See if you can tease it out of this heartbreaking, enraging article from the Dallas Morning News.
Having completed the article and returned to this page, your attention is invited to the quote from Edmund Burke to your right.
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World’s dumbest questionBy lex, on January 10th, 2008
January 10th, 2008 | Tags: Headlines | Category: Uncategorized
40 comments to World’s dumbest question |
Targets of Opportunityblog advertising is good for you Credo"Sign on, young man, and sail with me. The stature of our homeland is no more than the measure of ourselves. Our job is to keep her free. Our will is to keep the torch of freedom burning for all. To this solemn purpose we call on the young, the brave, the strong, and the free. Heed my call, Come to the sea. Come Sail with me." -- John Paul Jones "Pardon him, Theodotus; he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature" --George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and Cleopatra" "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."--Friedrich Nietzsche "A kind Providence has placed in our breasts a hatred of the unjust and cruel, in order that we may preserve ourselves from cruelty and injustice. They who bear cruelty, are accomplices in it. The pretended gentleness which excludes that charitable rancour, produces an indifference which is half an approbation. They never will love where they ought to love, who do not hate where they ought to hate."--Edmund Burke “You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”--General Sir Charles Napier "Μολὼν λαβέ" -- Leonidas "Blogito Ergo Sum" -- Neptunus Lex Amazon AssociateFor the Effort!Winnar! Subscribe CategoriesPagesTagsacademy
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That’s one malformed link…
Right you were!
Thanks
Are you referring to the son’s question? I hit my head so hard when I read that one that I nearly gave myself a headache.
The only question I can come up with is, “Why was this foul excrescence not in jail?”
Not such a dumb question from my perspective…while raising daughters I’ve run into several infidel American fathers whose actions were only degrees away from this perv’s, though same in abusive kind.
I have to agree with Tom. I have known similar fathers, including a so-called “devout Christian” one who told his extraordinarily talented daughter that a career in classical music was equivalent to being a whore, and abused her in every way possible.
End result? She is no longer performing, wears layers of long-sleeved clothing even in summer, and suffers from injury-induced epilepsy.
I don’t buy your story for one second FbL. This happened in my hometown, where I grew up, where my girlfriend lives now, and this is very close to home, VERY CLOSE. I pray that I get the chance to confront this terrorist scumbag, and dispense the justice that our so-called “justice system” will inevitably fail to do. This is Texas, not Europistan, where honor killings happen with impunity. I swear on a stack of toilet Korans that I’d plug him in the head w/ .45ACP vengeance.
I was struck by this quote: ” “They always battle within themselves about what they need to do,” he said. “I call it the clash of the culture and that’s what it comes down to. The kids were born here and part of their blood is Muslim, part of their blood is Christian, and they are caught in between.”"
It’s not about religion. It’s about people who still follow a backwards culture versus those of us who have moved beyond an ancient and brutal concept of honor. As Tom and FbL pointed out, there are plenty of people from other religions who treat their children (and especially daughters) in similar ways. However, it must be pointed out that the Muslim version of this phenomenon has a disturbing propensity to kill the offending female instead of just being content with ruining her life.
Listening to Barber’s Adagio for Strings now, seems appropriate…
” Mr. Said often espoused his version of traditional Middle Eastern values, prompting speculation the murders were “honor killings,” an ancient Arab tribal custom in which the man of the family kills women he believes have shamed the family. The practice is now widely repudiated.”
Rather misleading statement. It leaves the impression that honor killings are rare.
Erik, I’m not sure why you don’t “buy” my story. I’m not apologist for extremism or female subjugation. It’s simply the truth of my experience.
I met the girl and father in question when she was 18 (at college) and observed her strange ways. I only learned the story in the bits and pieces she could tolerate speaking of before freaking out (we became very close), or I surely would have done what you describe when I encountered him.
As it was, when she was 19 she went home for Thanksgiving break and upon her return told me what her father had done to her over break. I was so angry, I kicked the wall we happened to be standing next to at the time. Fortunately, my toe ended up severely bruised, but not broken.
Her friends and I worked very hard to build her confidence and sense of self-preservation (she had almost none of either). The day she told us she had raised an ashtray in her hand and said, “You throw that at me and I will throw this at you,” (he backed down), we literally celebrated.
Believe me, he was a real sicko–an obstetrician who would cry over a stillborn child, then return home and beat on his children. Early on, his wife said “you lay a hand on me again and I will leave you.” But he continued to abuse the children, with her knowledge… all while regularly attending church and being a “pillar of the community.” Still is, the @#$&%$#%&$! We could never convince her to press charges…
I should have added…
Because the only time I met him was before I knew her history, I never had to control my rage in his presence. But I always said thereafter that if he and I and a weapon ever ended up in the same room, one of us wouldn’t leave alive. I honestly thank God that theory has never been tested–I suppose it’s easy to say such things when 1,000 miles separated us.
They can still arrest the mother and charge her as an accomplice. She knowingly brought them back to him. She’s just as bad, she did nothing to protect her two daughters.
She fely guilty for leaving, yet feels no guilt for their deaths. String her up to.
I didn’t mean to imply that only Arab fathers do that. Heck, if I could make a living out of traveling this country beating the @#$! out of people that hurt their kids, I’d never have a day off. But the reality is that female ‘honor killings’ are not uncommon in that culture (whether they are here or some other country). Every now and then you will read a press release from some Arab group condemning the practice, but they are usually weak and vaguely worded. Until such time as there is a large, coordinated effort to end the practice, that will always be the first thought when something like this happens.
Cap’n and Shipmates,
I’m already on record as noting ‘Honor Killings’ are as barbaric as the religion that brought the repugnant action to life. Be that as it may, Burke’s quote must be meant for someone with a higher soul than mine for I see not one, not two but three people whose actions and words belie the ‘repudiation’.
First – the father for comitting murder most foul upon his own daughters. May Satan have a special place reserved for such a creature.
Second – the son for supporting his father and his actions. Let alone putting up a smoke screen about ‘Honor Killing’ but indirectly supports the action.
Third – the mother who, at the age of 15, met and eventually married the piece of filth that gave her a son and two beautiful daughters. I read fear in her words, fear, not for her daughters, or herself, but for the man to whom she is wed.
If Said is still in the country (doubtfujl) he may, one day be caught. I suspect he is already in Egypt reaping the benefits of his actions.
islam delenda est!
Someday that sorry SOB will be sipping a cup of hot tea in the lower regions of Hell…it just ain’ t gonna happen soon enough.
This may be academic, but, isn’t the operative word here “killing”? Much like the operative word in “hate crime” is crime? Seems to me that it matters not so much on the why. He killed two beautiful women with their whole lives ahead of them. No reason on Earth can justify that. I think we get bogged down too much on that kind of stuff. Murder is murder. Plain and simple.
I think Lee has a point here.
The Bible says, “Thou shalt not murder.” Not “kill”. To kill indicates that the person being killed has done something to deserve their fate.
This father murdered those two beautiful girls. His wife was an accomplice in this act by not only bringing them back to the town but also by allowing the abuse to happen in the first place. She should face charges too.
Harsh? Possibly. But I don’t care. She failed to protect them. She took them back into harm’s way. The situation was made MORE dangerous by the fact that she fled and then chose to return with them.
There is a special place in Hell for the father AND the mother. And possibly the brother, should he choose to follow in his father’s footsteps.
FBL,
I have no doubt that there are evil abusive “infidel” men who abuse their children and their wives. In fact, I have no doubt that there are evil women out there that abuse their children.
The fact of the matter is though that it happens far more frequently with arab muslim men. They are backwards, and treat their female children far worse far more frequently than what happens in our society.
Jim C
Lex,
I know it is wrong to judge all by the actions of a few. Nevertheless, I agree with Sir Winston Churchill that Mohammedanism is the most backward and self defeating ideology on Earth.
How I wish Mohammed had never been born.
Susbunk
There is plenty of heartbreaking pain out there in the world and in our country to go around. I have no doubt that FBL’s friend is real as I have seen equally or even more devastating abuse purpetrated by sociopathic family members with it’s resulting life-long tortured emotional and spiritual suffering. There is plenty to legitimately rage at and one does not have far to look to find it but I think the point Lex was making in posting this article was that the murders were directly related to the islamic culture. “You will know them by their fruits”.
“Why is it every time an Arab father kills a daughter, it’s an honor killing?”
That’s my under-educated guess.
Riddle me this Batman.
Two daughters of questionable Muslim faith with a father with likely a high degree of said faith combined with fits of rage.
What is honor killing Alex!
When will we decide that this is unacceptable? Last week a report stated that it was estimated that 66,000 females had undergone “female circumcision”, that is they have had their clitorises crudely removed with sharp glass, razor blades, etc.
How many women are murdered every year in “honor killings”? The U.N. suspects it is about 5,000.
It is not going to be enough to arrest individuals. The source of the ideas that lead to these murders and mutilations must be dealt with. It is the challenge of our day.
To fight these things – honor killings & female circumsion, among others – is to fight the thing that spawns them. In the case of honor killings, it is to fight Islam. How do we take that on? How do you fight it?
By bringing these sick bastards to the same kind of swift “justice” that they served onto their poor victims – with extreme prejudice. I believe when this story first broke, Lex quoted General Sir Charles Napier – I repeat that quote here as an answer to the issue of making honor killings unacceptable:
Kris,
By all means, swift justice for the individuals, but you have to face the source of the ideas as well. To not do so is to treat the symptoms and ignore the underlying infection.
For a first-hand take on the culture of that area, I recommend reading “A Thousand Splendid Suns” and “The Kite Runner,” both by Khaled Hosseini. Both are compelling reads and I gather are pretty accurate windows into the Muslim culture.
I also agree with Fbl that this type of violence is not limited to one particular culture/faith – just this week I read of two instances where children were killed by their parents and the Muslim culture had nothing whatsoever to do with it. I submit that being female in a culture such as the Chinese under Mao’s one-child policy was no picnic either.
The bottom line is that *anyone* who visits this kind of violence on his/her children is deserving of the most severe justice. Blaming an entire culture for it might feel good, but I don’t believe it’s an accurate view of a more fundamental problem that runs across humankind.
Immediately after reading the article i thought, “Surely the authorities can get the “mother” on conspiracy to commit murder, or related. If they can’t catch that pus-bucket of a soul, at least get the wife.
I also agree with Brian above, although certainly not a Muslim supporter myself, this statement is clear…
“a more fundamental problem that runs across humankind”
I think in this case it’s OK to blame an entire culture – because it is the culture of Islam to endorse honor killings. It is part of who they are and it’s long past time for the world to make it unacceptable.
ASM826 – the underlying infection is their entire philosophy. Unless the supposedly more moderate Muslims worldwide (do they really exist?) start decrying these barbaric practices – the only choice would seem to be to destroy them from the outside. Messy business and I daresay the world won’t have the stomach for it.
But I also agree that any parent who kills their own child deserves a special place in a special hell.
“But I also agree that any parent who kills their own child deserves a special place in a special hell.”
It’s a safe bet that Moslems are a distinct minority in that room.
I don’t know but what this whole “culture” vs “religion” thing is nothing but a huge canard. After all, we are continually instructed that there is no separation of church and state in Islam because the faith touches on every aspect of the human condition. Except for when something like this comes up, or female genital mutilation and then we are told, well, that’s tribal, or cultural – it has nothing to do with Islam.
Well, which is it? Does one submit entirely to God’s will, or does one get to maintain his little bronze age barbarisms?
And it may be true that Mr. Said is nothing but a psychotically violent man, and that such men can commit heinous crimes regardless of their confession. But can it also be true that in a culture that lays claim to the word “civilized”, an elected parliament could twice quash laws seeking to punish such “honor” killings, as Jordan’s has?
Not for the first time, I wish that those who purport to represent the Islamic faith would express more outrage against those of their co-religionists who commit such crimes than against the rest of us for being sufficiently appalled to question them.
Thank you, Brian.
I don’t doubt that aspects of the more extremist Muslim ideology are a good excuse for someone with violent and abusive tendencies. But I am unwilling to move from that point to the idea that they are always the cause of those tendencies (though it gets muddy when one considers the extremely uneducated case who might become absorbed into societal group think to the point that he believes he’s enforcing right and wrong even when it goes against his instinct).
Evil is evil, and will find an excuse where it can. My friend’s father didn’t see himself as “enforcing Christianity,” but he used Christian-based judgmental language to attack my friend and justify his physical rages. For him, it was all about a combination of his emotional incontinence and her defiance (by embracing music performance). It became a dominance issue.
If these girls’ father really did sexually abuse them, it speaks to a pathology that existed long before they defied religious strictures that were the father’s supposed motivation. It even says in the article that he didn’t regularly prayer or attend services, etc.
Evil is evil and needs no encouragement.
And don’t say, “But he didn’t kill your friend.” There are far worse things for a victim than death.
(obviously I posted while Lex was writing).
Not for the first time, I wish that those who purport to represent the Islamic faith would express more outrage against those of their co-religionists who commit such crimes than against the rest of us for being sufficiently appalled to question them.
Ditto.
My feeble attempt in this conversation has not been in any way to protect Islam, but to try to show that the darkest expressions of those who claim the title are more a symptom of humanity’s evil capabilities than something that can be imposed from without.
Lex, I am not sure but I think I am saying the same thing you are and perhaps your comment was directed to someone else. Islam permeates what it overlays- be it Arabic, Persian, Pashtun or Malaysian. It overshadows the ethnic culture that preceded its introduction.
Not for the first time, I wish that those who purport to represent the Islamic faith would express more outrage against those of their co-religionists who commit such crimes than against the rest of us for being sufficiently appalled to question them.
The problem is, those who commit “honor” crimes like this are the product of and/or live within cultures (religious or otherwise) that discourage reasoned questioning — in the light of fact, known human nature, and history — of what the culture allows.
That lack of distributed scrutiny is the common thread that stitches these atrocities together, across cultural and religious seams.
Islam needs its Reformation … and so do a few in Christianity.
Kris,
Then we are in complete agreement, including the unpleasant fact that the rest of the world will not have the courage/will/vision to act.
Christopher Dawson aptly pointed out that religion is the cornerstone of culture, regardless of ilk. And it wasn’t too long ago that many Americans (rightly?) saw the Japanese culture as the world’s scourge and asked similar questions. Lots of differences in this new (resurrected) threat and it certainly appears to be more insidious. And once again there is a minority actively engaging it with force and without it.
FBL,
You are right. It is a symtom of humanity’s evil. But what to do about a religion or culture that endorses such barbarism?
Christianity doesn’t endorse, promote, or make excuses for that kind of behavior. Islam does…
Jim C
You are right. It is a symtom of humanity’s evil. But what to do about a religion or culture that endorses such barbarism?
Eradicate it. Like you would a plague.
HF6,
agreed!
Jim C
Hm. I was thinking more that the Shaw quote was applicable here than the Burke one. Although the call for forgiveness is difficult, I grant.