Credo
"Sign on, young man, and sail with me. The stature of our homeland is no more than the measure of ourselves. Our job is to keep her free. Our will is to keep the torch of freedom burning for all. To this solemn purpose we call on the young, the brave, the strong, and the free. Heed my call, Come to the sea. Come Sail with me." -- John Paul Jones
"Pardon him, Theodotus; he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature" --George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and Cleopatra"
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."--Friedrich Nietzsche
"A kind Providence has placed in our breasts a hatred of the unjust and cruel, in order that we may preserve ourselves from cruelty and injustice. They who bear cruelty, are accomplices in it. The pretended gentleness which excludes that charitable rancour, produces an indifference which is half an approbation. They never will love where they ought to love, who do not hate where they ought to hate."--Edmund Burke
“You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.”--General Sir Charles Napier
"Μολὼν λαβέ" -- Leonidas
"Blogito Ergo Sum" -- Neptunus Lex
Nice try, Lex. But then you enjoy getting and reading the NYT….what’s the diff?
Disgraceful, but it seems to be more normal than the exception nowadays.
It almost seems the MSM is taking their behavior cues from the likes of Howard Stern anymore. Well dressed shock jocks with a far better studio and reach.
Might this be a greater commentary on how we are so mind-numbed and self-absorbed (as a society) anymore that the only way to get “our” attention is to shock us into focusing on some “reporter?”
Thought: “If it’s not trashy, it’s not flashy.” (my 5th original thought – steal it if you need it, unless you’re a broadcaster/reporter/pundit/journalist/news anchor/blogger who makes money blogging looking for a new marketing line, then pay me $1M)
cottus, I’m not sure I follow you. I neither “get”, nor particularly enjoy reading the NYT. I read some of their articles on line, mostly for the sake of attempting to expose the biases and inaccuracies of the authors and editors.
And even if I did “get and enjoy” the Times, what would that have remotely to do with the instant issue?
While I agree that this type of commentary adds no value to the national debate, I find it ironic that during his show on MSNBC Keith Olbermann stated President Bush was “pimping General David Petraeus” yet suffered no suspension or reprimand from the network. In fact MSNBC still has the video up on their website:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20896378/
If they believe it is a phrase worth suspending a reporter over then that policy needs to apply to all of their reporters less they be accused of bias.
Lex … I’m tempted to pontificate here, having observed the changes in American society and communication for more than sixty years. And boyohboy has it ever changed.
I realize that virtually all old people love to lament the deterioration of public manners, beginning with the ancient Greeks. But I fervently agree with you about what’s happening to public manners today. This effort to be sensational rather than courteous has extended into society everywhere, and the daily newsfolks and TV folks are riding it hard. There’s now no difference between what we used to call ‘yellow journalism’ and today’s everyday journalism, whether practiced in print or on the airwaves.
As far as I can determine, the most courteous folks in our country right now, the people with the clearest sense of respectful communication, are our military, and I adduce Captain Richard Lund’s [the gentleman in charge of the Marine recruiting office in Berkeley] letter to the Code Pinkers as evidence of this. It’s an elegant takedown of some truly, disgracefully stupid people.
There are still some grown-ups in this country. Many of them wear uniforms. And some of us are older. We older ones are looking to the military to save us from the stupid and help guide us to a more civil, respectful society.
Marianne
It was an awful thing to say.
It was also true.
N
Marianne –
“We older ones are looking to the military to save us from the stupid and help guide us to a more civil, respectful society.”
Godwin isn’t just a meme, it’s the Law.
Be free out there.
Some quick thoughts:
1) MSNBC has no sense of objectivity and it’s becoming more and more apparent. They are commenting, not reporting or analyzing.
2) I think I understand where Shuster is coming from. He has changed his style incredibly over the past few months, veering away from reporting and trying to be more flip and engage in repartee like his mentor Chris Matthews. Shuster just doesn’t know how to do it or how he crosses the line.
3) Among Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC, MSNBC came in a distant third in the ratings for Super Tuesday. This is their bread and butter. More of this and the network will make major changes. Imus slipped and was fired. Matthews slipped about the comment he made about how HRC would never have been a Senator if her husband hadn’t cheated and he made an on-air apology. Erin Burnett on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” referred to President Bush as a “monkey” and apologized. Now it’s Shuster’s turn in the mea culpa race.
Whether this is inspired by Spineless Hypocricy, Fear of Retaliation or both, this is a great reason not to own GE stock.
Don’t be a part of it, don’t own GE, and don’t own any fund that owns GE.
It used to be: “Leave Chelsea out of the public discourse.” Fine, she was a kid and not part of the public debates. Now, they’ve put her front and center of the public ‘debate,’ and still they want hands off. No – they can’t or shouldn’t be allowed to have it both ways.
The comment was tasteless, but the message he was trying to portray of Chelsea being put out as an attractive front for the Hildabeast is well taken. And, as mentioned by others, there is absolutely no consistency in how that crappy station treats it’s on-air “talent” for the nasty things they say. They aren’t worth watching.
But aside from the Chelsea thing, when is anyone in the media going to start commenting on how the Clinton’s have gone from having nothing to being pretty much fabulously rich after just a few years out of office……there’s pay-back or pay-off there – and who needs or wants more of that in the White House?? Other than the People’s Army of China, that is.
Shipmates,
Funny, all this faux-outrage by HRH and her subjects. Just a few days back, she was taking live questions and calls, and a caller referred to president Bush as a “bastard”, and HRH just smiled from ear to ear.
MSNBC’s Keith Olberman has had many a spittle-flecked rage against many and varied conservatives, with nary a hint of concern about his language and/or mannerisms from his overlords, er, emploers, or anyone on the left. Just give him a little square moustache under his nose, and he could easily become Der OlberFuhrer….. Did you see the episode where he put on a Rush mask and gave the party salute live on TV?
No, all of this attitude comes from a culture of arrogance born from the self-aggrandizing and self-adoration of reporters and their peers. They see themselves as kingmakers, as the rightful defenders of the public against anything they deem harmful, of being, well, being “above” the rest of us.
In short, they are deluded and clueless, and unable to come to terms with the facts that they are nothing more than hired gossip-mongers, emploers who trade innuendo and tilted “jouralism” in exchange for pay. News whores, themselves pimped out by their employers in order to sell stories and advertisinf in order to turn a profit.
Schuster was simply a pot calling a kettle black. Sad, really, but reporters have only themselves to blame.
What Shuster said was entirely appropiate, (to use a PC word), as it was true. A little direct, maybe, but true none-the-less. (Could he have used the word Tout? Yeah, but we all like Pimp better). I am thinking the Clinton’s didn’t like it just for that reason; because it was just so true.
I seem to remember a story/fable about a king with no clothes? (Maybe I mis-remember?)
In any case, Harry Truman said. “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen”. Once again the Clinton’s are trying to have it both ways. (I could have said, trying to work both sides of the street). Oh my, there I went and said it! Let me run around apologising all over myself for being so direct.
Chelsea being put out as an attractive front
Thus proving the veracity of that whole “in the eye of the beholder” thing, says I.
Something else: The media types, and all adults in general, should just try to speak like adults and leave the street hip-hop junk talk to the young people. Only trouble comes from trying to be cool by using phrases like “pimping out,” which can be taken as an offense, and can mean a lot of different things to different people depending on who they are and where they come from. The guy turned out not to be so hip, did he?
I honestly don’t know quite how I feel about this one. Somehow saying it about parents and their daughter hits a little sharper to me, and it was a rude/unprofessional comment for Shuster to make. But I’m not convinced a suspension was in order, when taken in the context of the punishment or lack-there-of for egregoiusly rude/crude statements by other people on their network.
Guess I need to ponder it some more…
Good point, Steve C.
“Something else: The media types, and all adults in general, should just try to speak like adults and leave the street hip-hop junk talk to the young people. ”
You’re right, Steve C. And that should apply to politicians as well. Remember a couple of weeks ago when Romney was in a black neighborhood for a photo and said “Who let the dogs out… Who Who” Embarassing and inappropriate.
The problem with these comments is the inherent brevity required. Too long – lost impact, boredom, the roving eye moves on. Too short, misunderstanding – both ways. You watched some MSM TV and got grossed out, yet you read the NYT, but never has your indignation risen to the levels shown here. The [Sailor] doth protest too much, methinks.
We got the ex – Pres. daughter, until very recently, actively and vigorously ‘protected’ from ‘press’ scrutiny. OK fair enough – that’s the unwritten rule. Now said daughter, at least to my mind, has broken the unwritten rule and starts pimping for her Mom. I know this rounds a lot of corners, sorry – that brevity thing again. But in the world of shlocko socko grossest – man – wins, entertainment – passing – as – news, which is all Television is, this has become the norm. Adeodatus, AW1 Tim and others say it, above, better than I can.
Again, it appears that while Network news is here, for you, over the top – “We will not tolerate it”, you tolerate just fine the NYT*, who is just plain treasonous. You don’t tolerate mere words but you will tolerate actions, i.e. the dissemination of critical state secrets.
I live in a very different world than you do – “sort of being pimped out in some weird sort of way?” when applied to a partisan politician** (for darling Chelsea, who is certainly that at this point in time), I guess, simply does not trip my toleration limit. It has tripped yours. We can agree to disagree.
Far more important is the fact that you blog and I get to comment. You cannot imagine what a wonderful thing that is, at least for me. Like a moth to a flame I am drawn back day after day. Meant as a complete compliment, sir.
*The NYT is, of course, symbolic of a far greater nemesis.
**Is she or isn’t she? THAT is a question. But she is certainly at least a public person now, Steve C is right on.
What we tolerate and what our children eventually tolerate… it will be interesting to watch the difference.
As I ban music with lyrics in my home that call women ‘bitches’, and continue to tell my boys that it is rude, crude and socially unacceptable and explain WHY, there are 10 homes in America where parents are fine with their kids pumping that filth into their homes and saying ‘nada’ about it.
I hope my boys will respect women. It is hard as a parent to perpetually instill this value in a society where in the news ‘daughters are pimped out’ and music calls women ‘ho’s and bitches’.
Futile at times. It truly seems so.
I watch Olbermann a lot and I have to admit that I sure did not see anything obscene when I heard the guy say it.-Except thinking to myself ,”Yep that’s true”.
Seems to me that the reporter said it-the network disciplined him- end of story. It is no worse than what Ann Coulter writes and she gets rewarded for it.
“Female anger is the weathervane of truth”-Dick Masterson.
Good discussion of this issue can be found here.
folks,
Maybe this is part of a larger issue and I don’t have the data to back it up yet, but…
1) Hillary cries the day before New Hampshire and wins that primary
2) Hillary tears up two days before Super Tuesday and wins CA and other big states
3) this weekend there are several primaries plus the Potomac Primary on Tuesday and the HRC campaign explodes on this issue.
Are we just seeing a trend of victimhood to gain sympathetic voters?
On a side note, Lex, you are a far more patient host and tolerant blogger than I am. You are pretty much the only ‘mil/political blog’ I read daily. The civility of the discourse in your comments keeps me coming back as there are so many sides shown, with rational thinking, and without contempt.
That is very rare in this blog world. Only John Donovan has been able to keep it to the same, another I admire.
That said, to have someone come into my comments and display such boorish behavior as I’ve seen by one commenter, is not something I would tolerate. I think that the nasty tone and cutting remarks, is the equivalent, in my mind, of someone walking into my home and spitting on my floor.
But that’s just me…
Lex,
As Adeodatus briefly mentioned, the NBC network has a reporter who called President Bush a monkey this past November. Her name is Erin Burnett with CNBC and she received no punishment after she called the White House to apologize and appeared on the Conan O’Brien show. I find extremely hypocritical for MSNBC to suspend David Shuster while Erin Burnett gets off with an insincere apology. There is no difference in terms of policy because Shuster is with MSNBC and Burnett is with CNBC — both channels are part of the NBC network and share reporters. Burnett, for example, does small reports for MSNBC & NBC Nightly News.
Well, people of good will are free to disagree on this of course. But I for one will not use the public square to exchange vulgar tu quoques, nor engage in any class of race-you-to-the-bottom degradations of the national culture.
We ought to be better than that, and we frankly ought to hope for more.
Cottus, I appreciate your attempt to enlarge and clarify, but I still don’t know quite what you mean by “tolerating” the New York Times. I’ve castigated them often enough on this blog to classify it as a mini-obsession. I don’t know what else I’m supposed to do in my private character really, and dropping a JDAM on their headquarters does seem rather extra-judicial, from a law of war standpoint.
Ah, well.
“I don’t know what else I’m supposed to do in my private character really, and dropping a JDAM on their headquarters does seem rather extra-judicial, from a law of war standpoint.”
Extra-judicial perhaps; satisfying…hmm
Well Lex something as evil as the NY Times should require 2 or 3 JDAMS. Something that evil you don’t want to hurt….you want to ensure that you killed it.
You know what they’re like when they’re angry.
Curtis
Marianne, with due respect it’s not just old people who lament today’s lack of the common courtesies. This 44 year old does as well, every day. There has been a fundamental erosion of manners in all walks of life – you let someone in front of you in traffic, no acknowledgement of your graciousness. But you don’t let them in and watch that particular finger fly…it exists at all levels, so why are we surprised or shocked when it appears in the MSM.
But, in this case like a few others here – it was crude yes but I don’t disagree with the “spirit” of the message. The Clintons can dish it but they can’t take it. Best to stick with more formal points of language, but in the end Schuster spoke the truth.
What Kris said. Why though? Is it lack of parenting skills? Is it the MTV/Reality crap TV inundating us? Is it Simon Cowell? I, for one, would like to see an embracing of decency and common courtesies, but, from time to time I too fall prey to the nastiness, and act out, verbally, or in single digit form (electronically from time to time too). Not proud of it, just a reality of day to day life. Take here, for example, some embrace a form of electronic courage that would not be present if they were facing the group in a room. I don’t know what the answer is, all I can do is try to raise my own kids to be better than I have, be more patient, kind, and foregiving. One day at a time. Someone I listen to once said “I’m a bad person that struggles each day to be good.” I think there is a bit of that in all of us. I know there is in myself.
Something else to ponder: The behavior of the network in question might just reflect that network’s, and the industry in general, belief or knowledge that if they don’t do something to placate Hillary – LOOK OUT IF SHE WINS. She is not known for being particularly kind to those she doesn’t like. This should bother people.
I don’t know what the answer is. What I do know is my own heart and my heart says is the comment was out of bounds and inappropriate, regardless of one’s opinion of Bill, Hillary, or their decisions regarding their daughter.
Do I dislike the Clintons? Yes.
Do I think their double standard regarding the press’ handling of Chelsea is ridiculous? Yes.
Do I think they are, in fact ‘pimping her out’? In a sense, yes.
Do I think what Mr. Shuster said was wrong? Yes.
But until we, as a society, put our foot down and insist that his behavior (and others like it) will no longer be tolerated, we will continue to be inundated with it. Why? Because we have become lazy. It is easier (and more comfortable) to ignore it and move on than it is to stop and say, “Excuse me, that was uncalled for and inappropriate and we will not tolerate that.”
And now, we sit here, debating whether referring to a parent’s decision to include their daughter in their campaign is worthy of the comment that they are ‘pimping her out’ instead of taking a collective stand against such crude and disgusting language.
Because it’s easier and more comfortable.
Skippy,
re “I watch Olbermann a lot”
have you tried therapy?
b2
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the – Web Reconnaissance for 02/11/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.
B2,
It comes on over here in the morning, so its easy to have on in the background while I am working. 1 hour of of solid Bush bashing is great therapy. Gets my blood pumping for the rest of the day.
If it makes you feel any better Hannity comes on right after. How’s that for “fair and balanced”. Fortunately for me-I usually have to leave early on into Hannity though.
Skippy,
As an alternative, recommend you watch Japanese TV. It’s got to be better than watching that 1/2 rate ESPN hack- Herr Olbermann the pathetic Doberman. He has a head meant to be slapped!
b2
I watch Japanese TV in the evenings-mornings its is just food and game shows-evening TV on TV Tokyo is more fun!