Buckethead John has the tale of a reserve Navy lieutenant who refused orders to go on an individual augment, including the reaction of another junior officer already forward on his own IA.
LT Weiner of WA has taken it upon herself to disgrace every other junior officer that has ever served in the Navy by violating some time-tested rules for JOs. She was ordered to go to Iraq as an IA, but has refused. This is not a conscientious objector issue, but rather appears that her motives are much more self-centered.
That sounds about right.
I’ve heard a lot of griping about IAs in the last few years, and there’s no mistake that some of them are pretty crappy deals. This is the first case I’ve ever heard of an officer refusing orders though, and it’s nothing less than disgraceful.
It’s true that sailors didn’t sign up to do sojer work, but the ground forces are strapped and there are at least a couple of wars on. Every IA that frees a trigger puller to pull triggers rather than ranger up a powerpoint brief gets the whole thing over with quicker. In any case, the machine will get fed and it’s not fair to the next guy not to fill your spot in the line.
Those of us who take on the privilege of service are obligated to obey all legal orders once we accept the government’s dime. Everyone has the freedom of their own conscience of course, but for those wearing uniforms, decisions about which wars ought to be fought, how and by whom are properly left to our civil masters or else everything falls apart.
There’s a world of difference between volunteering for hard service or a bad deal and doing what you’re told to do, just like there’s a reason they’re called “orders” and not “do you wannas”. The oath of office says that we’ll support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, but it doesn’t guarantee we’ll get to do that from the deck of a warship. That’s life in the fleet – sometimes things suck. Best to shut up, ruck up and get it over with. Orders are orders – misery is optional.
“Lt. Weiner’s failure to report … was counter to good order and discipline, negatively affected the command climate and represents a failure to live up to the Navy core values of honor, courage and commitment. Lt. Weiner effectively put her personal desires above the needs of the Navy team and the nation. … Lt. Weiner is most strongly recommended for separation from the Navy.”
What is it we used to say – “Not in my Navy”?
That’s not an unusual attitude for that generation. Granted most of them step up anyway judging by reenlistment rates and the like. However watching my three guys and their peers growing up there was/is a underlying attitude that they won’t do something simply because is doesn’t meet certain individually established parameters. As if:” it isn’t how I want it I am above doing it.” Why do you suppose we have the demand for “migrant guest workers” in this country?
I honestly don’t know much about military justice, but isn’t this the sort of thing we convene a court martial of some flavor for?
Orders may be orders and I am not condoning the disobeying of them-but IA’s themselves are also a disgrace-and a betrayal by big Navy of its officer and enlisted ranks. People have to go where ordered-but they don’t have to go quietly, and the rest of the herd can make damn sure the powers that be know that this program is wrong.
First, its not like the Navy is not busy-there is plenty to keep the Navy busy right now and the detailing of personnel-particular officers is disrupted by this continuing requirement to fill the other services billets. Why is aviation short O-6′s right now? Because a lot of them are hitting the retire/eject button because of potential IA’s and the lack of commands because we gave them all away 4 years ago. At the least it is reasonable to ask why-if this is so necessary-is the Navy down sizing personnel. If anything end strength numbers should held or increased to accomdate this increased requirement.
Second, it would be better if the Army were made larger and part of the reason that the IA problem is as big as it is-is directly related to the admant refusal to rightsize both the Army and Marine Corps from the start. I’d also submit that the conclusion “Every IA that frees a trigger puller to pull triggers rather than ranger up a powerpoint brief gets the whole thing over with quicker. ” is not necessarily the correct. The war will go on and on and on and on without end-it just the composition of where the bodies come from will go back and forth against the Navy.
Make no mistake-LT Weiner deserves the court martial she will get from this and I hope it pursued with vigor. However an equal amount of scorn is deserved by the personages in authority who just keep saying yes to the demands for more and more personnel to do job s that are not theirs to do.
What I am suprised is that LT Weiner chose to bring the house down on herself in this manner. There were a lot of ways she could have dodged this bullet without having to go through the disgrace of a court martial.
Geez. I’m embarrassed, and I’m not even in the Navy!
Heh. Last name is appropriate, no matter whether your pronounce it the English or the German way.
Words fail me.
Yes, the Army should have been enlarged after 11 Sep 01. And yes, the CNO’s failure to organize a proper Naval Brigade robs the Navy of credit the Fleet needs.
But navies have been fighting ashore for millenia. They often didn’t like it, but they fought – and fought well. Hell, my grandfather’s 1942 Bluejacket’s Manual had a whole section on Landing Party duties – marksmanship, weapons maintenance, and basic tactics.
And anyone who balks needs a swift kick – in the head.
From the PI article it looks like maybe we and she did the army a favor by disobeying orders. As I look at the dates she somehow graduated from Stanford in 2001 and was booted off active duty in 2004. How did she pay off her obligated service for that ROTC scholarship? She then worked as a Selected Reservist. I’m not sure without the FITREPS in front of me but I wonder how much of them consisted of “damning with faint praise”? The language that finds its way into FITREPS is marvelously worded puffery which could easily fool some reporter not familiar with the process.
3 years service on a big ship and then out. Looks like a failure to obtain warfare qualification and she was screened by qual board to be one of the first 400-500 JOs booted out for incompetence or poor leadership abilities.
I just love that advice to her, “Know your role, shut your hole!”
Sage , I tell you. Pure sage.
Maybe a few showings of “They Were Expendable”?
Be careful what you wish for, Skippy. I agree that being assigned something outside your field is seldom considered a plumb, but I suspect an element of the IA programs is, “…you can provide some sailors, which you’ll get back, or you can provide the budget for additional soldiers, which you won’t get back.”
Geez! It’s not like they told her to bunk up in enlisted berthing or something …
Seriously, don’t know if the thinking is they’re making an example of her (they are, and good says I) but why give her want she wants which not to go to the sandbox? Why not make a real example of her and assign her to a hellishly boring ROADS program billet in the sandbox? Either that or have her pulling security at a mothballed DEW line site in Greenland.
You’re right Lex. Orders is orders.
“Yes sir! How high? …and 3 bags full.’
I read about her last weekend, She ain’t high on my list for all the “military” reasons brought out above….
She knew what she was taking on when she refused. She was counseled what would happen. The court of public opinion ain’t gonna help her…
Somebody mentioned the word embarrassed above? Yeah that’s it, but what does that mean in a Jerry Springer Bizarro world? Not much.
Malingerer. We’ve always had ‘em. Enough of her…….
Changing subjects, we do have a robust defense of the whole IA business above and the “company line” so to speak, too, and while I don’t agree with all Skippy’s points I do agree with his general tone re the same.
Personally, I think the US Navy are using IAs as a force shaping tool to get smaller (ex-possibly Lex and many others I’ve observed) and that ain’t right…I also remember the abysmal failure of the voluntary blue to green program commenced several years ago..IAs, less ships & aircraft, fewer commands, are now “status quo” and mainstream. Sure, IAs are noble of intent, but also useful to the bean counters from personnel..to think otherwise is naive.
A lot of folks who come here are of my vintage and ex/ret. USN but IMO they don’t really appreciate how many people in the Navy who are gone on IAs or are in the pipeline for that duty. A lot of folks I know have already been or are getting ready to go. While I laud them and appreciate their sacrifice, I know and they know, that IAs aren’t what they volunteered to do when they entered the Navy. That’s the reality.
Has anybody outside noticed what the USN has been doing with this IA program? SECDEF, the President, Congress, the folks at BlackFive? Hardly that I can see. I hope I’m wrong.
b2
Dammit, what does it take to get me recalled? I’ve tried time and again. I’d go in a heart beat. Anything to get out of my present reduced circumstances.
I’d go anytime, anywhere my country asked at this point. Even Diego Garcia. And that’s a tall order to swallow.
The good LT don’t rate any sympathy or respect. And that’s the bigger loss than a Stop Loss.
Subsunk
To revise and extend my remarks:
The concept of IA’s is a part of joint doctrine to be sure-but when that was laid out it was never with the intent to use IA’s the way they are being used in Iraq. IA’s have been around since at least the late 60′s and they have filled HQ’s in various contingencies around the globe. However the service never had to give up as many as 24, 000 people per year. ( 12,000 IA billets approximately X 2 since every IA nomination requires a “standby” to be nominated at the same time). Plus the pipeline number is taken into account.
Plus that number is not the top line figure. Lets take unit deployments that are being done ILO
(In lieu of) and the total number of Navy people who are not supporting Navy missions probably exceeds 30K-which constitutes about 10% of Navy end strength. More when you consider the “protected” numbers. (In training tracks, selected for command, XO, DH, etc; already in Joint tours, at sea or going to sea, medically disqualified…..) and the available pool drops. Especially when you consider the IA burden falls disprotionately on the E-5 – E-7 grades and O-3-O5 officer grades and it falls disprortionately on certain designators/NEC’s. The active and the reserves will both be 40,000 less people by 2009. Then factor in the fact that less than 300 ships are doing the same OPTEMPO that 450 did 15 years ago.
Now couple that with some really boneheaded personnel decisions the reserves and the active duty have made in the last few years ( The reserves in particular gave away billets that it now could be using, and the active duty has never found a good way to manage IA’s-even doing it as a PCS is full of problems as it impacts career timing for officers).
Plus-will the Army return the favor some day? Or the Air Force? In a predominately Naval conflict it will be the Navy doing it with its own manpower. The audience that the PERS-43,42,’s and 41′s are talking to knows that. They are also not blind to when the boards meet-more than a few people who did IA’s get screwed still. Recent flag board has at least a couple of examples that I know of. The hidden messages speak volumes.
I would echo B2′s point-a lot of the people who are going to IA’s would accept any shitty little job embarked on any ship before volunteering for an IA. So what is happening with out people realizing it, is that a whole bunch of people are gaming the system to avoid being part of the pool (back to back sea duty-or volunteering for unaccompanied assignments in other locations, with better creature comforts).
Final point-there is no free lunch here for the Navy. How many P-3′s are in 5th fleet right now? How many are left that are not grounded?
( I think there are about 20+ if my numbers are right). How many more ships will fail INSURV? This represents just one piece of the great train wreck that Vern Clark bequethed to the Navy.
None of which excuses the LT’s actions. Heck , she could have gotten pregnant or said “the phrase that pays” and she would have avoided the IA without the BCD………………….So the commenters are probably right-she really did not think this through.
We are in a war! She is a disgrace as a military officer and should have been court-martialed to set an example.
This is what it’s all about guys. All that Joint Duty preference. What of JPME? Why imagine that the 4 stars and Congress were just pretending that it was important? They foresaw the day when the services would be forced to actually support each other.
Just be thankful that unlike Canada we all don’t have to wear the shitty Army uniforms.
Honestly. None of you saw this coming? I trust you’re all food service officers with cushy academy jobs or something?
In a few years all pilots will be flying variants of the same aircraft cause we’ll only have 2 or 3 types. There won’t be many ships since we can’t afford them. We’ll be interchangeable between services and can get on with fighting the long war in perpetuity. Naval infantry….HooooYa!
Get on with your duties sailors and check out the ECRC website and start your IA training now. The M16 and 9MM are the toughest bits to pass but God help you if they hand you a SAW or M240 since food service officers have a tough time understanding how dangerous they really are. Negligent discharges are in your future.
I’ll go in her stead. I want to contribute to the fight anyway I can.
B2, I’ve got a CAPT out visiting this week. Yesterday he explained to someone why he could do so little with his crew. Apparently the CNO chewed him out for not doing something. “Sir,” he replied, “I’ve got 9 LCDRs. Eight of them are IA. The one left got pinned 34 days ago. He’s my senior guy.” Explains a lot about the quality of the product coming out of that shop, which I otherwise bitch endlessly about.
Cap’n,
I heartily agree in re: the consequences of LT. Wiener’s clear violation of UCMJ and Navy Tradition.
I do not agree with the concept of IA. As Skippy points out, the burden is on the E-5 to E-7 and O-3 to O-5 ranks. Those ranks are also critical to retention. Keep that up and the Chosin will be considered SAT since there won’t be anyone around with the training and leadership to do better.
Send me, I’ll go and keep a Sailor doing the job he is trained to do.
Senior
I am going in June to Afghanistan. Tried to push it up to May but that would have taken a three stars nod. I am an Reserve ISC and the heat is on. Your chances of promotion are slim and none if you do not do an IA tour. The intel side is hurting manpower-wise but I can’t say it’s strictly from IA. My own personal opinion is that the intel need is great but it’s colliding with Navy’s desire to cut headcount. I have noticed more folks are going civilian intel that want to do this full time. Me? I am just happy as hell to contribute…
Maybe she and LCDR (LT Sel perhaps) Dickinson should get together and go bowling or sump’n.
If you take the King’s shilling, you should do the King’s work. If you aren’t willing to deploy, why sign the dotted line? Maybe because in some Navy Reserve units, senior leadership still frowns on their people deploying.
I don’t condone the refusal of the officer to go IA when ordered to do so. I just want to comment on and expand upon Lex’s comment that such duty “frees up trigger pullers.”
My brother was IA’d for all of 2007 into 2008. I didn’t understand the nature of the duty assignment from the outset – and he was not allowed to talk a lot about it, although I did know that he was given a little over 2 months of infantry training in preparation.
However, since he’s been back after a year in Africa, with about a month in both Iraq and Afghanistan thrown in, I’ve gotten to listen to talk between him and friends who are also Navy – and it turns out that some of the duty is not just “freeing up trigger pullers.” It was ‘in harm’s way” duty and my brother and his friends all have friends who’ve been hurt on this type of duty.
My thought on this is that it seems that few people know about the IA thing. It seems to verify what some people are saying about the military being stretched, particularly when sailors with almost 20 years service are IA’d to perform tasks more appropriate to younger infantry types.
FWIW, my husband just completed a year over there as an IA.
The “typical” Marine tour is 7 months.
The military is always ‘stretched’ during a war, largely b/c of structural inefficiencies and institutional stupidity that it sure would be nice if we could eliminate but we can’t.
Next up: let’s eliminate human idiocy from the process.
When some bright person comes up with the recipe for that one we can slap a star on his ass and nominate him for the Joint Chiefs. Pardon me if I don’t hold my breath.