I didn’t see it, but I’ve seen enough of Barack Obama at the podium and dais to know that his oration matched the words. And the words he has to say – on race, at least – are the most compelling and honest things any politician has put forth on this topic in the last century, perhaps in our history. As rhetoric, it is very nearly flawless. But it is much more than that.
I don’t believe in many of the political prescriptions he draws in the peroration. I do not stiffen to the clanging, perennial alarums over a health care “crisis” in a system that has operated more or less successfully in the same manner ever since World War II. Nor do I think that it is the role of government bureaucrats to tell businessmen how to make money: Our economy flourishes in a competitive marketplace through innovation, adaptation, and the free movement of labor and capital. We create great value and ever greater efficiencies, freeing up resources for redeployment into new areas of innovation, refreshing the virtuous cycle. We create value through that competition, not by the preferences and favors of the political class. I don’t agree with him about the war in Iraq. Even conceding purely arguendo that it ought not to have been authorized or waged, I cannot believe that bringing the soldiers home precipitously is the right thing to do: There is no “undo” button in national strategy and consequences will follow failure.
But on race – somewhat perversely for a candidate who did not run on race – he is note perfect. This is why Obama’s candidacy has raised spirits and hopes – probably beyond the capacity of one man to to answer. This is why he should be the Democratic Party’s candidate, even if he doesn’t win the election.
There is a cohort of loopy liberals who want to be absolved of their self-imposed burden of race guilt, but let us not dwell too much on them. There are also those on every side of the political argument who acknowledge that the issue of race in our country is our last national frontier, our last mountain to climb, our last stain to erase if we are to become the country of our ideals. The country that we tell ourselves we are. The country that we tell our children that we are.
We – white people – watch “The Wire“, agreeing earnestly with ourselves that it is “the best thing on television.” The show takes us to places – right here in America – that we ourselves dare not go, allows us to mutely witness things we are aware of but which we are not allowed to talk about. Shows us lives we can never see.
We watch in morbid fascination as proxies in the form of working class police of all colors stand in for us in the TV show, knowing that their real life counterparts stand between us and the poverty, fear and desperation of an inner city culture so thoroughgoingly toxic that our political class has all but given up even trying to untangle its pathologies. “We” throw “them” alms, write them off, incarcerate them, blame the victims. Offer them band-aids, condoms, needle exchanges. Shake our heads – isn’t it a shame? In this our Land of Opportunity.
And then when one of the predators forged in the crucible of that culture spills out beyond his limits to kill the pretty young blonde girl who had so much to live for – kills her execution style for the contents of a college student’s debit card, for God’s sake – we say to ourselves in outrage, “What a tragedy!” and ask ourselves, “How could this happen?”
The monster wasn’t made on campus, and he didn’t learn his lethal trade at Chapel Hill. He learned it on his own neighbors in neighboring Durham, or in Baltimore, or in Detroit, or in our Nation’s Capital – places so lethal that their young black citizens were statisically safer in Baghdad wearing body armor in 2006 than they were back home.
The monster learned his contempt for human life on victims that were also American citizens. He learned at the knee of those who’ve ruined lives that were every bit as important to their owners as that student body president’s life was to her. People who would never get the chance to go to UNC, but who had dreams of their own that were just as precious to them as Eve Carson’s was to her. As it was to us.
Where was our outrage then?
This was not a speech that Hillary Clinton could have made. It’s not a speech that John McCain could make. Only Barack Obama could make this speech, and only then when goaded beyond endurance by race baiting preachers and retired congresswomen. Obama will not be able to answer the questions his speech raised. That will take more time and honesty than we have heretofore dedicated to the task.
Perhaps now we can get started.
David Curp,
Yea we are different-in that we are products of our own experience. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I would submit that even if Obama had made 10 speeches-your mind about him is already made up and unchangeable. That is fine-but those who don’t hold that viewpoint are just as worthy to voice their opinion. I don’t see this as about honor or dishonor-its about politics. Welcome to the jungle.
I want the Democrats to nominate someone who can get elected. I’m not sure they will do that this time around-or ever in the future for that matter. I disagree with B2′s contention that it is a foregone conlusion he will be the nominee. I think the convention will be bitter and ugly and do more damage than McCain will in the general campaign.
Which to me is in the long term sad-because the country will once again be able to shelve a meaningful discussion of the issues that our out there: war without end in Iraq, the economy and how to improve it, health care (yes health care!), and more importantly how to bring the country together rather than divide it. If the tenor of this discussion is any indicator the country will become more partisan-not less so.
Excellent exchange by all!
Obamas words were eloquent, even beautiful. They were also the product of a capable campaign organization. Sincerity? Judgment? Do we still have a right to demand these? Good words, though…
Obama is getting a dose of exactly what he deserves and, by the way, what every other politician faces to some degree or another: A close examination on a very telling element of his/her character. Obama invoked his religion as a qualifier– now he has to explain it because he happens to choose to be ministered by a fanatic who scares people with his words of hate. Note: Mrs. Obamas remarks regarding her rather unsuccessful search for ‘pride’ in her country does not help Mr. Obama here.
Obamas words have been general and inspirational, and continue to be so. It bears repeating that Mr. Obama did not choose Race as the subject of his speech. It was chosen for him. His words are…damage control.
In a Naval forum, it begs the question: Does the CO get credit for an excellent damage control evolution as a result of an avoidable event?
Do the rest of you sense that what we may be seeing is the wheels coming off the PC double standard of acceptable behavior?
Barack’s character will not bear up to close examination. He has gotten a free pass for too long. In his case it has been “hands off” because he is black.
Funny how blacks are excused from personal responsibilty by liberals or do-gooders because of their race; ask Powell or Cosby how they think about that particular thought process.
Obama is long on rhetoric, short on substance. I cannot believe how many people take this shyster seriously. He should be selling snake oil; oh, wait, he is.
Pundits comparing Obama to Lincoln; please…
Lex–You’re driftin’ south, sailor! Suck it up and get back on course!
Usually I just read Lex’s blog entries & the comments and depart, wowed by the knowledge and experiences described. Tonight, I’ve read through the comments up to this point, and need to say that it seems that several topics are being conflated: politics, black churches, racism, and so on. Each is well-deserving in its own right of adequate and focused time, attention and discussion.
However, it seems to me that the question that faces each of us is, would THIS CANDIDATE make a good and worthy U.S. Pesident and Commander in Chief?
We all know that the U.S. has suffered some (heh, many!) less than wonderful presidents over the last 200+ years. However, it would be wrong of us if we didn’t try to elect the best candidate among the available choices.
Up until recently, neither Rev. Wright nor Senator Obama could have known that either of them would hold their respective current positions in the national spotlight. Which situation, after reading the transcript of Senator Obama’s speech, reminded me of a letter to the editor of the Wall Street Journal that I read many years ago. I’ve forgotten the topic, but I’ve never forgotten one sentence of that letter: “Your character and your virtue are judged by how you behave when you think no one is looking. Peekaboo.”
‘Seems to me that those 20 years or so that Mr. Obama sat with his wife and kiddies in that church, listening to Rev. Wright so eloquently and viciously villify and damn this country, its government, and its honor, is Candidate Obama’s “peekaboo” moment.
There is no way that I could ever vote for this person – his 20-year history of attendance at such a hate-filled, rancorous “church” tells me that he himself is without honor, without honesty, without integrity. I do not want this country to face the dangers that surely lie ahead with this man as our President.
You folks are, I think, mostly serving or former military of one flavor or another. How would you feel about this man as your Commander in Chief when he has DEMONSTRATED such a lack of courage, honor, and judgment?
Lex,
A minister of the Gospel has one obligation and duty, and that is to “preach The (definite article) Gospel in season and out of season”.
What is being preached by Mr. Wright is anathema, and has nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Lex, you say “All of us have sinned.” Correct.
And the only method by which we are “commanded” to be saved is by Jesus Christ”. No more and never less. Wright was not offering the forgiveness found in Christ, he was preaching hate. The bible has a label for that: false prophet.
If The Gospel was being preached in Obama’s church, he would have never needed to make “That Speech”.
Sorry, I read that thing ‘musta been 10 times, looking for errors.
Second para. = President. Two glasses of wine = idiot typist.
Poor Barack. Handsome young black politician with a smooth tongue from Chicago, presidential aspirant with limited experience, a wife whose political depths are best left unplumbed and a pastor who should be muzzled. And the guy just may save the nation from going “apartheid” while simultaneously teaching the mullahs to sing kumbaya. On top of all that he battles the Dragon(-lady) ala St George. Is this a GREAT country or what? (-*
Lex, your comments in #50 are outstanding. I agree with each of your thoughts!
You are addressing the injustices and rifts in our culture, existent even today in many parts of our society. I am one who worked to overcome some of these injustices.
You are currently in a personal quest of what to do when you retire from the Navy. Just after I left the Navy, I found a calling working for the Boy Scouts of America. After a few years experience in Pensacola, I was recruited to move to Birmingham, AL to integrate the Boy Scout Council… in 1972. That’s right, to integrate the Boy Scouts! They had separate weeks for summer camp, one black district covering the entire council vs. individual districts by area for the white, and many leaders who wouldn’t consider sitting down for coffee or a meal with one another.
I’ve recruited Cub Scouts in both black and white schools, set-up new Troops in black and white churches and Explorer Posts in both black and white businesses. There was a GULF between them, in quality and character. Hey, in 1972 my Birmingham doctor’s office had two separate waiting rooms; yes, you guessed it!
I agree with you that we need to work to correct the inequalities, the result of generations of prejudice, precedence, fear and intolerance. However, I believe we’re talking about two different questions here; the first being our need for continued work toward societal improvement and the second about who many of us choose to support in the current Presidential race.
When it comes to the candidates for President, I feel as strongly about this question as I do the first. I agree with “ColoComment” and so many others on this thread who just cannot support Mr. Obama for the highest office in the land, not to mention the Commander in Chief.
Many of us are torn between the two issues and there are many excellent comments here about both, the question of improving the racial climate in America and who we should elect. It’s difficult to separate the two issues, but I think that separating them helps with the answers. In any case, it certainly helps me understand what’s being said here.
It helps me with my decision to support John McCain, while accepting there is much work yet to be done toward making each man and woman equal in America.
One more question related to racism in the U.S.: if Black churches are, even now, in this Civil Rights Act + 40 or so years era, preaching vitriol and hatred against whites a la Rev. Wright, then how will we EVER arrive at a race neutral society, no matter how hard the dominant [white] society works toward that end? We already have existing law, which prohibits an employer, landlord, et al., to discriminate on the basis of religion, race, sex, etc., and there is a wealth of case law to back it up. What good does that gain when Rev. Wright preaches lies and calumnies about the government to his congregation?
Where is the obligation on the other side to meet that law half-way, with a concerted effort to obtain an education, follow the law, be gainfully employed, be a parent to a family, and so on? Also, where is the obligation on the other side to become an American rather than an African-American?
Without an effort from those who seek equality, we find that we cannot simply buy it for them. After all the national resources that have gone to the Great Society programs for more than FORTY years, we still have Rev. Wright, and his acolyte, Senator Obama, claiming that they are owed MORE. To what end, I ask? And exactly how much more do they need? What is the price of their equality? How much do they need before they will cease to preach such lies and calumnies?
Why cannot Blacks see as their models the Colin Powells, the Clarence Thomases, the, yes, the Barack Obamas, the Condi Rices, the Thomas Sowells, the Shelby Steeles, the Vernon Jordans, and all the other Blacks who have gained great achievements in diverse fields through hard work, determination, talent and grit? Of course, not all will gain such positions, but then, most white folks don’t, either.
I guess, at bottom, I’m wondering how we will know when racism has been extinguished, if those who claim oppression are so loath to let it go?
# 50 lex – while we often spar on most issues, I was quite taken by your comments on this highly charged and emotional issue.
You seem to have an uncommon grasp and understanding that cuts straight down to the painful bone. I can only assume you have gained such unique insight through some personal experiences in your history. So I won’t pile on mine, especially since you have expressed your position so eloquently.
I do thank you for you insight and courage.
Way to go Lex, your comment #50 elevates this thread to a higher level. There is no conundrum, no equivocation in your statements. I cannot even slip in a sly critic of your English:
May I go in a different direction, and address Bad Bob, and others.
Your knowledge of what Pastor Wright said was carefully crafted, and put together by professionals. These gentle souls used to be known as character assassins, but today are known as Swift Boaters.
If I asked you for a reference, you could not give me a link to a full sermon by the good pastor. You could not give me the seize of his congregation, or a list of community projects it sponsors. The best you could do is a You Tube link. And guess what, that reference would have no substantiation, no way to find out who put it together…
Right, just some an anonymous homemade video, some high school kid, who as we know, never adds his name to his proud graffiti… Do you really think it was a patriot that put this inflammatory stuff together? And, what is our soft spoken patriot, son of four star war hero, to do?
The GOP stay out of it? Har, har, wink, wink!!! Take another look at your precious videos, do you really think that their slick presentation speaks of an amateur? Not to worry, the above quotes come from Politico’s article titled “GOP sees Rev Wright as pathway to victory”, and by now we all know playbook. Just ask John McCain about his adopted daughter, and the whisper campaign of how he fathered a black child. That my dear friends what 8 years ago, and guess what voices are deriding Obama’s speech today?
Well-a-day, I have fliterman, OP and Skippy-san on side for a change. I’d better go and take my temperature
Or buy a powerball ticket!
OP… Here is the web address of the Trinity United Church of Christ:
http://www.trinityunitedchurchofchrist.org/
The site was currently “under construction” when I looked at it. You’ll note that they hardly abstain from naming Barack Obama or the 2008 election. They are currently under investigation regarding their tax exempt status. The IRS also investigated Robert Reed and his “Religious Right”. Just saying.
BTW, I believe they have 8,000 members.
I still believe we’re talking about two different issues here: black-white & white-black worlds and, simply, who to support for President this year.
As I said before, Lex, I think your statement in #50 is both eloquent and accurate.
OP, you assert “These gentle souls used to be known as character assassins, but today are known as Swift Boaters.”
You are wrong on that point, sir. The Swift Boat Vets who served with JFK told what they experianced while serving with him. Stating the truth is NOT character assassination.
The Swift Boaters were just as mean spirited as any other 427. The term deserves the scorn it recieves-they are just as guilty of political assasinationas any one else.
Does this sound familar? From Ross Douthat:
“Andrew argues that the dismissive reactions to Obama’s speech from the right are “palpably fueled by fear and racism.” That’s unfair and unfounded: As I suggested yesterday in detailing my own qualms about the speech, they’re palpably fueled by the fact that Obama is a liberal. The conservative idea of a candidate who’s “transformational” on race is someone who sounds like Bill Cosby and works with Ward Connerly, and that just isn’t what Obama’s doing; hence the Right’s disappointment, which in many cases is curdling into dismissiveness and outright dislike.”
Well said.
re: The Wire. My silence on what happens in the fifth and final season can be leased
An old high school chum was killed in Baltimore some years back.
It is a show much more real than many realize…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/nyregion/09camden.html?ex=1360299600&en=de9f9faaa22b877c&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
But it frames the problems through the flawed lens of the standard liberal agenda:
Its all the fault of “Big” outside forces. The characters have no choice but to play their part.
I don’t buy that argument. Where is the sense of personal responsibility? The sense of community?
I will argue The Wire is an homage to what this guy tried to do…
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3880630
Power-ball ticket was funny.
Interesting how Barack Hussein Obama has turned into a Rosarch Test.
VDH had a good article about The Speech:
The Tragedy of Obama’s Speech [Victor Davis Hanson]
Victor Davis Hanson 19Mar08
“The tragedy of Obama’s speech and the mindless endorsement of it was the rejection of any constant moral standard—an absolute sense of wrong and right that transcends situational ethics, context, and individual particulars. And once one jettisons such absolutes, they won’t be there when one wishes to seek refuge in them in a future hour of need.
When he failed to “disown” Rev. Wright, and then brought in parallels of things purportedly as bad, or offered excuses that Wright had done good things to balance the bad, or that there were certain mitigating circumstances that explain his hatred, then the universal wrong of Wright’s racism and lying disappears and with it any ethical standard by which we have moral authority to condemn such vitriol.
That this self-serving relativism was used to address a self-induced political disaster is especially unfortunate for a self-appointed moralist. I think the liberal blanket endorsement of the Obama speech will later come back to haunt its enthusiasts, once they see the creepy freak show that emerges from the woodwork, immune in public discourse now from absolute standards of rebuke.
In that regard, the grandmother metaphor, the radio talk show simile, the evocation of Ferraro, the context of the black church, etc. were meaningless without any unequivocal rejection of Rev. Wright and what he stands for.
This was a transformational speech—but in ways its endorsers can hardly believe but will surely regret. The voters of Pennsylvania will be the first indication of Obama’s folly, followed by the moral paralysis that meets the next outbreak of racism and hatred in the public forum.”
Ron
OP,
re- “Your knowledge of what Pastor Wright said was carefully crafted”
Dead wrong. That video was made by Rev. Wright’s church and was sold in the Church’s own store!
re- SwiftBoatVets,
Better men than you OP. Collection of Vietnam vets who came together spontaneously, had been traitorously betrayed by JFnKerry at Winter Soldiers I, and weren’t gonna take it any more! They were buttressed by ex-Vietnam POW vets who are world class heroes. To compare this with the vile Soros funded Moveon.org 427 is beyond a joke. The SwiftBoatVets are used metaphorically because they were extremely effective in 2004..Why?Because they had/have the truth behind ‘em. As far as being characterized by Skippy as being mean-spirited, ain’t that funny coming from a world class misogynist (Ad Hominem? Check his site- revealing to even the most dull…).
Look. I’ve gone up above and reviewed all. It comes down to this. Some, including Lex, view Obama’s speech as being breakthrough on racial dialogue on some plane, as does the MSM BTW(important), VS.. those of us who see it as a required “political C.Y.A.”, needed to “stop the bleeding”, overt “political speech”. Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between. It was clever lawyers work though, anyone must admit…..
BTW, to set the facts straight as I read them, Obama wrote the speech entirely by himself (unusual). With the exception of a few key aides his staff didn’t see it until shortly before he delivered the speech via tele-promter (not a good choice for him, he didn’t look..well, 100%, as compared to when he basks in the word Change delivered to a racous crowd)…Somebody up above wrote that it was a staff collective piece of work. But then all here have both read and viewed the speech, right?
re- “..hence the Right’s disappointment, which in many cases is curdling into dismissiveness and outright dislike”
Like I’ve outlined above my disappointment was in Obama himself- FIRST, I truly thought he was a breathrough even though I don’t agree with him on much except Race!
Have I “curdled”? LOL. I don’t know (T-I-C). Every thought I could muster up on this issue is above…. Perhaps it all comes down to simple partisanship. For that, I make -0- apologies.
Lastly, for my friend Lex. What you have said above is both true and powerful because it’s from the heart, however I beg to differ on the speech’s impact and importance. While what you have said needs to be said, IMO, Obama’s speech is not a very good catalyst to begin the discussion with. As someone said above- “Right speech, wrong time”. Save your ammo.
b2
None of us will heal until we learn to understand why the “Other” feels how he does, how authentically derived are his perceptions even if they vary from our own, until we acknowledge his errors and yet forgive him as willingly as we forgive ourselves for our own.
Amen to that Lex. I hope our current administration feels the same way about terrorists. There certainly needs to be more understanding and forgiving going on in the current administration. That’s precisely why I’m voting for Obama if he wins the nomination.
Gee, Jeff – I’m not sure if you’re being ironic, but I don’t extend my personal umbrella of responsibility for my brother quite that far.
Think globally, act locally, etc.
“None of us will heal until we learn to understand why the “Other” feels how he does, how authentically derived are his perceptions even if they vary from our own, until we acknowledge his errors and yet forgive him as willingly as we forgive ourselves for our own.
Look at our conversation here today: Would we have even talked about this, if not for “that speech”?”"
I read this and mentally rewound time back 150 years or so, and substituted Irish for Black. Only in my own family’s immigration context, and the harsh bleakness of that time, did I begin to understand. It wasn’t slavery, but it was a degradation so grinding and endless and complete that it lead to the same outward rage and inner loathing. What healed it? Time mostly, but never completely. The Irish never got the vengeance they sought against their enemies, both real and imagined. Begrudgement is an Irish vice, a curse of bitterness against past wrongs that only poisons the present. Begrudgement is the Irish endorphin cocaine, that can be summoned in an instant or nursed into a slow simmering hate so complete and so engrossing you never have to leave it. To let go of all that, and renounce its false power, is a personal experience of emancipation. And a daily choice.
For those of us who are not Black, read Peter Behren’s novel of the Irish Diaspora, THE LAW OF DREAMS. It will be an eye opener. I have never seen the individual mental state of mass suffering chronicled so clearly. Those of us who are Black who read it will likely nod in recognition. I don’t know what its like to be Black, or of any other culture. I only use the Irish example because that’s my molecular memory.
I’m not voting for Obama because I don’t think he’s qualified to be POTUS. I do think his speech, perhaps unintentionally, was still a public service. Whether he learns from this and renounces hate is his choice. He’s still a young man. Ultimately we all choose, or don’t choose, to emancipate ourselves.
I found the 19 March “Best of the Web” by James Taranto in the WSJ to be a very interesting look at the friction now being exposed in this society by BHM’s speech.
Lex has a link to Best of the Web on his page.
Good grief, it is10:30AM here in Rochester and I am still feeding caffeine to that third brain cell – it refuses to fire in unison with the two that I finally got going, and Lex is up and at them on the West Coast with a 620: AM post.
Of note is that the author of the video I alluded in my previous post, #63 has been identified. It is worth a read, if only for the persistent illusion to “home made attack video”.
Right, go to it Mr. Habeeb. Just happen to have the clips of Pastor Wright on my coffee table, and then rummaged around in my gym bag and under my smelly socks was an old tape of Malcome X… Hey bud, I found a tape of those two black dudes with the black power salute, think we aught to splice that in?
Point of Interest: As none of the news blogs saw fit to reveal the names of the two black athletes, I threw a find command on Mr. Jonathan Martin’s blog, and there, finally, Truthie spills the beans: Tommie Smith and John Carlos. Their story, the reaction to their actions, can be found with a simple google search…
Full Disclosure: My spotty career on Lex’s blog began when I tried to point out that out there, something strange and not fully defined was occurring. Some people were angry, and they were not going to tolerate even the vaguest sniff of sexism directed to Hillary, or racism directed to Obama. At that point in time, I was supporting mainly Dodd or Biden. My concerns then and now was simple. What ever was going on out there was affecting both the Center Right, and the Center Left.
Strangely enough, it was bubbeling up from below. It was our youth that was getting pissed off – maybe it was Iraq, or the constant drumbeat against gays, or the incredible rapaciousness of the corporate elite – but, it was out there.
I happen to think that one of the sticks that was feeding this fire of “something out there” was the issue of patriotism. Who are these people who dare to stand up and say they love this country more than anybody else? I can tell you.
Go back to Mr. Martin above, and you find this:
You really do not have to go the Ingrham’s, or Coulter’s of this world to find this kind of crap. Consider Peggy Noonan’s gentle questioning of Michelle Obama’s love for this country.
Sorry about that screed Lex, every once in a while you have addressed these issue, and for that I have been grateful. Thus, I bring you two burnt offerings.
This one is of interest for two reasons, it explores Obama’s organization and why it may be succeeding, and (gasp) has a pdf file which explores how these concepts can be applied to the military.
Patrick Ruffini examines the issue of money, and how the web has changed the game…
A thought I had this morning, while pondering where this thread my travel, while I was out and about: I learned, via a difficult lesson, that our “feeling” are our own domain to choose, even anger. I have come to understand I am the one who chooses how to react, and being in a new sales line, once more get large doses of rejection. How to internalize and react? My choice.
I smile when the next customer comes into view, and I am daily rewarded with meeting interesting and engaging people, as well as a few rude ones, rather than assuming I can vent a little anger on the next one for the feelings left from the last one.
Might this approach mark a change in society as well, rather than us all believing our feelings are the most pre-eminent thing to be considered at all times? There is lots of room for discussion, but not premised with I have to feel good at all times in order for things to be right and fair.
I stand by my assertion that the core video of Rev Wright’s anti-American video clips were shot by his own people while he was at the pulpit and is (and still may be) for sale in his own Church store…OP – you are simply mitigating & politicizing the facts to change the subject that predominates above…
Personally, those clips of the Rev “preaching” were all I needed to see and did see, any additional editorial not required by me to show links to New B. Panthers or defiant 1968 US track stars. I remember it all as I personally observed it all…since about 66-68′ when I became aware of other things besides myself as a teen! Let me tell you- I am not a Spring Chicken or an undereducated college freshman… I remember, clearly and without Google, Bobby Seales, Warren Kimbro, Erica Huggins, Angela Davis..I can go on…
I think we can all agree that Barrack Obama IS NOT of the same mold as Rev Wright or those defiant atheletes of the Mexico City Olympics, I remember well without aid of video editorializing. Some who frequent here of my vintage probably do also.
Irrespective of the original unedited video shot in the church or the editorialized piece kluged together on that link…None of it matters except the core theme. What matters is Obama’s ties to those “themes” and that rhetoric vis a vis his 20 year membership in that Church, therefore calling into question HIS judgement, not the judgement of his detractors or political adversaries…
Can I make it any simpler?
b2
I don’t want to kill the comment thread (by any means), break my arm in a mutual admiration society back-slapping contest, nor (knock wood) invite obloquy by pulling the trolls out from their shadows. But I have to say that I don’t know of any other group of people so firm in their convictions on a subject of such emotional intensity who could discuss the issue with such sincerity, and do so with nary a nasty word or harsh sentiment. I’ve received a couple of notes privately from others who’ve echoed that sentiment.
Damn, but I’m proud to associate with y’all.
B2,
Point of order sir. I am NOT a mysoginist. How you could infer that from my blog or my recent post extolling the virtues of Justice Scalia and the VMI decision is beyond me.
I love women!
As for being world class-well, yes , I am.
I’ve not truly delved into the Obama/Wright issue because it makes no difference to me. My decision regarding presidential candidates is not based on race nor does it enter into my own personal equation. I vote for the person that I believe would do a better job and it doesn’t matter if he or she is black, white, or green with purple spots (though I might suggest they see a doc about that). That is how I was raised.
The issue of race in America is a huge issue and one that cannot be overlooked. And I agree that, even 10 years ago, we would not be having this conversation which speaks volumes as to how far this nation has come in terms of race relations. And no, I am not comfortable with what Reverend Wright had to say in the days following 9/11. At the same time, I am not comfortable with some of the things Billy Graham has had to say over the course of his life either. However, neither of those things entered into my decision regarding the 2008 election.
I agree with Lex that it is too soon to wash our hands of the situation that has been left aside in the wake of said racist attitudes and wrong-headed policies and I also agree that we all have sinned, therefore it is our responsibility to work to make things right.
But none of that has or will sway my decision as to who I believe will do a better job as President of the United States.
Skippy…since when did calling a spade a spade amount to character assassination? One of those “mean-spirited, political assassins” you deride is a friend of my family and I’ve never known the man to lie. Care to elaborate on what information your opinion is based?
Homefront,
Because what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The same people who support the swift boaters decry other 427′s. In my opinion they are all cut from the same cloth. They are a bad thing for American politics in the long run-because they allow candidates on both sides-to not get dirty, while others do the dirty work for them.
Plus in the case of the Swift Boat campaign, the “facts” of the ad do not hold up, or at the least, are in dispute.
I realize my opinion will never win any agreement here, so I’ll simply point out that the position John McCain took at the time:
“I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crewmates have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam.”
The real issue though is the process. My own opinion of 2004 was that Kerry let himself be wounded by the attack-he should have responded a lot more vigorously and jammed it right back at them. That is bad on him-but it is the way both campaigns did business. A pox on them all.
Time for me to jump back into this mess, as it was obviously my post #63 that started this fire storm. To quote:
The phrase or word has entered the common Lexicon. Wikipedia describes it as American political jargon that is used (primarily) as a strong pejorative description of some kind of attack that the speaker considers unfair or untrue—for example, an ad hominem attack or a smear campaign. Thus my coupling it with “character assassination. Most on line reference works refer back to the Wiki definition. Background information can be found at FactCheck.org, referenced by Skippy-san or can be dug up through your favorite search engine.
Watching Skippy-san dodge and weave through incoming fire is like sitting through a re-run of the Matrix. Like the hero of that flick, one is certain he will prevail, for his heart is pure, and truth is his weapon. Back to the central issue.
If we accept that there is a Center Right vs Center Left divide, then the issue is how does each group increase its ranks to achieve its long term electoral goals. There are only three ways: capture the middle, seduce (?canabalize?) each others possible wayward members, grow by capturing those who have recently entered the voting pool.
Within the above formulation, the one thing neither group can afford to do is to “turn off” the middle or the young. The middle, because it is today’s “swing” vote, the young, because they are the future…
These views are expressed in my post #63, above. The thesis I was presenting is that “something” is happening out there, or as some are prone to say, “They do not get it!” What is happening is that the populace is tired of character assassination, tired of dirty tricks, and really ticked off at hyper partisanship…
The evening news relates that McCain suspended (or fired) an aid who was virally transmitting one of those great Pastor Wright videos. He understands much more than the nutsos referenced in my posts that Swift boating just ain’t going to work.
As I closed my previous post, confidant that my work was done, I offered up two burnt offerings to Lex. No easy reading there, but the article in the Tech President Blog examines Obama’s Campaign from the perspective of the seminal work titled Power to the Edge written by DoD research workers. Skippy-San I am sure will quaff it right up, he is a vacuum cleaner. Combine that post, and Patrick Ruffini’s post, and a cold one out on the porch on a star light night, and we might just beguine to understand what is going on… The vexing question persists: “Why is Obama succeeding, and on the way to become the Democratic Presidential nominee?”
Addendum, to Bad Bob:
As I wound my way through this post, and you came back directly to some of my statements, I apologize for not responding…
The problem is that we are separate steam engines, huffing and puffing on separate tracks. Your views are provocative, at times prickly, and assuredly they deserve exposition and discussion.
Central to your views is the gut issue of patriotism and love of country. I accept that, admire it, and would love to take a whack at it in the future…
My issue is somewhat different. It centers on the clash between liberalism and conservatism, and are we know on the cusp of a transformative era. If we are on this kind of cusp, the battle may be perceived as between ideologies. That is not the way I and others wish to go… The battle is how we solve the problems facing our nation…
In this thread, Lex (and others) recognized this cusp when they argued that racism cannot be used as a weapon in the intellectual battle. I apologize for not coming back to you, but the need to emphasize that “out there” things were not as they used to be was important.
OP,
Better watch that vacuum cleaner stuff-around this crowd that could be fodder for a whole host of new ways to take my name in vain-just ask Nose.
re- “Central to your views is the gut issue of patriotism and love of country”
That’s not at the crux of my arguments above. That’s what you implied. While I do think the Reverend’s views are “Un-American” and unPatriotic (your word) as a resultant, they are fundamentally incorrect/unfactual at best, seditious at a minimum and treasonous at their worst…Freedom of Speech at it’s worst. From the pulpit of all places.
Calling those statements a “Black Thing” or couching them in the tragic history that was slavery in the United States and it’s aftermath, is simply unacceptable- logically, legally and morally.
Skippy,
You’re contrary-ness and political cynicism couched as open-mindedness is one thing. The massive chip you carry around because you got burned in a divorce and lost 1/2 your retirement is at the heart of all central core software fundamental to your very existence.
I am going to “Snake” mode now folks-please avert your eyes-I do this several times a year to dear Skippy-san! Highly recommend you move to gay marriage state, hook up with the other Misfit from the “Island of Broken Toys”, and and “marry” fellow Hummer aviator CDR Jeff Huber (ret USN). You two deserve each other! The JP water you both drank aboard east coast CV’s must have contained exceptional levels of JP or perhaps some waste radiation….
Find some peace man. (No- not that kind)
b2
BadBob – I think mentioning Huber’s name here is a party foul and I must ask you to drink, and quickly! What an embarrassment to say that that turd was in my community – (I mean Huber – not Skippy. The jury is still out on him.
)
But – you are saying what I have been saying since the day after this story got legs: This IS NOT a race thing.
His speech was lovely, but it had nothing, nothing to do with the situation with his friend/pastor/spiritual advisor.
This is a hate thing and an acceptance thing. The rev spouted hate from a seat based on love, and Obama never once, until it was a political necessity, denounced his spew. Not even in private. Is Obama a man of principles? He may be, but in this case he didn’t act like it.
BTW – what do you guys think has a greater affect on young African Americans today: racial injustice or a lack of (positive) role models in the home?
The siteowner is seriously considering retracting comment #79, above.
As for racial injustice and a lack of role models, from my perspective that’s a false dichotomy, Nose. Trace the chain of causality back to its source.
This was largely an intellectual exercise for me (i.e. what is Obama’s responsibility for holding a vile character like Wright so closely, and what does it reveal about his character?), until yesterday. Now, it feels awfully personal.
“Typical white person,” huh? Nice.
I mean, am I supposed to just “understand” (and thus tolerate) Obama’s racism because people of my race held people of his race as slaves decades before my family and his black father ever set foot on this land? That man could be my president someday?
No. Sorry, but something in me rebels at the thought.
(btw, the above was not a response to Lex’s most recent comment)
Lex, that smells a little Post hoc ergo propter hocish to me. Of course slavery is one of our two original sins, and one for which I am ashamed.
The chain of causality has many links, and slavery/oppression links are certainly a huge part of the chain. But other minority groups (the Chinese spring to mind) have overcome their original oppression and, in general, grasped their share of the American Dream. They emphasize family, hard work, and education, and it seems to work.
But for the sake of argument, I’ll stipulate that the cause of problems is a deep history of oppression (which I agree is partly true). I still think the answer to my question is the latter.
Thanks for letting me voice my opinion, no matter how wrong or shrill I am. I appreciate a forum where educated people (and I) come together and have serious discussions about prickly subjects and (usually) maintain a civil tongue.
Nose
OP
See what I mean? Just minding my own buisness and WHAM. I knew that vacuum cleaner reference was going to go no where good.
B2,
).
The whole “wrestling with a pig” thing comes to mind.
I like women way too much to do what you suggest. Besides, I’m not sure what that all has to do with this particular set of arguments to tell you the truth ( I especially don’t understand where the reference to Huber came from-shall I send you a copy of his book as an Easter present?
I’m evolving-I an always evolving. There’s a lot more to me than just that whole divorce thing. A lot more.
My advice? Drink heavily.
“Oink-Oink” and loving it with “blue paint” all over my yap! Not much of a drinker though Skip because I actually like reality! It’s only that chip bothers me ’bout you is all…
Me, I thought it was all funny! Particularly after I read that “Hummer fellers” (no names) stuff at military.com and followed him home to his “nest”. Where I found you of course- butt sharking-big time!
Now to the rest of this August group (you too Nose!) I bid this whole subject adieu (that’s French!). Pile on as you may- I can bear the weight. And if’n I’ve hurt your feelings please accept my heartfelt apology and trust me- you’ll get over it! Nyuk!
Off to watch UCONN crush USD!
b2
Re: further on race, racism, victimhood, slavery, etc., I highly recommend Thomas Sowell’s “Black Rednecks and White Liberals.” He’s got a great essay in there on the history of slavery & it’ll give you some fresh food for thought.
FbL, I followed your link and listened to the clip from Obama. I might be missing something but I didn’t hear anything really bad in there. Yes, he said “typical white person” but then went on to give it a context that didn’t feel all that much off the mark to me.
If your point is that if anyone had made reference to the “typical [fill in any race] person” in any context,
somemany would have cried foul, you may well be right. But given his context, what he said, I didn’t see anything so bad about it. It seems to me that a lot of pepole cry foul at a lot of things these days and that might well be part of the current problem.I’ve quoted you and linked to you here: http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2008/03/re-that-speech.html