The city of Berkeley has had a busy week or so of it. Today the City Council went on record by a 7-2 vote to say that, no, US Marines aren’t really inherently evil, and yes, they can stick around for a while longer in their stupid recruiting station. They couldn’t quite muster the political will to apologize for ever having thought differently however.
Fair enough.
The vote gathered an assortment of the usual Code Pink loons and ANSWER goons, who themselves were opposed by pro-troop activists. Apparently Berkeley High School found the event educational enough to suspend classes long enough to let students, variously, sketch the protests or take part in them.
There was an almost charming naivete on the faces of some of the students, especially as contrasted to the perfidious partisans of ANSWER, not to mention the addle-pated and childlike simpletons from Code Pink. The kids you can forgive – they are old enough to know that war is awful of course, but not yet old enough or reflective enough to have fully thought through the consequences of losing one, not for ourselves, nor for those who dared to believe that we were serious about all of that democracy and self-determination guff.
I have to admit that this photo gave me pause however:
Flag burning is, of course, constitutionally protected speech. And it doesn’t anger me so much as it makes me sad: That flag stands for all of us. For you and me.
There are 13 stripes that stand for the 13 original colonies, and the bold citizens thereof who swore their lives, fortunes and sacred honor to throw off the yoke of tyranny in a noble experiment in personal freedom and self-government. The red in those stripes stands for hardiness and valor, while the white testifies to purity and innocence – always a goal, even if not always a destination. The blue canton symbolizes vigilance, perserverence and justice. It carries 50 white stars, themselves symbols of celestial perfection and which in combination with the canton speak to the great union of many several; states, colors, creeds and philosophies.
It stands for mothers who crossed the country to show up in Berkeley to support their soldiers living and dead. It stands for Code Pink and even ANSWER, who have the right to express their opinions. It stands for the truly radical notion of a government of, for and by the people. It stands for the waves of young men and women who have fought and died in wars against slavery, oppression, militarism and fascism, without whose sacrifice the world would be a far poorer and uglier place.
It stands for labor unions that fought against a different form of oppression to ensure that the working class got a fair shake. It stands for immigrants who saw that in that flag the chance to build better lives for themselves and their families. That flag stands for freedom and democracy. In some strange way, it even stands for the constitutionally protected right of porridge-brained high school students who have never known a moment’s hardship, nor an instant’s introspection, to burn it.
There was never anything made by the hand of man so perfect that the evil among us could not turn it to their own uses. Villains have wrapped themselves in that flag to support their base ambitions and petty cruelties. Politicians and soldiers have committed crimes under the color of that flag’s authority. But those that did so usurped the flag without fundamentally changing the fact that the it represents the noblest of human ideals.
And so I’d like to ask that student something: If you burn the flag of the land that gave you birth, little girl, the flag of the community that shelters you, your neighbors’ flag, the flag of those sworn to defend your rights at the cost of their own lives, the flag that generations of your predecessors lived under in individual freedom and common hope against all of mankind’s wretched historical precedents – what then will you raise in its place?
I’ll give you some time.
Lex,
I don’t think that she knows any of that. They don’t teach the kind of History in schools these days that they taught you and me. I don’t think that she’s even trying to make some type of statement. She’s probably burning that flag because someone put her up to it or that she thinks that it makes her look cool. In her case ignorance really is bliss.
Cap’n,
Very well put, sir. While I understand and agree that the right exists to burn our flag, and I have and will again fight for that right, I often wonder if I could keep my emotions in check if I were in close proximity. I have two girls about that age, either of which would more likely than not put that fire out with that girl’s a$$. Cause they know what that right has cost us. They’ll be out to see me before I go wheels up, and we may have to take a ride up to Berkeley to say hi to the Marines.
Why, her OWN flag, of course.
Right now she thinks that she is strong enough to face the World and all its horrors without needing anything that came before she arrived on the scene.
So fresh, shiny, and useless.
Well said, Joan. You beat me to it (and probably put it a bit more succinctly).
“Mens sibi conscia recti”
How utterly sad, especially since it appears to be an affectation on her part. True distress, symbolized by burning of the flag, is not due to being let out of school early.
So many rights, so little time.
I agree with what Jim Collins wrote (above). That is why after much thought and serious consideration, I chose to home school my children.
For those of you who don’t understand: You are speaking of Berkeley and it’s residents…and could be speaking of several other cities and towns in this country where the children are victims of the educational systems run by radicals from the 60′s, as well as being victims of their parents & the local society that does not like this country.
Because of the upbringing of such “kids” this country has a major problem – hey, look how swell you like the government with adults such as Nancy Pelosi (who represents an area close to Berkeley). The “reality” these people see is radically different from anyone who understands that the USA might not be perfect but that it is a far cry from places such as Russia. These ‘kids’ are tomorrow’s adults who will have jobs involving security issues and voting power. We’ve got a problem and it is growing and will take generations to be rid of.
I fortunately have an almost daily example of kids this young ladies age who would be horrified and just possibly violent but seeing this.
Those children are the future of this country, not this non-thinking youth.
I’ll keep telling myself that. Maybe it’s even true…
Well said Capt’n. We don’t have to like what these people are doing and saying but myself and many more here have defended and continue to defend their right to be obnoxious. I just keep telling myself that that is what seperates my shipmates here and me from these people. To many of us, the military was not a job (or an adventure) but a true calling to, in a small way, partially repay our country for all it has provided us.
Thank you, Lex, for that elegant essay. When the Noisemakers of the Left begin to make me really depressed about our country’s future, reading your blog stabilizes me once more.
We will live through this, through flag-burning, through the “Piss-Christ” so-called examples that are called Art, through irrelevant 1960s hippies’ old age spasms and their failure to educate our children, even though they have largely taken over our educational system We’ll live through all that rubbish, because we still have a reservoir of gallantry, bravery and lasting belief in the glorious Experiment that is this country. And that is our Military heroes — you and your kindly and courteous commentators cheer my heart daily.
And that little girl should probably be spanked. But her parents probably don’t know how to do that, since they probably weren’t spanked themselves. Sad to report, I was spanked occasionally in my early youth [3 years, 4 years old] spanked by a gentle fatherly hand. I didn’t turn out so badly, for a child who was a real little hellion, and wouldn’t listen until the fatherly hand got my attention. And I listened, because I adored my father.
Oh heck. That “little girl” is probably a teenager, and that’s much too old for such stuff. It would be far better to take her to a military hospital and show her the sacrifices which have been made for her safety and for that flag she burns.
Marianne
…what they said, Lex, “ALL of the above!”
As for her flag, why it may even be the same as Obama’s: http://michellemalkin.com/2008/02/12/where-to-buy-a-che-cuba-flag/
I know it’s protected by the First Amendment, but it just fills me with anger and sadness to see anyone burn our flag. Especially someone with such dead eyes as hers. She isn’t connected to anything in her world – and what fills me with fear is, she fully represents the future of the country.
Self absorbed, disconnected with reality. God help us all.
I don’t believe she really cares all that much about what she’s doing… but from the looks of her, take away her access to Sephora and you’ll see some real “depth of feeling”.
The glassy eyes caught my attention also and begged the question, “wonder what else she’s been burning?”
Clueless rebellion likely instigated by another misguided friend whom she desperately wants to impress.
From what I can tell, there’s another flag in the background. It appears to be Old Glory, unharmed. Unharmed in my heart, too, despite this person’s action.
What a revealing and obscene photo. It will probably come back to haunt her someday.
“It would be far better to take her to a military hospital and show her the sacrifices which have been made for her safety and for that flag she burns”…it would be well worth a try, but in general, people like this live in a closed mental system which is immune to facts and to logic. Confronted with he people in the military hospital, they will respond: “See? It proves we were right about the war. This is the fault of Bush and the corporations.”
Arthur Koestler, who was once a Communist, knew a lot about closed systems.
Just because flag burning is protected speech doesn’t mean the flag burner doesn’t deserve to have their ass kicked. The little twit in the photo included. People used to die keeping that flag from hitting the ground in battle.
Maybe it was the family I was blessed with, maybe I actually ran into a couple of key teachers who weren’t brainwashing but really teaching.
Maybe I just read too much, and think about the world.
All I know is that I’ve never gone through a rebel-against culture, down with the man yadda yadda yadda phase.
I am rebelling though, in my own way. Maybe the insanity propagated by that dying 60s misguided ideology will be what the youth begin rebelling against soon. There are many ways to serve, and many fine young men and women are listening. Everyone that reads here knows more than one.
I am not advocating violence but it still is deserved.
Geo6, et al; “flag on the ground”, etc.
Even ol George 1st. didn’t get it and he was a President!
Remember that “political kerfuffel” back before clinton about the flag on the floor in front of a podium whereon there was a book? An art student and his teacher set that up. Everyone missed the point. It was a test. Who, if anyone, seeing that would pick the flag up off the floor? Turns out, nobody.
How many actually stood on the flag to scribble some inane comment in the book? Almost all. Damn! Even the President didn’t get it! And, most of congress along with him. (The dumb bastards called for a constitutional amendment against flag burning. Yeah, that’ll fix it!).
So, I can’t really hollar at some brain-dead little “Chicklette” mindlessly burning the flag in Berkley. She’s a child of her times. And, thinking of your earlier post Lex, we do become what we tolerate. And, we deserve it!
What-the-hell.
To quote Tony Soprano in a situation where his daughter was considering going to Berkeley. One family member said: “Lots of Nobel Prize winners have come from there…..”
Tony’s reply: “Nobel Prize for what? Packing fudge?”
Misguided youth often perform and enjoy outrageous and sometimes offensive actions, not so much as a result of any well-thought reasoning or purpose, but primarily for the pure “shock value” of their actions. That, and the volatile, fueled excitement of a mob mentality common in a public demonstration. Despite the offensiveness of this young girl’s action, perhaps she should be forgiven…. for she knows not what she does.
We should all be thankful that flag burning is a far more rare occurrence than what I witnessed during the ’60′s. Thus I find it surprising how many commenters here extrapolate this now isolated and somewhat rare event into a general condemnation of our national school systems, a general condemnation of the entire ’60′s generation, a condemnation of family values, and even calls for more corporal punishment.
Wow. That foolish girl certainly attained her shock-value purpose well beyond her expectations, as the several post hoc ergo propter hoc (“after this, therefore because of this”) logical fallacies listed above reveal.
Some observations: I doubt her parents were sixties’ radicals, since she is a little young to likely be progeny of that generation. My visits to public schools over the years revealed that students recite the Pledge of Allegiance daily, in unison – which is the antithesis of what this girl did. (How often do you recite the pledge?) Many of the old radicals are now retired or have changed politics. Even in the best of families, children do not necessarily always follow the political and social beliefs of their parents. Ironically, although I served my country during the Sixties while a few of my former college friends were anti-war activists, they are today somewhat Conservative Republicans, while I have gravitated to the Liberal Left. (And we’re all still friends.)
For the record, I try not to let the offensive but benign, sad, and foolish actions of this ignorant girl (and random others) affect me too much. I should not allow them the satisfaction. And I am one who has served under, and now for many years proudly flies our nation’s Flag in front of our home, on a tall flagpole 24 hours a day and illuminated by two brilliant spotlights…. nevertheless, I would still invite her into our home to explain what she obviously cannot yet know.
You guys be nice to Jennifer.. she is from the “Valley” and was in San Francisco for a tour of the bridges and China Town. She is my BFF and she is so not ready for anger and war. She doesn’t have time to track the issues because she is spending all her time trying to figure out how to get some more money from her mom to buy some more minutes for her text message addiction.
1. W R U Jen? ;-^
2. I’m h8ting on the Warmongers. W R U? .-)
1. In SanDimas. Going to the mall. :-}
2. that is so 5 minutes ago! ;-(
1. See any cute boys?
2. No, only mean Soljrs [>:-O
2. My Che rag is blowing in my eyes -(
1. Shoot the scene g’frend we will U tube when U get home. !-)
2. Okay BFF
1. Toodles )
You know you could probably make a case for kicking a flag burner’s ass being a form of speech or expression. I wonder if it would be covered by the First Amendment.
This is pure and simple an example of poor parenting.
i agree completely with fliterman.
seriously. i really do.
(btw, every morning at 0730, one of our local radio stations plays a recording of a classroom reciting the Pledge. different classroom every day. and every day i tune in and recite it right along with them)
(MORE radio stations could do that, ya know, if they knew that was what their audience wanted)
You can imagine that I have had many conversations concerning the burning of the Colors.
Personally, I hold the Colors in the same high esteem as many readers here, fully understanding the sacrifices she has witnessed, and the nobility for which she stands. I hold her in the highest regard, and honor and treasure all that she stands for. I wish that protestors would come up with a more imaginative way to express their displeasure…
HOWEVER…
The Constitution and Bill of Rights is a double-edged affair. Sometimes the folks doing the talking are saying things that I do not agree with one wit (the whole “I don’t agree with a word you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it…”)
Sooo… I submit this, my own conclusion:
“When the government denies a citizen the right to burn the Colors in protest, then it becomes that which those Colors stand against.”
Freedom… Not always milk and honey…
She’ll never be able to run for public office.
I too am in the somewhat uncomfortable position of agreeing completely with the incorrigibly verbose filterman…(see comment # 23 above) .
Might be an age thing… or maybe its because I’m surrounded by that attitude… but I simply cannot get overly exercised by the antics of one vacuous left coast twerp. Best
Sgt. B has stated it well and true.
“She’ll never be able to run for public office” except in the bay area, santa cruz, hollywood,
One thing we need to keep in mind is that, at least in berkeley and surrounding areas, many of these people aren’t misguided youngsters, they are kids who are taught marxism by their parents, their schools and their local governments.
One of the many things I appreciate and enjoy about this forum is the breath of viewpoints. Fliterman, Sgt. B and Snake Eater (all of whom I have disagreed with in the past) offered my thoughts significantly more elloquently than I could have done.
My best and highest respect to each of you for having the intelligence, respect and courtesy to have a conversation (even a virtual one) on a sensitive subject without coming to blows (at least among yourselves, albeit a blow or two was suggested against the student whose photograph began Lex’s essay). It happens rarely. I count myself lucky to have found such a place.
Semper fi
It’s no accident this blog is characterized by civil discourse. Consider the blogger. Quality begets quality.
OAM,
I agree, it’s nice that we can gather here virtually and discuss this sort of thing.
That being said, I have to take issue with one thing that fliterman said. This sort of thing really isn’t all that uncommon. Maybe the specific action of burning the flag isn’t all that common, but the trashing of America is. Look at what the Berkley city council has done, look at what code pink and ANSWER have done. These things are all along the same lines of burning that flag.
They have the right to do this stuff. As has been said above, you all have fought for their right to do these disgraceful things, and the constitution allows it. It’s still not right though.
What has happened to the youth of this country that they think that spitting on the sacrifices made by scores of men and women — men and women that have given their all — is okay? When did this sort of political speech become not only acceptable, but “the norm” amoung those that feel it neccessary to criticise our nation?
Do they realise what our military men and women go through every day in order to provide them these freedoms? Do they care? Unfortunately, I don’t think they do.
Jim C
OaM, Thanks for the kind thoughts and all… but suggest not making a habit of it for two reasons:
1 filterman has a high enough regard for himself already, and
2 .Observing a Marine having a Kumbaya moment is a rather unsettling event for this old Dog.
Best ( ICSFTH)
PS, Mike 47 is right on…we all tend to hang out with the like minded.
Jim C
It became the norm when certain boats were boarded by not well disguised “terrorists” and their cargo dumped uncermoniously into Boston Harbor. It became the norm when people honestly debated whether it was grammatically correct to say “the United States is…” versus “the United States are . . .” It became the norm for people to disagree with their government when the Constitution guaranteed that right in the First Amendment. It became the norm when Chief Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes crafted the very idea of the marketplace of ideas.
Civilians, with a few exceptions, have no idea the sacrifices our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines make. I lived off-base near Camp Pendleton in the early and mid 80s on a corporal’s salary because there was not enough NCO housing on base. Half my check every month went to rent. The rest bought food, gas, utilities. Sure the work clothes looked cool, but there was not a lot of play in the budget.
I am not willing to advocate the punishment, censorship, or any other threat to the rights of anyone to speak her mind (no matter her age, ethnicity, race, religion or upbringing). Censorship is not an answer. It is right because the Constitution says it is right.
What is wrong is any attempt to shut them down because we may disagree with the message.
That I’ll fight you over.
R/S
OAM
Snake Eater,
Hope the bluster in my later post mollified your upset.
Respects
OAM
I’m not sure how to begin this comment. I’m partly thrown off by the fact that filterman and SE are on the same page. That’s a little freaky, if you ask me.
I work with teenagers. I have worked with teenagers ever since I was a teenager. The teens I work with now would be appalled at this girl’s actions even though many of them do not agree with our reasons for being in Iraq (we’ve had many discussions about this). The teens I know are strong, upstanding, intelligent people. My hope and belief is that the girl in the picture is an anomaly and not the norm (though maybe she is in Berkeley).
Daniel Webster once said “God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.” I think the beauty of this country is that liberty is not only granted to those ready to guard and defend it but also to those who have no concept of what liberty truly is.
But that liberty is granted to those who have no concept of it because there ARE people who DO guard and defend it.
OaM, I am indeed mollified… God’s in his heaven – all’s right with the/my world. Best
I’ve had kids burn a number of flags in my day. Still do, every so often.
Usually at night. We gather them around the campfire and have a couple of the kids bring the flag out. If the flag is not completely a rag we run it up a flagpole or just have the kids hold it up, salute, and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. If known, the history of that particular flag is told. Then it goes on the fire, and everyone salutes until it is consumed.
With the Cub Scouts, the parents are usually around. It’s the one time I get them to shut up and pay attention. Most of them have never seen it done before. But then the adults are the ones doing the honors. With the Boy Scouts, I get the boys themselves to do the job. I think it sinks in more that way.
Not all the parents share my viewpoints on politics. But I’ve never had one show disrespect.
RonF ~ I’m impressed that you can get Cub Scouts to shut up.
I sent your post to a friend and I thought his reply was brilliant. Here it is:
“Very poignant and I guarantee they’ve never thought it through.
I can only guess their flag would include a hammer, sickle, crescent moon, and the Earth Mother Gaia.
Whatever it is I hope they figure it out soon…
So I can burn it.”