Comments on: A Step in the Right Direction http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/05/07/a-step-in-the-right-direction/ The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy! Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:19:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: virgil xenophon http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/05/07/a-step-in-the-right-direction/comment-page-1/#comment-428928 virgil xenophon Sun, 11 May 2008 02:33:13 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4093#comment-428928 Blame the ship naming problem on the demise of the BBs , the downsizing of the fleet, and the Congressional desire to secure civilian support for the defense budget by naming everything after cities, politicians or popular historical figures. Hence treating SSN/SSBNs as capital ships and naming them after cities instead of fish--and the fact that not enough cruiser types around anymore to carry the load for even the "lesser" cities. The "old" (pre-WWII) way was a system that had precision and elegance: BBs(States); CVs(famous battles); CAs(major cities) ;CLs(minor cities); Subs(fish) DDs(famous navel heroes); etc., was a logical system. Now only the DDs, hospital ships, mine- sweepers/layers, most repair ships, oilers& ammo ships and some cruisers still hew strictly to the old nomenclature--not enough types of ships to support old system. Particularly odious is practice of naming ships after live politicians. In its desire to secure funding the Navy has --as in so many other areas--thrown tradition out the window--in this case as in so many others much to the detriment of that general sense of pride which is the sum total of oh so many cumulative little things. By way of example, when I was on active duty in the AF we wore our Sq. patches on our rt. breast of our flt suits/jackets just like the Navy still does. Well over 25 yrs ago AF decreed that Sq patch go to rt shoulder and the MAJOR COMMAND (not even the numbered Air Force, let alone the Wing insignia to which the Sq. was attached) patch replace it. Now everyone looks like a HQ "weenie." If anyone doesn't think this shift in em- phasis doesn't have a very subtle, but definite effect on attitudes --even for FNGs who have never been exposed to the "old" system--well, you've never been in a fighter squadron. Or played on or coached an athletic team at any level. I know that for years after the USAF removed the numbered AF patch from the dress blues everyone complained about the "bus-driver" look, and the Army is not too happy with the "Forest Ranger" look either. And while I understand that when the USMC removed the Division patches from their Class A Dress Greens it was to try to make them think as "Marines" rather than to foster rivalries between units in a small Service, combat sure brings the insignia back. When I was with the 366TFW at DaNang, the Marines on the other side of the field sure had their big 1st MARDIV and 1st MAW signs and insignia all over the place. And the "east coast" vs "west coast" rivalry within both the USN & USMC air arms is well recorded. So, it should be obvious that this guy is a big believer in both heated rivalries and heraldry as a means to build on tradition and foster esprit de corps. Napoleon said it best: "With a few strands of ribbon....." Blame the ship naming problem on the demise of the BBs , the downsizing of the fleet, and the Congressional desire to secure civilian support for the defense
budget by naming everything after cities, politicians or popular historical figures. Hence treating SSN/SSBNs as capital ships and naming them after cities instead of fish–and the fact that not enough cruiser types around anymore to carry the load for even the “lesser” cities. The “old” (pre-WWII) way was a system that had precision and elegance: BBs(States); CVs(famous battles); CAs(major cities) ;CLs(minor cities); Subs(fish) DDs(famous navel heroes); etc., was a logical system. Now only the DDs, hospital ships, mine- sweepers/layers, most repair ships, oilers& ammo ships and some cruisers still hew strictly to the old nomenclature–not enough types of ships to support old system.

Particularly odious is practice of naming ships after live politicians. In its desire to secure funding the Navy has –as in so many other areas–thrown tradition out the window–in this case as in so many others much to the detriment of that general sense of pride which is the sum total of oh so many cumulative little things.

By way of example, when I was on active
duty in the AF we wore our Sq. patches on our rt. breast of our flt suits/jackets
just like the Navy still does. Well over 25
yrs ago AF decreed that Sq patch go to rt shoulder and the MAJOR COMMAND
(not even the numbered Air Force, let alone the Wing insignia to which the Sq. was attached) patch replace it. Now everyone looks like a HQ “weenie.” If
anyone doesn’t think this shift in em- phasis doesn’t have a very subtle, but
definite effect on attitudes –even for FNGs who have never been exposed to the “old” system–well, you’ve never been in a fighter squadron. Or played on or coached an athletic team at any level. I know that for years after the USAF removed the numbered AF patch from the dress blues everyone complained about the “bus-driver” look, and the Army is not too happy with the “Forest Ranger” look either. And while I understand that when the USMC removed the Division patches from their
Class A Dress Greens it was to try to make them think as “Marines” rather than to foster rivalries between units in a small Service, combat sure brings the
insignia back. When I was with the 366TFW at DaNang, the Marines on
the other side of the field sure had their big 1st MARDIV and 1st MAW signs and insignia all over the place. And the “east coast” vs “west coast” rivalry within both the USN & USMC air arms is well recorded. So, it should be obvious that this guy is a big believer in both heated rivalries and heraldry as a means to build on tradition and foster esprit de corps.

Napoleon said it best: “With a few strands of ribbon…..”

]]> By: GeoSTI http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/05/07/a-step-in-the-right-direction/comment-page-1/#comment-428926 GeoSTI Fri, 09 May 2008 21:13:38 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4093#comment-428926 I'm sure RAH would argue against naming a ship after him when there are more worthy names. Now, if we named on of those new LCS after him, it might be more fitting. Or a SSBN. I’m sure RAH would argue against naming a ship after him when there are more worthy names.

Now, if we named on of those new LCS after him, it might be more fitting. Or a SSBN.

]]> By: lex http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/05/07/a-step-in-the-right-direction/comment-page-1/#comment-428927 lex Fri, 09 May 2008 20:45:46 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4093#comment-428927 You know, not really? I mean, I like much of Heinlein's work - or at least, I did back when I read science fiction - but a USS <em>Heinlein</em> as contrasted to a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Monsoor" rel="nofollow"><em>Michael Monsoor</em></a> (for example), I'd rather serve on the latter. Still, we've named Navy ships after less worthy luminaries. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_Daniels" rel="nofollow">Josephus Daniels</a> not only made the Navy "dry," he was a notorious racist and we named a ship after him. You know, not really? I mean, I like much of Heinlein’s work – or at least, I did back when I read science fiction – but a USS Heinlein as contrasted to a Michael Monsoor (for example), I’d rather serve on the latter.

Still, we’ve named Navy ships after less worthy luminaries. Josephus Daniels not only made the Navy “dry,” he was a notorious racist and we named a ship after him.

]]> By: David K. M. Klaus http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/05/07/a-step-in-the-right-direction/comment-page-1/#comment-428925 David K. M. Klaus Fri, 09 May 2008 20:25:59 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4093#comment-428925 Do you have any opinion with regard to the civilian campaign to have DDG-1001 named the USS <i>Robert A. Heinlein</i>? Heinlein served on USS <i>Roper</i> (DD-147), as well as USS <i>Lexington</i> (CV-2) prior to being medically retired due to tuberculosis. Do you have any opinion with regard to the civilian campaign to have DDG-1001 named the USS Robert A. Heinlein?

Heinlein served on USS Roper (DD-147), as well as USS Lexington (CV-2) prior to being medically retired due to tuberculosis.

]]> By: SBW http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/05/07/a-step-in-the-right-direction/comment-page-1/#comment-428905 SBW Thu, 08 May 2008 15:16:13 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4093#comment-428905 The "absolutely hellish" Crossfit workout Lex mentioned last week: http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/05/02/busy-day/ 1 mile run/100 pull-ups/200 push-ups/300 squats/1 mile run is named the 'Murph' after the same Lt. Michael Murphy because it was one of his favorites. He was so far beyond normal humans, he preferred to do it while wearing body armor. The “absolutely hellish” Crossfit workout Lex mentioned last week: http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/05/02/busy-day/
1 mile run/100 pull-ups/200 push-ups/300 squats/1 mile run

is named the ‘Murph’ after the same Lt. Michael Murphy because it was one of his favorites. He was so far beyond normal humans, he preferred to do it while wearing body armor.

]]> By: Jim Collins http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/05/07/a-step-in-the-right-direction/comment-page-1/#comment-428924 Jim Collins Thu, 08 May 2008 12:41:24 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4093#comment-428924 I may be wrong, but isn't there a Congressional mandate that there will always be a ship named Enterprise in the US Navy? I may be wrong, but isn’t there a Congressional mandate that there will always be a ship named Enterprise in the US Navy?

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