During the Cold War, India was the largest of the so-called “non-aligned” states that took no open position in the ideological clash of the epoch. Despite their neutrality, India’s government remained military clients of the Soviet Union. In gratitude for their custom, the USSR showered India with capable but low cost ships, aircraft and air defense systems.
To maintain regional balance, the US stiffly embraced an alternating series of quasi-democratic thugocracies and military juntas in neighboring Pakistan. Thus we were left with the bizarre spectacle of the world’s oldest democracy arrayed alongside the enemy of the world’s largest democracy, which was itself a client state of the world’s largest tyranny.
That was the Cold War – you couldn’t make it up if you tried.
To this day, India remains in the market for Russian military exports, having spent billions on the acquisition of a Soviet-era aircraft carrier and an air wing to fly from her – billions that have apparently vanished with nothing to show for them. The Indians are clearly unhappy, but having spent so much on the purchase of the ex-RFS Admiral Gorshkov and a navalized MiG-29K to fly off her that to go back on the deal “were as tedious as go o’er.”
But if the Weekly Standard rumor mill is right, there might be a change in the air:
According to numerous sources inside India, when U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates visits New Delhi late in February (provided his Tuesday Potomac Primary Day broken shoulder does not alter his itinerary) he will be carrying a signed letter from U.S. President George W. Bush offering a better deal for India than the one they have been struggling to get out of Moscow for four years now. The Indian Navy will reportedly be offered the soon-to-be decommissioned USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63) aircraft carrier for free–provided the Indian Navy will agree to purchase 65 of the newest model Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornets to be operated off of it.
If true–and if New Delhi accepts–this can do more than just sink the Russian carrier deal and the MiG-29K contract. The Indian Air Force (IAF) are deep in the throes of a tender to purchase almost 200 new fighter aircraft, with Boeing and RSK-MiG both in the field of six contenders. An order of 200 fighter airplanes is unheard of–larger than any such export sale in more than 20 years. In an era where sales of 12, 20, or 40 fighters are more common, this is the PowerBall Lotto of export competitions.
A market competition based on cost, performance and schedule rather than ideology and oligarchical nepotism. Huh.
I wonder how that’s going to go?
Gahlran @ InfoDissem wrote of the possibility of Kitty going to India, about a month ago. Good on him for makin the first public ripples in the pool. Since then, I’ve mentioned Kitty’s potential to several in my local circle and you should see the grins!
The US has to keep India close within our realm. Support of her democracy is essential if for no other reasons than (1.) to contain China from its west and (2.) to continue the influx of highly technically competent thinkers to our high tech companies. India has more engineering PHDs per acre than any place on earth, and we can surely make use of them.
Indians living here are becoming very loyal to our way of thinking, but they cannot understand our attraction to the Paks.
Neither can I, for that matter.
Not my Kitty Hawk!!! I can’t bear to think of her to be sold to anyone. I’m sick to my stomach.
Now, another Navy (sadly) in decline we took a few pages from sold off a *perfectly good* bird farm to the Indians some years ago. To the Indian Navy’s credit, they did tremendous work polishing that hunk of steel up for their own use. Other than get underway though, they sure don’t do much with it. Other than boost Boeing and save us the recycling fee, what do we gain? For that matter, what do the Indians gain other than extending their naval air capability another 10 years with no follow-on in sight? I’d love to be the contractor who gets hired to write and print all of the INS instruction manuals for that boat…and the air wing. Oh, wait a tick, the light just clicked on: this is just the next step in outsourcing! Dern clever, what with U.S. labor costs being so expensive and all.
Wow, I rode the Sh!^^y Kitty back in the early 90’s, and it was old back then. I’d hate to see the engineering/maintenance nightmare it would become if the Indians take it into service. That may do more to hurt relations than help.
Too bad we broke up all those F-14’s. We should have offered those instead of the new Rino’s.
At least they won’t need to be translated from English (acronyms aside), they have more English speakers than we do…
I’m not smart enough to understand all the consequences (intended or otherwise) but this is some real “out of the box” thinking that has major strategic and economic implications.
This must have been a real battle to try to push through the bureaucracy, let alone the political side of things. Nice to see some thinkers inside the beltway are still at work.
Now if the Indians buy a big flock of aircraft, will that make the unit cost a lot less if Lex’s kid needs a bird to fly in a few years?
We sure could use some more aircraft, even if they are the (now getting venerable) F/A-18s.
I weep at the idea of the Kitty Hawk becoming INS Whatever they call it.
Plus I don’t understand how it helps to help a potential enemy improve their arsenal.
India may not be as much of an opposing power as she was-but she is no friend to the US either.
Skippy/SoCal Pir8:
I too weep with you. Having attended the decomissioning of USS America years ago, having 700+ traps and service aboard her from 0-1 through 0-6, it was like a significant part of my life being taken away from me. Hopefully, if Kitty Hawks lives on, the memories of those who served aboard will also live on. Buried somewhere in the cold, hard steel, but alive nevertheless. I prefer that KH lives on rather than be consigned to the scrap heap or the cold deep.
I’ll put it this way. India is a natural ally of the United States. Both nations share a colonial past, are democracies, and have China as a long-range rival. Peeling India out of the Russian sphere may be the greatest strategic feat of the last decade.
This is a brilliant move. We need to cultivate a close relationship with India. As Mike M said, we have much in common values and interests.
I’m trying to wrap my mind around where they’ll get their training both to fly the F/A-18 and to CQ.
As Don Corleone said… “keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.” Now, even though India is not in the strict sense an enemy, they do reside nearly at the gate, and certainly influence our transit to said gate, whilst we do our best to ensure the flow of a vast quantity of oil flowing from the cauldron that is the Gulf. I say, let ‘em have her, she’s no super-carrier. Besides, it’d be fun to be on plane guard for a day behind that action. I just hope they have in the contract replacement wording in our favor, when they start bouncing off the ramp, and into the prop wash. Just hope the guys in the engine shop have the intestinal fortitude to wave goodbye as they drop in… err – fall in.
Well, we gave them an LPD a while back (I think the Trenton) and it just had an explosion on board that killed like 5 guys. They may not be in the greatest hurry to own another ex-US steam powered ship, even if they really like the Rhino.
India wants to have friendly relations with all countries. India and America are natural allies being great democratic countries.
Purchasing military hardware from America will further strengthen the relationship.
Will it have slurpee machines?
Hey, anything that keeps the Russians out of the game… shouldn’t screw with us on the Security Council A** hats…
Some of you may know ships, but clearly some of you don’t have the best hold on strategic thinking. India is an enemy/potential enemy? Really, what have you guys been sniffing?
It’d be awesome to see the Kitty keep on working…particularly with another Democracy. You want to keep China from becoming a super power that uses force to have it’s way, then you’d best build alliances to contain it.
We have done this before with some success… note that the USSR is no longer a power player despite Putins aspirations,
I’ll believe all the talk of India being a strategic partner and an allied democracy when someone can give me a rational explantion as to why they need such a big, blue water navy. And why would Indian Navy need amphibs? To my way of thinking, the only purpose of an amphib is to put your soldiers ashore on a hostile beach.
Skippy, for once, you and I agree 100%. I say let them buy and deploy with all the Soviet junk they can afford.
Hmm, methinks some of you may have forgotten India’s past capabilities vis-a-vis CV fixed wing ops…including combat ops.
-SJS
It will be interesting if we see this pops up during the Gates visit.
I also think the news this week that Sevmash shipyard screwed the Norwegian’s on 12 big tankers, which was Russias largest commercial shipbuilding export project, is a bad sign for India and the Gorshkov.
A shipyard with issues combined with delays, cost overruns, rumors of alternatives, and of coarse the largest military purchase (the fighter deal) in decades all combines for interesting conversations.
I still think that weeklystandard guy ripped the story right off the blog.
Got a question Cap’t. You are pulling the pin soon and have all that 18 experience, are you a paddles too? Might be a need for some civilian contractor with your bonafides.
India as a potential adversary? Yeah, okay, but so is Canada. Come on. . .
As far as where they will learn to fly them, my bet is on Meridian. India already sends pilots to train at Whiting and Corpus, and Spain sends a large fraction of their jet drivers here to train, so I could see India following suit.
George, if you are looking for a “recovering” LSO (No “Ex” LSOs, only “Recovering”) let me know. I have lots of contacts. Always looking to help get a brother a job…
Nose
India wants a blue water navy for the same reason we have one – they’re a trading nation with a big coastline. Geographically, they resemble an island – their land frontiers are mostly protected by hostile terrain, but they have two long coastlines. They also occupy a very central position in the world today, with the Middle East and its oil on one side and Southeast Asia with its wide range of natural resources on the other. India accesses vital resources and markets via the sea; guaranteeing that access means seapower.
There are a number of reasons for India to have amphibious capability. Indian territory includes two large archipelagos – the Lakshadweep Islands to the southwest, and the Andaman and Nicober islands far to the east of the Indian mainland. There are hundreds of islands, but few are permanently inhabited. The Andaman and Nicobar islands were devastated in the 2004 tsumani.
“Plus I don’t understand how it helps to help a potential enemy improve their arsenal.”
Maintaining the military/industrial base to manfacture state of the art things…like fighter aircraft is enormously expensive.
The combined economic might of the Euros barely keeps one European Fighter in production. The US can barely afford to keep two in production.(Watch the F-22 die a slow death when the F-35’s start being delivered)
Our less than good friend Putin has one of the worlds largest military manufacturing capacities…he either needs to export or go bankrupt.
Denying him an order of 200 is pretty much forcing him to close a production line.
Flatlander, you can accomplish the same with a RoRo or a SeaBee. Amphibs are for beach assaults. Period. Dot. End of Sentence.
1390, I didn’t say that India would be an adversary to the US, at least not directly. But a large, powerful force projection navy with amphib capibility CAN threaten the resources of Indonesia and Malaya…not to mention, all that empty land in Australia.
I suppose that the Indians never know when they might need to assault their own beaches. Or those of their neighbors to the east, west or south. The flexibility is nice to have I suppose when you live in that kind of neighborhood.
And for crying out loud, do you really want to be the world’s only superpower? Doesn’t anybody here believe in competition? Granted, an arms race is not what anyone wants to see… much. Still, it’s not as if India is a theocracy, or an autocracy. And it’s not as if they’re trying to shut down McDonald’s for selling beefburgers. I grant you there are Hindu loonies acting very much like small scale jihadis, but this is not the policy of the Indians as a whole.
Sell them the equipment, but not the technical knowhow. Let the OEMs (Lockheed, for all I know) perform maintenance on them. Keep your technicians American. That way, if you get into a shooting war, (or they do), you can simply withdraw support and watch these very expensive toys break…