Comments on: If a 20mm shell falls in the desert http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/ The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy! Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:11:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mike http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/comment-page-1/#comment-423937 Mike Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:09:21 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/#comment-423937 Unfortunately, there are still some things that aren't equal. Women, for example, can get out of a deployment simply by getting pregnant. While most men are reluctant to, say, break an arm or a leg to avoid a 6-8 month cruise (although it's certainly not unheard of), it's much less difficult for a woman to avoid one. If you've read the first chapter of Rhythms, talking about the port and starboard watch rotations, that was me. Fully 20% (8 of the 40) women on my amphib suddenly became pregnant within the three months before my last deployment. One of those 8 happened to be the third person in my watch rotation, leaving me "6-and-6" for an entire cruise. That meant every night from 2345 until 0645 I was on watch, followed by breakfast, quarters, try to get my scheduled work in my shop done, and eat lunch, before I went back on from 1145 to 1745. From 1745-2345 I got to eat, shower, and sleep. For six months. I disagree with putting someone in a position from with they can so easily back out, to the detriment of the others in that position. You're supposed to be able to count on the people you serve with, and I learned that I could not count on a full 20% of one group of those people. Unfortunately, there are still some things that aren’t equal. Women, for example, can get out of a deployment simply by getting pregnant.

While most men are reluctant to, say, break an arm or a leg to avoid a 6-8 month cruise (although it’s certainly not unheard of), it’s much less difficult for a woman to avoid one. If you’ve read the first chapter of Rhythms, talking about the port and starboard watch rotations, that was me. Fully 20% (8 of the 40) women on my amphib suddenly became pregnant within the three months before my last deployment. One of those 8 happened to be the third person in my watch rotation, leaving me “6-and-6″ for an entire cruise. That meant every night from 2345 until 0645 I was on watch, followed by breakfast, quarters, try to get my scheduled work in my shop done, and eat lunch, before I went back on from 1145 to 1745. From 1745-2345 I got to eat, shower, and sleep. For six months.

I disagree with putting someone in a position from with they can so easily back out, to the detriment of the others in that position. You’re supposed to be able to count on the people you serve with, and I learned that I could not count on a full 20% of one group of those people.

]]> By: Snake Eater http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/comment-page-1/#comment-423936 Snake Eater Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:55:46 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/#comment-423936 OaM, I admint I might have over reacted to Byrons comment # 6 but I my defense we all come at things from our own persepective. I remember well the late forties and early fiftes... well before TV ...before a lot of what we take for normal today existed... President Truman's mortorcade passing through our little suburb during the 1952 election effort....I was ten and my whole school all turned out...the teachers distain for the then lame duck habidashier(sp) evident to even the dullest amoung us...I know I'm rambling ...but things were different. Women served, of course, but never in combat... it was the way it was and should always be but of of course that's not how it turned out... and I'm still having trouble with it. Best PS, Agree co-ed BCT is a bummer OaM, I admint I might have over reacted to Byrons comment # 6 but I my defense we all come at things from our own persepective. I remember well the late forties and early fiftes… well before TV …before a lot of what we take for normal today existed… President Truman’s mortorcade passing through our little suburb during the 1952 election effort….I was ten and my whole school all turned out…the teachers distain for the then lame duck habidashier(sp) evident to even the dullest amoung us…I know I’m rambling …but things were different. Women served, of course, but never in combat… it was the way it was and should always be but of of course that’s not how it turned out… and I’m still having trouble with it. Best

PS, Agree co-ed BCT is a bummer

]]> By: Tom G. http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/comment-page-1/#comment-423935 Tom G. Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:00:24 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/#comment-423935 Hehe, Snake...way too funny. Hehe, Snake…way too funny.

]]> By: Bandit 32 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/comment-page-1/#comment-423934 Bandit 32 Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:07:18 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/#comment-423934 Airplanes and helicopters don't really care about the sex of a person flying them. They only care about being flown well. As a helicopter pilot (slicks, guns, and scouts) with almost three years and 2400 hours of combat flying in Vietnam, about two years as a gunnery instructor at Ft. Rucker, and an Infantry officer I think I have a little perspective on the situation. I knew on my first opposed CA in RVN that I did not want to sit there and be a target for the next 358 days. As soon as I could I went to guns. Other pilots did not want to take the responsibility for killing people. As long as standards are consistent and met it is attitude that makes you a gun pilot. I saw this in Vietnam and in training. It has nothing to do with courage or sex, just attitude. Airplanes and helicopters don’t really care about the sex of a person flying them. They only care about being flown well. As a helicopter pilot (slicks, guns, and scouts) with almost three years and 2400 hours of combat flying in Vietnam, about two years as a gunnery instructor at Ft. Rucker, and an Infantry officer I think I have a little perspective on the situation.
I knew on my first opposed CA in RVN that I did not want to sit there and be a target for the next 358 days. As soon as I could I went to guns. Other pilots did not want to take the responsibility for killing people. As long as standards are consistent and met it is attitude that makes you a gun pilot. I saw this in Vietnam and in training. It has nothing to do with courage or sex, just attitude.

]]> By: Advokaat http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/comment-page-1/#comment-423938 Advokaat Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:31:15 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/#comment-423938 I recently read a book, the title of which escapes me at the moment, that pretty thoroughly debunked Marshall's "study" that suggested that only 10% of American ground troops in WWII fired their weapons. That could explain the difference between the WWII study and the Viet Nam study - Marshall was, by all accounts, very touchy about having his "research" and "findings" challenged. I recently read a book, the title of which escapes me at the moment, that pretty thoroughly debunked Marshall’s “study” that suggested that only 10% of American ground troops in WWII fired their weapons.

That could explain the difference between the WWII study and the Viet Nam study – Marshall was, by all accounts, very touchy about having his “research” and “findings” challenged.

]]> By: Once a Marine http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/comment-page-1/#comment-423933 Once a Marine Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:31:36 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/02/24/if-a-20mm-shell-falls-in-the-desert/#comment-423933 C'mon Snake, give the boy a break. The Marine Corps has been....slow....in integrating women into the culture. First BAMs and then WMs. Always a separate classification. We came slowly to the 21st Century but have arrived with the rest of the gear at last. Although we train women to be rifle<em>men</em>, we still don't have women and men complete basic training together, unlike our <a href="http://www.army.mil/women/newera.html" rel="nofollow">Big Brother</a>. So pehaps that's the difference our friend speaks of. Or maybe our Leaders have figured a way during OCS or the Basic School, or Recruit Training to strip away part of the <a href="http://people.howstuffworks.com/women.htm" rel="nofollow">X chromosome</a> but leave the anatomy the same? Who knows? OAM C’mon Snake, give the boy a break. The Marine Corps has been….slow….in integrating women into the culture. First BAMs and then WMs. Always a separate classification. We came slowly to the 21st Century but have arrived with the rest of the gear at last. Although we train women to be riflemen, we still don’t have women and men complete basic training together, unlike our Big Brother. So pehaps that’s the difference our friend speaks of.

Or maybe our Leaders have figured a way during OCS or the Basic School, or Recruit Training to strip away part of the X chromosome but leave the anatomy the same? Who knows?

OAM

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