It’s far too easy to curmudgeon oneself over the issue of self-absorbed millenials refusing service on the line. What’s harder is to grok the experience of this professor from a large, southern university, as provided to me in a private email (used with permission):
I couldn’t agree with you more about Lt. Weiner. In September 2006, one of my MBA students who had already done two tours in Iraq with the 101st Airborne and had separated to come to MBA school was recalled to fill one of those billets. He was part way through his first semester, but the Big Green Machine needed experienced infantry captains. It damn near killed him, but he went. It cost him his marriage and two years out of the program, but he did his duty. No whining either….it was a major suckfest, but he did the job.
Just last week, another of my MBA students, also an infantry captain who had taken his turns in Iraq (and separated) was told to report for duty…..exactly 7 days after getting his MBA degree and six weeks before he was supposed to start a rotational program at a big bank around here. His billet is with a New Jersey National Guard brigade going to Iraq in August….80% of that unit have no deployment experience. He is one of the very few experienced infantry captains going with that unit. He has a ton of loans to go to school, but he will report on time to Ft. Jackson. This isn’t how he wanted things to go, but there is no whining. (Both are examples of the IRR system.)
I have a former student who is also a Navy Reserve officer. She is about to depart for Djibouti for 12 months. There have been three stop/start cycles for her in the past year or so, and finally, it seems to be settled. This deployment blows up her career for a while, but there was no question about going. We are going to organize the care packages for her, and for the ‘naval infantry’ with whom she is serving there. I tell you, these ‘kids’ are just amazing!
So, having seen examples where guys who had finished their duty are stepping back up, it is disheartening and maddening to find an active duty officer in a great organization like the U.S. Navy refuse lawful orders. I cannot imagine how those of you who have answered the call over and over must feel about this. (I wonder if there might be a Navy chief somewhere who, commenting on this state of affairs, is inventing an entirely new way to string epithets together…) I guess I am also wondering why separation is the result and not a court martial.
In any event, it is this civilian’s view that one of the great blessings of living in this country is having men and women who step up over and over…
Hooah by God, and heroes abound. Thanks for reminding me, professor.
Amen.
Cap’n, I may not be a Chief, but I can string epithets like nobody’s business. You can tell your correspondant it’s covered.
The man is crazy. This worthless zero took an OTH and is gone from the service. I signed an MPO on an officer more than a year ago who elected CM in lieu of NJP. We’ll get rid of her sure enough but I strongly doubt it will be an OTH and suspect it will just be a general discharge.
Anybody who urges CM vice NJP and admin sep just hasn’t been to courts martial before. Yeah, it’s easier, but it’s a sure thing as opposed to CM where any damn thing will definitely happen or happen on appeal.
Good riddance to bad garbage in the case of Lt. Whiner
As for the type of discharge— no one seems to be able to confirm the exact nature of the discharge of noted anti-war protester turned Senator and self proclaimed hero (and probably self recommended for awards) John F’ing Kerry.
Apparently it is possible for one to appeal to the BCNR (Board for Correction of Naval Records) and end up with an upgraded discharge and the original less desirable version hidden away forever.
Maybe we will even see ex-Lt Whiner seeking a political career….. she is about as arrogant, misguided and stupid as most politicians.
Professor’s right, Cap’n. I’m that Chief. I’m on tour number two, promised CINCHOUSE I would not volunteer after the first, but would go again if asked. They asked.
But I’ve done two in four years. I have guys here that have done three deployments in the last two years, and three, from E-3 to PO1, that are on the second of back-to-back tours without going home. These are all reservists, and they’re losing money even with IDP and tax-free status. They are the heroes in my book.
Were it up to me, that young LT would be “confined until cessation of hostilities” before discharge, but maybe I’m just getting mean in my old age.
Lex, did I just hear you make the ARMY noise??? (Turning to buddy…) You know I think I just hear Lex, purveyor of all things nautical and seagoing master of NAVY Blogging… I think I just heard him make the ARMY noise.
I don’t know what to do… (trails off into gibberish)
Electing a court martial is a big gamble if you are the one refusing NJP and taking the CM. Its the UCMJ equivalent of going “all in”. You better have some strong cards and a good lawyer.
Seems to me that what will happen here would be determined by the type of ADSEP they go after. Short of a pattern of misconduct or commission of a serious offense it will be a general. However if she resigned in lieu of court martial (Which is the choice I would give if I was the convening authority) the type of discharge is an OTH. If she refused to resign under that article, I’d be signing a convening order that afternoon.
Any JAG’s that can correct me?
There are, I think, far more like the MBA students in the email than the Lt. Weiner’s of the world (is that an appropriate last name for this one or what…).
Check out Rachel Lucas and her boyfriend, “Rupert”; a man who was 10 years out from his last Guard deployment, about to take the next step in a thriving career – called back to active duty as an Officer. He’s in re-training right now, due to ship to Iraq shortly for a 12 month sojourn.
As we always say, where do we get people like “Rupert” and the MBA students?
Skippy-san, it’s harder to nail reserves than active duty, for myriad reasons. I saw a Navy reserve CAPT request CM vice flag NJP, hold off action for a year, and eventually be released from his orders unscathed. Given that as far back as 2003 over 4,000 reserves had failed to report as ordered, I’d guess a JAG would be hard-pressed to nail, er, successfully prosecute LT Weiner.
Please, allow me…
(^^%$**^% )Y()*&$% &()* &)^$%*&#@)~?>_ &^$)($<I~! And furthermore, ()*)*$*, ()*&()&*4589< &*&*^.
And hey, have a nice day, “Ma’am”!
According to media reports, ex-Lt. Whiner is a graduate of Stanford’s ROTC program. There are about 30 ROTC students at Stanford, but Stanford doesn’t have an ROTC program, since they kicked ROTC out in 1969. So the ROTC students have to do there military work at UC Berkeley (yes, THAT Berkeley), and they don’t get any credit hours for it. So they must really want it. Either that, or they really want that $200K education funded by the feds. I suggest that as part of the courts-martial we ask Lt. Whiner to pay back the costs of her education. A time payment plan plus interest would be perfectly OK with me.
Been there (called out of the IRR in 2003), done that (deployed after 7 mos. of marriage) and even got the T-Shirt (King Faisal AB, Jordan “Operation Enduring Freedom”).
No huhu… my wife wasn’t happy, but she knew it could happen when we got married.
Transferred from the IRR to the Selected Reserves in 2006 – and am glad I will never have to salute ex-LT Weiner (appropriate name, that).
If we are mark’d to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God’s will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England:
God’s peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man’s company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
Let her go… We wouldn’t have her in our midst…
What bothers me the most about this whole thing is that the Bad Lieutenant will find succor among certain segments of our society. I’d wager that she will even be celebrated.