The Navy’s annual fitness reports make 95% of us look like top 5 per centers. You have to really read between the lines to know the straight skinny. By the time you’re a senior lieutenant, words like “demonstrates unlimited potential” mean you’re being damned with faint praise. After a while, you’re not supposed to be demonstrating potential – you’re supposed to be realizing it. A “recommendation for promotion” means that you should never have been selected for your current rank. “Strongly recommended for immediate promotion” means you’re tracking with your peers.
But some times the veil is lifted, like. The scales, they fall from your eyes.
Cuppla years back your humble scribe was the operations officer of the world’s finest aircraft carrier. On the line in the Arabian Gulf. A-waiting for the fighting to start.
I had a young officer who worked for me. Well. Who worked for a guy who worked for me. Very young, very pretty, winning smile. Set my internal RWR gear a-buzzing in every quadrant. Full warble.
“Trouble,” thought I, with a capital “T”. And that rhymes with “P” and that stands for “prison.” Or “penury.” Or any number of negative potential consequences attending to an unduly familiar relationship between someone young and foolish and someone who really ought to have known better, the poor, stupid bassid.
I kept it on the ultra-professional plane.
Which wasn’t, as it turned out, quite enough.
One day about two, maybe three weeks prior to the commencement of actual hostilities her division officer came to me with a revelation: “Herself is in a family way,” he said.
You never want to be the senior man with a secret, so it was straight up the ladders I went for to tell the commanding officer that, unless a COD could be found to put herself ashore? We’d have a bairn born between the guns.
“It’s bad news I’ve got,” said I to hizzoner solemnly. A-knowing of his distaste for anything running contrary to good order and discipline aboard a warship at sea. “Lieutenant Junior Grade Toothsome Trouble is, em… preggers.”
“Is she now,” thundered himself in reply, a cloud darkening his brow, and your narrator bracing himself for stern remonstrations against his leadership, like. For permitting it to happen. This is where we’ll find out what the Old Man thinks of us, we said, and our career it was hanging in the bargain.
“And are you the father?” he concluded.
“Of course not!” was our earnest instant, and that served to put us back on a somewhat more equivalent moral plane.
Not good, of course, to lose one of your officers to an off ship with Ares standing a-tiptoe on the eaves.
But it could have been worse.
Breath in, breath out.
“Pregnancy is not a readiness degrader”.
Or so they say.
Lieutenant Smithers is prolific in her quest for greater morale aboard ship.
Pregnancy is a readiness degrader, for The Job is now up to two people, one of whom has to be supported by the other solely, and God help you if a medical condition like a weakened cervix or uterine cysts result in a failed pregnancy after a bout of difficult physical labor. Things you’re not likely to detect until after-the-fact on sick call.
Sorry folks, I have to take a stand on this after what my family went through. We’re here to defend life, liberty, and the pursuit of all those who threaten it. We’re not about to add risk to a pregnancy just so she can fly or lift ordinance or whatever it is that she does as a job. She has greater responsibilities now, her employer owes her a little consideration. Just as she’s stopped injesting legal adult beverages and is otherwise trying to be more healthy, for the new shipmate she’s responsible for, the Navy is just in reducing duty requirements as soon as possible.
After all, that might just be a new Midshipman in another 19 years or so. Wouldn’t want to damage the little chunk of recombinant DNA early and have it join the Air Force, now would you?
Yeah, I know — gratuitous slap. Couldn’t help myself. You’ll feel better after a round of golf.
– Max
I’m just wondering when there’ll be a baby born aboard a warship for the first time.
Happens pretty often ashore that the, young, inexperienced, mother does not even realize whats’s up (or refuses to acknowledge) till birthday.
That will be a pretty stink I wager.
When the navy reduces her duty requirements who takes them? Does some father have to leave the wife and kids and deploy earlier than expected so the knocked-up “officer” can go home? That’s the way it works in the AF. I’m not real sympathetic to such females. In fact, I think they should have their commitments extended for the time they are obliged to go off flying status for what is a completely avoidable condition.
Military invests six million to train you? You give ‘em the commitment you signed on for (barring extenuating circumstances…which don’t include getting knocked up).
Liz,
6 million?
Is that too high or low?
The first year of pilot training alone takes about 2 million (it was over a million in 1992 so I’m adjusting for inflation), training after that more. By the three year point, at about the time a pilot becomes deployable asset, I’d say six million is fair. That doesn’t include Weapons’ school (Top Gun in the Navy) which is multo expensive…can’t remember the amount now, but it’s about four times the amount spent on basic pilot training if memory serves.
Seems high to me, but I can’t find anything in writing.
Gunnery Sergeant Jones, United States Marine Corps, told me that Uncle Sam would probably waste the 1Mil they were about to spend training me. (Many would argue that he was correct).
Oh, and there are other Weps schools in the Navy, just none that have Tom Cruise as a spokesmodel…
Cheers!
Nose
Life was simpler in the “Old Navy”.
I am mature enough to have only served aboard one mixed gender ship. Only 10 percent of the crew was female, and we lost about 25 percent of them during my 20 month tour. Only one due to pregnancy. The first time a female left at the end of her tour, they baked her a cake! The dirty little secret is that the remainder left in a straightjacket, either literally or at least figuratively. “Hardship” transfers (are there any ships that are not hard?). We also had 3 single mothers (almost 10 percent of our females) who never sailed with the ship for more than 5 straight days. If we planned to stay out longer, we sent them TAD to our squadron and left them behind. Don’t even get me started about the little love triangles we had to deal with (both male-female and female-female). We had a huge problem with “inappropriate activity” in our only female berthing compartment until our male MAC was relieved by a female MA-1. After she moved in, they at least took it off the ship (although finding pillows and blankets in fan rooms was an everyday occurance). You should have seen me the first time I caught my BM-1 carrying a 5 gal paint bucket for his female SR because it was too heavy for her.
Am I a fan of mixed genders at sea?
In the mid 80′s as a member of VA-147, I was the Airframes Work Center LPO. As one of my myriad of responsibilities was to writed Performance Evaluations on members of my shop. I wrote an average Third Class an average eval. All hell broke loose. I followed established guidines to do this.
I never expected more thana 3.6 to 3.8 during my career. For me a 3.8 was sterling, especially ashore. The best I ever got was when I left SeaOpDet Lemoore in 89. It was the only set of 4.0s across the boardI ever got. Iguess when objectivity is used, it will come back to haunt. I went in front of the CPO selection board eight times in my career. In 88, I got close. A friend of mine ws a recorder on the board that year. 36 AMHC’s were selected. I was number 37. The word was number 36 should have been me. He had 2 members of the board that knew him. I didn’t.Oh well, water under the bridge.
I won’t even go into how things were later on, with the “Total Man” concept.
Even after Iretired and read the board results every summer for a few years, I was surprised at times with the results. I saw guys getting their Anchors that I would not let baby-sit my kids.
Just a few random thoughts from an Old Retired Petty Officer.
The job interview has been completed, and the HR representative decides to call one of the listed references.
“Good afternoon Mr. Smith, my name is Ms. Jones of ABC LLC. I’m calling in reference to a Mr. John Doe, who I understand was employed by your firm last year, and has applied for a similiar position with us. May I have a moment of your time?”
Pause.
“Well Ms. Jones, I’m sorry, I don’t have all that much time as I have a very full schedule for today. Yes, Mr. Doe was previously employed by us. You would indeed be lucky to get Mr. Doe to work for you.”
Click.
For Does Not Matter:
I believe, if memory serves me correctly, thata dependent wifegave birth on Saratoga in 1974 when transiting from Norfolk to Mayport afer an extended period at NNSY. I was only 19 at the time. So the mists of time may have an impact.
BTW, does this make me officially “old”?
Wow, puts new meaning to the phrase “Sea Daddy.”
Liz and Nose- Latest figures I’ve gotten from folks I consider reliable sources: cost from API to winging is $2.5M per pilot, on average. More for those jet clowns. A USNA diploma costs the taxpayer $775K, according to this glossy brochure I just received.
Bobble, exactly.
Funny thing is, whenever the press gets aholt of someone’s FitReps, they read them as if they were the gospel.
“My most trusted division officer” is great for an Enswine, but for a LT, not so much.
One other thought- in the RAG, as a student, we had “Professional Development” lectures. One day an Instructor NFO was talking about FitReps to a group of us cones. He threw out what I would later find to be one of those awful cliche’s that haunts you forever, “Remember, flying skills is just one block on the Fitrep.”
The guy sitting next to me, a salty former fleet guy, leaned over and whispered in my ear “Yeah, but no one ever got kicked out for being crappy at their ground job!”
So true. So true.
We had a female Airman in my first squadron that seemed to have an addiction to going to medical. At the time, I was a freshly minted AT3 and running the night shift with an AME2 who effectively let me run amok with occasional corrections for when I was doing it wrong.
One night, we sat down and looked at a calendar, and the Plane Captain (PC) qual tracking board when both of us had the same thought.
“How long has she been here?” I asked.
“I dunno. Like two, maybe two and a half years. Some [POOP] like that,” Ashe replies.
“[COPULATION] [HADES]. Are you [EXCRETING] me?”
“Nope,” he says, digging around in one of the file drawers in his desk. With some care, he produces a thick folder of papers and starts flipping through them. “Drew, dude, start marking dates on that yearly.”
“Okay.”
Some time later, my reaction to what we had produced amounted to “[GOLLY] [DEITY OF YOUR CHOICE] what the [STUFF] is this [COW MANURE].”
270 days. She had spent 270 of the previous 365 days either Sick in Quarters or on Light-Limited Duty. The remainder of the time she was either TAD or on leave.
I’ve got no problem with women in the Navy, none whatsoever. The problem I have is when we’re expected to do a job and someone is using their plumbing as an ejection seat for their responsibilities. You signed a contract, you knew you were committing to something. See it through.
Quite frankly, I think there should be mandatory, supervised, birth control for both men and women during their first enlistment or tour. You want to get pregnant / get someone pregnant after that? Fine. So be it. Prior to that, at least repay the debt that you owe for your training and at least get your feet wet.
Of course, I got brought up with a different work ethic, I guess.
WRT babies born on warships. Oh yeah, we’ve already done that. When I was working at SURFPAC in the late 90′s I recall at least one Unit SITREP that brought one of these cases to the attention of the chain of command. “Mother and baby fine.”
I never served with women at sea although back when I was very young the ship I was on was selected to play host to elements of a Fleet Hospital along with a nurse who was to embark and keep on eye on the gear. We were so looking forward to her arrival. You can imagine the crushing disappointment when “Jeff” joined us in Diego Garcia and announced that he was a the nurse. He did know some great drinking songs though.
Liz, interesting side line about the cost of training pilots, but Capt. Lex was a Carrier Operations Officer when this happened, not on flight duty. Thus the young lady in question would have been ships company if I’m thinking correctly. ‘Course, it still cost some to train her and replace her.
Having said that, I agree that your obligation should be for the amount of years you can work, not the amount of years that pass while you’re on sick leave. Unless injured in the line of duty of course.
Humble1390, I’ve heard as much as $400,000 for a USNA diploma, if they’re now saying $775,000 that’s quite a leap. Inflation rears its ugly head. I’d be interested to see a copy of that brochure you’re talking about, if it is easily available.
Nose,
You never served in Stalag 123. A couple of guys got kicked out for being crappy at their ground job-then again their aviation skills were not so great either.
I agree. If it’s reason enough to get someone taken off the ship (or off active duty) then it should be something controlled from the start. I wonder how many women allow themselves to get pregnant, after they find out it’s not all tea and cakes in the service.
I hate to impugn my own gender, but it happens in civilian life all the time – why wouldn’t it happen in military life?
Skippy, I flew with 123 when they were good! When I was in 127, we used to watch you sad sacks across the hanger do your professional development lectures or whatever they were while we were on the way to Hooters for an AOM or the golf course for some PT! (Seabats rule!)
Of course with Herr M____ at the helm, wouldn’t it be BETTER to be kicked out?
“270 days. She had spent 270 of the previous 365 days either Sick in Quarters or on Light-Limited Duty. The remainder of the time she was either TAD or on leave.”
In the Army that would (or should) have been investigated as malingering.
BTW Idaho, a CV/CVN OPS department is RIFE with aviators. P-3 guys call it a “dissacociated sea tour” (of course for most P-3 guys, it is their ONLY sea tour) the rest of the Navy just called it “Hell.”
I’m sure it was better with Lex as a boss.
Well, the thrust of this post was supposed to be my CO’s lack of fidelity, but apparently it is opened wide to other conceptions. It certainly was pregnant with that potential, now that I’ve come to look at it on a new day.
Ahem.
Back when I was paying closer attention to the issue of pregnant sailors and attrition, it became clear to me although we lost many more females to pregnancy than we did males – we actually study these things – we lost males to all forms of attrition at a higher rate than females.
For what that’s worth.
Idaho Joe and Humble,
A long time ago, graduated from USNA in 61, we had the cost down pat at $53,000. Inserted up a certain orifice a nickle at a time.
we lost males to all forms of attrition at a higher rate than females.
Testosterone…The world’s Most Dangerous Drug.
I know it has cost me countless thousands of dollars. Broken bones. And many hours of in general angst …
I’m thinking if you lost a male to pregnancy it would be time to call Mr. Ripley of Believe it or Not fame.
Interesting that there was more attrition among males than females. I wonder if there is any significance to that. Maybe they already had to fight a little harder to get there? Not to open another wormy can or anything.
Nose, didn’t think about the female being a possible aviator. Guess that would mean her training was really, really expensive instead of just expensive.
Sid, not to mention, all the beer and Jack
Interesting, Lex. I guess it depends on the year. Wasn’t true in 1993. The female attrition rates, especially when pregnancy is taken into account, were quite a bit greater than the male attrition rates then. I’d be surprised if it has gotten better with the vast increase in ops tempo since that time.
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/ns98213.pdf
(see page 32, table 3.3)
Anyway, sorry to take your thread off from where you intended it to be. To answer the question….what do we really think of you? Neptunus Lex rocks! A stellar citizen who doesn’t impregnate women while on duty, on his ship…er, under his command..um, who aren’t his wife.
Lex-
Could be that I’m missing the subtler elements here, but what does this missive have to do with the CO’s fidelity or lack thereof?
On a different note, how does one go about putting up the nifty little 1×1 avatar next to his/her posting?
Oh, I was stretching the whole double entendre past the breaking point on that first para – fidelity as in “faith”. In me.
It’s not funny if you have to explain it. Even if it wasn’t funny to begin with.
Here’s the gravatar link – Enjoy!
@GM Cassel,
Well, I meant a Navy sailor, not a dependent.
That would have been a Tiger cruise I believe ?.
Wasn’t specific enough, my fault.
Does that make you old ? Well for me yes, seeing as I was -11 at the time…
Nose,
RE: “Of course with Herr M____ at the helm, wouldn’t it be BETTER to be kicked out?”
You will get no arguement from me. I have the knife scars on back to prove it!
oooOOOoooh! Now I get it!
Well heck, Lex; you are a fighter pilot after all – I’m just surprised the Skipper didn’t immediately send you down to sick call for a short-arm inspection and mebbe some penicillin or something!
Oh, and was the gravatar link s’posed to take me to Wikipedia and the whole EU demographics thingy??
Nose,
“Seems high to me, but I can’t find anything in writing. ”
You talking to a zoomie there? You forgetting greens fees…?
Oops. How about this?
Back when I was a wee lad, (i.e., before my 24 years in the Navy), I ran across a P-3 guy (not sure if he was a ‘FO serving as X.O., though I believe he was) on his dis-associated tour at the Naval Support Activity in Antigua, West Indies. This was 1971-72 time frame. I merely mention this to say that for some, the disassociated tour wasn’t hell and not necessarily the big Gray Thing that P-3 guys normally received as an assignment.
Getting back to the off-topic, Liz has correctly deduced that if the preggers lady is taken off-ship, and in my opinion should be due to the fact she has a higher duty to attend to and may come back in a year, somebody else must take her place. A ship on the line has no spare crew — everybody has a duty station. While they may not have a specific assignment, they are expected to pitch in and pull their weight wherever needed.
So yes, somebody else took her position. I believe Lex has mentioned the ultimate insult to be found in the fleet, a Fuddy Bucker. Well, at the risk of making a pun, that’s a perfect description. As for the father, he’s equally responsibile but luckily is not strictly required for incubation, sustinence, and care of the newly-minted Midshipman. Let him pull double duty at sea, so a seaman who did consider his obligations to his shipmates and made proper choices won’t be burdened by filling in for something not his fault.
I’ve no problem with women in the military, none even with women on warships at sea except for the obvious hassle of changing designs for separate berthing and showers and such. Heck, they can be on the front lines in the infantry for all I care.
But there are a few differences between the sexes. Ignoring them won’t make them go away.
Women on average have less strength, particularly upper body strength, but there’s a lot of scrawny sailors and we find jobs for them so that’s not a limiting factor.
Women tend to be right-brained rather than left-brained, or maybe it’s the reverse, so they communicate better but don’t seem to find the machine shop a fascinating place to visit. Again, lot of sailors who don’t know how to turn a wrench and we find billets for all of them.
The significant difference is bearing children. If guys could do it we’d have a machine do it for us, with a throaty V8 growl and a case of beer next to a recliner so we could just watch it work. We’re lazy like that.
We can’t, hence some accommodation has to be made by the Navy, and some obligation has to be made from the sailor. Else you’re Bucking your Fuddy.
— Max
FWIW, I had 18 third class-and-below CTR’s working for me back in the late 80′s when I was a watch supervisor for about 9 months at a certain Naval Security Group Activity in the Far East.
When it came to copying Morse at extremely fast speeds, my two females where the best I had – I had occasion more than once to pull one of the guys off a ‘poz’ and put one of my ladies on there. And, I never had to sit with one of them behind a closed door while my DivOff and Div Chief did some backside chewing for a drunken episode off duty – unlike some of the guys, lol…
Lex, in answer to your question and from what I gather, your not too shabby of a guy! Quite the contrary to “Shabbiness” altogether if you want to get technical. I think if my “Superior” asked me a question as direct as your former did I would be “Floored “(to say the least) especially assuming you had given him no inclination to assume that you would ever be so disgraceful. You just don’t seem to come across as one of “those kind of folks” that Max so “fondly” nicknamed (see above).