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	<title>Comments on: Feith on Feith, etc.</title>
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	<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/04/30/feith-on-feith-etc/</link>
	<description>The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy!</description>
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		<title>By: Drew C.</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/04/30/feith-on-feith-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-428397</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 18:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4045#comment-428397</guid>
		<description>Lex,

   Frankly, I&#039;d have you behind the podium running the railroad.  The way I figure it, anyone that&#039;s survived both carrier aviation and staff assignments probably has their collective stuff in a single, inspection ready sock.

   As far as borrowing the book goes: I think I&#039;ll be reading that one in a chair at Borders.  I do so love print media for the ability to get a &quot;free preview&quot; of the entire work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lex,</p>
<p>   Frankly, I&#8217;d have you behind the podium running the railroad.  The way I figure it, anyone that&#8217;s survived both carrier aviation and staff assignments probably has their collective stuff in a single, inspection ready sock.</p>
<p>   As far as borrowing the book goes: I think I&#8217;ll be reading that one in a chair at Borders.  I do so love print media for the ability to get a &#8220;free preview&#8221; of the entire work.</p>
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		<title>By: lex</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/04/30/feith-on-feith-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-428396</link>
		<dc:creator>lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 15:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4045#comment-428396</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll second that motion, so long as there&#039;s room for the authorship of this blog in one of the back row seats.

So, I take it that I won&#039;t be able to borrow Feith&#039;s book from you once you&#039;re done with it?

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll second that motion, so long as there&#8217;s room for the authorship of this blog in one of the back row seats.</p>
<p>So, I take it that I won&#8217;t be able to borrow Feith&#8217;s book from you once you&#8217;re done with it?</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Drew C.</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/04/30/feith-on-feith-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-428394</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 14:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4045#comment-428394</guid>
		<description>Douglas Feith makes me want to punch myself in the face.  Normally, I&#039;d pen some vitriolic and verbose missive about what he is asserting but it just isn&#039;t in me at the moment.

Sometimes discretion really is the better part of valor.  It disgusts me that hindsight and cognitive dissonance can be used as a foundation for governance and policy generation.

The notion that we&#039;re going to be treated to &#039;THE UNVARNISHED TRUTH FROM THE HORSES MOUTH! NO REALLY!  WE WERE KIDDING THE LAST FEW TIMES, BUT THIS TIME IT&#039;S REALLY REALLY REAL&quot; tell-all book is beyond frustrating.  Aside from servicing a need for information warfare between the people that say we&#039;re doing it wrong and those that say we&#039;re doing it right, I&#039;d imagine that I&#039;d get the same thing from this book as I would from listening to Sean Hannity or Ann Coulter for an hour.

So I am to accept that because Mr. Feith says he &quot;took notes&quot; and only put material in quotes when someone actually said it that everyone else is lying?  He is the sole bastion of truth in a world of liars out to further their own careers by writing a book?  Nice.  I was told by a very smart Senior Chief some time ago to regard people who drink their own Kool-Aid with a certain degree of skepticism.

Alternately, anyone remember how the fence was painted in Huck Finn?

The comments made by Power Line on why the Post review is idiocy of the purest form I find pretty hilarious.  I believe that uncorrected galley copies are circulated by the publishers for the express purpose of allowing reviewers to do their jobs and generate early interest in the actual material.

Trying to say that the &quot;two hatchet jobs&quot; were based on &quot;a leaked copy of the not-fully-edited typescript&quot; is silly.  A pre-owned car is a used car, and in this case a &quot;leaked copy&quot; is the publisher providing selected organizations with galleys to get the word out about the book.

So why hand something like this to a media organization with a propensity for savaging all things neo-conservative?  Why not.  The left wing gets their junk in a twist about LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE and the right wing starts calling them a bunch of Commie-Pinko Scumbags who are Unpatriotic for Not Supporting the President in A Time of War.

All of this results in one thing, and one thing only: Mr. Feith gets $1,500 an hour (plus travel) on the lecture circuit, the book gets sold like hotcakes, and we get another piece of material to argue about instead of tackling the thorny issue of: what now?

By that I mean we&#039;re in Iraq and Afghanistan, that decision has been made.  All of this attention on process from the people that were the process makes no sense when the output of what they generated sucks only slightly less than my father&#039;s Ford Pinto (that had Firestone tires and was totaled after he backed into an El Torino.  Please note that the El Torino suffered superficial damage to the bumper and quarterpanel.)

Sticking with that automotive analogy, let me make that more clear.  You go out tomorrow morning and find that your car will not start.  Do you then spend two or three weeks arguing about why if you&#039;d been in charge of the car this would not have happened?  Do you spend two or three weeks arguing about how you, in an amazing display of fantastic mental powers and prognostication, predicted that you knew the car would not start but no one would listen?

No.  You fix the dang car.

Honestly guys.  What&#039;s really more important here?  Proving you&#039;re right or fixing Iraq and Afghanistan?  Because where I&#039;m standing none of you (policy makers, past, present and future,) care about that, you just care about how cool you sound on television.

That inattention will surely result in another major terrorist strike against the United States.

Afterword: I therefore move that the cabinet of the current administration be replaced in it&#039;s entirety by the readership of this blog.  Can someone second this motion, please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Douglas Feith makes me want to punch myself in the face.  Normally, I&#8217;d pen some vitriolic and verbose missive about what he is asserting but it just isn&#8217;t in me at the moment.</p>
<p>Sometimes discretion really is the better part of valor.  It disgusts me that hindsight and cognitive dissonance can be used as a foundation for governance and policy generation.</p>
<p>The notion that we&#8217;re going to be treated to &#8216;THE UNVARNISHED TRUTH FROM THE HORSES MOUTH! NO REALLY!  WE WERE KIDDING THE LAST FEW TIMES, BUT THIS TIME IT&#8217;S REALLY REALLY REAL&#8221; tell-all book is beyond frustrating.  Aside from servicing a need for information warfare between the people that say we&#8217;re doing it wrong and those that say we&#8217;re doing it right, I&#8217;d imagine that I&#8217;d get the same thing from this book as I would from listening to Sean Hannity or Ann Coulter for an hour.</p>
<p>So I am to accept that because Mr. Feith says he &#8220;took notes&#8221; and only put material in quotes when someone actually said it that everyone else is lying?  He is the sole bastion of truth in a world of liars out to further their own careers by writing a book?  Nice.  I was told by a very smart Senior Chief some time ago to regard people who drink their own Kool-Aid with a certain degree of skepticism.</p>
<p>Alternately, anyone remember how the fence was painted in Huck Finn?</p>
<p>The comments made by Power Line on why the Post review is idiocy of the purest form I find pretty hilarious.  I believe that uncorrected galley copies are circulated by the publishers for the express purpose of allowing reviewers to do their jobs and generate early interest in the actual material.</p>
<p>Trying to say that the &#8220;two hatchet jobs&#8221; were based on &#8220;a leaked copy of the not-fully-edited typescript&#8221; is silly.  A pre-owned car is a used car, and in this case a &#8220;leaked copy&#8221; is the publisher providing selected organizations with galleys to get the word out about the book.</p>
<p>So why hand something like this to a media organization with a propensity for savaging all things neo-conservative?  Why not.  The left wing gets their junk in a twist about LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE and the right wing starts calling them a bunch of Commie-Pinko Scumbags who are Unpatriotic for Not Supporting the President in A Time of War.</p>
<p>All of this results in one thing, and one thing only: Mr. Feith gets $1,500 an hour (plus travel) on the lecture circuit, the book gets sold like hotcakes, and we get another piece of material to argue about instead of tackling the thorny issue of: what now?</p>
<p>By that I mean we&#8217;re in Iraq and Afghanistan, that decision has been made.  All of this attention on process from the people that were the process makes no sense when the output of what they generated sucks only slightly less than my father&#8217;s Ford Pinto (that had Firestone tires and was totaled after he backed into an El Torino.  Please note that the El Torino suffered superficial damage to the bumper and quarterpanel.)</p>
<p>Sticking with that automotive analogy, let me make that more clear.  You go out tomorrow morning and find that your car will not start.  Do you then spend two or three weeks arguing about why if you&#8217;d been in charge of the car this would not have happened?  Do you spend two or three weeks arguing about how you, in an amazing display of fantastic mental powers and prognostication, predicted that you knew the car would not start but no one would listen?</p>
<p>No.  You fix the dang car.</p>
<p>Honestly guys.  What&#8217;s really more important here?  Proving you&#8217;re right or fixing Iraq and Afghanistan?  Because where I&#8217;m standing none of you (policy makers, past, present and future,) care about that, you just care about how cool you sound on television.</p>
<p>That inattention will surely result in another major terrorist strike against the United States.</p>
<p>Afterword: I therefore move that the cabinet of the current administration be replaced in it&#8217;s entirety by the readership of this blog.  Can someone second this motion, please?</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy J.</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/04/30/feith-on-feith-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-428395</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 03:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4045#comment-428395</guid>
		<description>I waded through the over 600 pages of &quot;War and Decision.&quot;   It&#039;s a pretty good read for a book about policy. Certainly has lots of documentation. IMO even handed as well. It points out mistakes made and lets the reader judge why.  

Most of the problems arose because of disagreements between DOD on one side and State/CIA on the other. 

State and CIA were against using the Iraqi exiles such as Chalabi and others in an immediate governing council that would have put an Iraqi face on the government as soon as Saddam fell. The State/CIA people called the exiles the &quot;externals&quot; and believed they would be seen as stooges of the U.S. So, what we got instead was the all U.S. all the time provisional government headed by Bremer.  That could have been the biggest error made in Iraq. Or not. Maybe a provisional government headed by Iraqi exiles could have kept the insurgency from gaining so much steam. We&#039;ll never know. 

It is interesting to note, as Feith does,
that many of the Iraqi exiles are now elected members of the present government. Kind of puts the lie to the perceptions of State and CIA that the externals would never be accepted by the &quot;internals.&quot;

I&#039;m satisfied that the policy decisions taken were thoroughly considered and presented to the CiC in as much depth as time would allow. There was certainly a lot of debate from the affected agencies. They decided that taking the war to the enemy was much better than playing defense and &quot;avenging&quot; each act of terrorism.  I happen to agree.

The biggest mistake, which still hasn&#039;t been corrected, was in thinking our military superiority would allow us to fight this war without expanding the Army and Marines. 

Although W said over and over again that the war would last a long time, it seems that very few people actually listened to him and perceived what that meant.  Feith believes that W&#039;s inability to inspire the people with his oratory was another problem. I agree with that as well.

They also discussed trying to get an information campaign to counter the 
stream of pro Islamist information coming from al Jazeera and other Muslim news outlets. The one attempt at putting pro freedom and democracy stories in  Iraqi newspapers was immediately denounced by our MSM. That ended quickly. There has still been no organized effort to counter all the worldwide  pro Islamic propaganda.

They also had big debates about how they would treat any prisoners taken in Afghanistan.  They agreed that terrorists (Al Qaeda) did not meet the definition of POWs under the Geneva Convention because they don&#039;t wear uniforms, don&#039;t represent a sovereign government, and they attack primarily civilian targets. 

Putting them at Gitmo was hotly debated. Rumsfeld did not want the task. He wanted CIA or Justice to be the jailers, but was overruled. They did decide to treat them well, same standards as the Geneva Convention for POWs.  But their legal status was hotly debated.  John Yoo at Justice managed to convince that theIslamists  should be held outside the U.S. and not to extend habeas corpus because they were not  U.S. citizens.  That is still being debated and contested to this day.

For someone who wants to understand how these issues were handled and has the time, it&#039;s a pretty good read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I waded through the over 600 pages of &#8220;War and Decision.&#8221;   It&#8217;s a pretty good read for a book about policy. Certainly has lots of documentation. IMO even handed as well. It points out mistakes made and lets the reader judge why.  </p>
<p>Most of the problems arose because of disagreements between DOD on one side and State/CIA on the other. </p>
<p>State and CIA were against using the Iraqi exiles such as Chalabi and others in an immediate governing council that would have put an Iraqi face on the government as soon as Saddam fell. The State/CIA people called the exiles the &#8220;externals&#8221; and believed they would be seen as stooges of the U.S. So, what we got instead was the all U.S. all the time provisional government headed by Bremer.  That could have been the biggest error made in Iraq. Or not. Maybe a provisional government headed by Iraqi exiles could have kept the insurgency from gaining so much steam. We&#8217;ll never know. </p>
<p>It is interesting to note, as Feith does,<br />
that many of the Iraqi exiles are now elected members of the present government. Kind of puts the lie to the perceptions of State and CIA that the externals would never be accepted by the &#8220;internals.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m satisfied that the policy decisions taken were thoroughly considered and presented to the CiC in as much depth as time would allow. There was certainly a lot of debate from the affected agencies. They decided that taking the war to the enemy was much better than playing defense and &#8220;avenging&#8221; each act of terrorism.  I happen to agree.</p>
<p>The biggest mistake, which still hasn&#8217;t been corrected, was in thinking our military superiority would allow us to fight this war without expanding the Army and Marines. </p>
<p>Although W said over and over again that the war would last a long time, it seems that very few people actually listened to him and perceived what that meant.  Feith believes that W&#8217;s inability to inspire the people with his oratory was another problem. I agree with that as well.</p>
<p>They also discussed trying to get an information campaign to counter the<br />
stream of pro Islamist information coming from al Jazeera and other Muslim news outlets. The one attempt at putting pro freedom and democracy stories in  Iraqi newspapers was immediately denounced by our MSM. That ended quickly. There has still been no organized effort to counter all the worldwide  pro Islamic propaganda.</p>
<p>They also had big debates about how they would treat any prisoners taken in Afghanistan.  They agreed that terrorists (Al Qaeda) did not meet the definition of POWs under the Geneva Convention because they don&#8217;t wear uniforms, don&#8217;t represent a sovereign government, and they attack primarily civilian targets. </p>
<p>Putting them at Gitmo was hotly debated. Rumsfeld did not want the task. He wanted CIA or Justice to be the jailers, but was overruled. They did decide to treat them well, same standards as the Geneva Convention for POWs.  But their legal status was hotly debated.  John Yoo at Justice managed to convince that theIslamists  should be held outside the U.S. and not to extend habeas corpus because they were not  U.S. citizens.  That is still being debated and contested to this day.</p>
<p>For someone who wants to understand how these issues were handled and has the time, it&#8217;s a pretty good read.</p>
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		<title>By: badbob</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/04/30/feith-on-feith-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-428393</link>
		<dc:creator>badbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4045#comment-428393</guid>
		<description>Ahhh Mr. Fife...I mean Mr. Feith.

I haven&#039;t read his book, nor will I, probably.

I read this link last Sunday reviewing Mr. Feith&#039;s book. The 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are telling:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080427/BOOKS/201699044/1010

The first link above is lawyers&#039; talking about another lawyers book from inside the beltway.

The perfect buerocrat, all process, little product. And yes, Mr. Feith is the guy who didn&#039;t miss eating his bag lunch on 9-11 at noon, as described to me from someone who was there. Not a sin of course, but just &quot;his way&quot;.

b2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh Mr. Fife&#8230;I mean Mr. Feith.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read his book, nor will I, probably.</p>
<p>I read this link last Sunday reviewing Mr. Feith&#8217;s book. The 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are telling:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080427/BOOKS/201699044/1010" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080427/BOOKS/201699044/1010</a></p>
<p>The first link above is lawyers&#8217; talking about another lawyers book from inside the beltway.</p>
<p>The perfect buerocrat, all process, little product. And yes, Mr. Feith is the guy who didn&#8217;t miss eating his bag lunch on 9-11 at noon, as described to me from someone who was there. Not a sin of course, but just &#8220;his way&#8221;.</p>
<p>b2</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/04/30/feith-on-feith-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-428392</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4045#comment-428392</guid>
		<description>As a retired police officer with pretty good insight about how the legal system works, I guess it&#039;s gonna take a few car bombs and homicide bombers within our borders before the majority of people take terrorist threats seriously. And when that starts to happen, it (of course) be President Bush&#039; fault for not protecting us. 

This is a war, and we need to start taking a few POW&#039;s that are operating on our shores like those two. But it ain&#039;t gonna happen until they succeed a few times killing our citizens within our borders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a retired police officer with pretty good insight about how the legal system works, I guess it&#8217;s gonna take a few car bombs and homicide bombers within our borders before the majority of people take terrorist threats seriously. And when that starts to happen, it (of course) be President Bush&#8217; fault for not protecting us. </p>
<p>This is a war, and we need to start taking a few POW&#8217;s that are operating on our shores like those two. But it ain&#8217;t gonna happen until they succeed a few times killing our citizens within our borders.</p>
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