Chiefs. This phenomenon was duly (and favorably) noted during my interview process, both by me and by the HR folks…who made a point of introducing me to former USAF colleagues.
Another commenter mentioned the value of networking, and I’ll second that thought. Each and every civilian position I held after my first (entry-level) position came as a result of being “drafted” by senior managers who were aware of my track record…either when I was working directly for them or with them on a given initiative. You might also call that “luck,” which shouldn’t be discounted, either.
Kris – I would suggest you benchmark some large corporations who are already hiring scads of military people to see how they recruit/indoctrinate former military people.
Home Depot has made a big deal for example in targeting military people in the last couple of years.
Whatever the field, hope for an entry point of contact with prior service people.
When I transitioned I thank God my final and deciding interview was was with a retired Marine (mustang) Major. He could read between the lines of my military resume. Even though my resume didn’t relate directly to the open position, he could extrapolate to civilian application. He was able to draw parallels between experience in flex deck op tempo and 24/7 manufacturing environment.
That and he had the huevos to make a command decision and risk his rep for me based on his estimation/experience evaluating character and talent of an enlisted guy. Of course I didn’t know it was a risk for him at the time. Several years later he invited me to lunch and told his side of it and to thanke me for vindicating his decision.
If I’d only known the risk he took I’d have done a lot less surfing on lunch breaks… LOL
Kris, First, let me say this, This is a GREAT first step in a long journey for everybody. I don’t want this to be overshadowed, in fact, I want to build upon it. First, realize this will be a difficult trip, but will actually show this Nation, the corporations’ desire to help our military and our veterans. In a way, they will be going to war. This will most probably be a very long war, 10,000 years. There are many many issues which we as a Nation must face, this is just one. But if you do it right, you can establish a model which can be followed. The idea of a corporate council focused on military, active duty, reserve, National Guard and with this, their families. This would cover the real problems of deployment, returning discharged military, both officer and enlisted. Especially for the enlisted people and NCO’s, help them to get educational credit for their training. Then explore the option of additional education.
Now to continue, as I have already discussed, you have a council within the corporation for military affairs. Now, we’ll take it up one notch. We will create a new level, a “Council of Councils” or an intercorporate council on military affairs. This council would take all of the ideas and check them out. As we compare them with others, we find a good idea, there are many of them out there.
Now, how do we communicate all of this to the returning military people? They have about a ton of baggage to decide on how to deal with it, none of it, easy. There will be a tipping point, where the decompression is complete and it is time to move on. The corporations all create their own military council websites showing their services. Then, you create an intercoporate council website, which is actually a portal to all of the corporate websites. This becomes the launching pad for these military people to a whole new world.
Name: “Help us, to help you, to Help This Great Nation”
As always
Grumpy
Flatlander: in fact my employer has a very healthy recruiting stance when it comes to the military. If you follow the link provided by Lex, you’ll get to my entry on the Flight Deck, which provides some history about my company’s position – including being ranked as one of the top 50 companies in the country for military recruiting, per G.I. Jobs.
So we aren’t starting from scratch, Grumpy. We are already in a position of strength and commitment – we want to take it to another level, with as MajMike suggested, a Veterans Advisory Board – doing outreach, recruiting and focus groups.
You all blow me away – this is so much more than I could have ever hoped for. Thank you all for your time, your dedication – and most importantly your service to this country.
And thank you Lex – for giving some of your bandwidth over to this. This is great stuff I’m getting…
Keep it coming, please…all.
Kris, I knew that you were not starting from scratch. a LONG time ago, my Father taught me how to spell the word “assume.” In fact, when I was in basic training, it was something that actually taught. The word “assume” is a consequence of itself, “ass-u-me.” But what about the person who is reading this blog and thinking about the same idea on a smaller scale? Where does he/she start?
We need to find ways to adapt the military training to civilian application. The new veteran needs to find at least some sense of control in the decision making process over their own lives. The next step can go in many different directions depending on the new veteran. Many corporations have their own courses on the use of their IT applications. You may want to set up an online syllabus to assist the vet on his hike through this jungle with its many paths, but also its traps. Try http://www.opencourseware.net as an idea. Talk with the corporations, you have a dual message for them. “What do you really need/want from these vets?” “Remember one thing, the ONLY reason YOU are HERE is because THEY were THERE! Don’t ever forget that!” It may not be nice, but it is the unvarnished truth. The next time it may you, your family or friends to go.
There is one more ugly thing to consider, some can never even begin the process of “transition”. They are the “walking dead of this war.” They have paid their dues to this Nation. In all of your thinking and planning, REMEMBER this, if nothing else.
Kris, thank you, for what you are doing for today’s warriors.
As always,
Grumpy