I’m continually struck by the tendency of so many Democrats to talk – usually, but not always in disparaging terms – about John McCain’s military service, even as they let more potentially fertile fields of discussion lay fallow. The next step in this baffling strategy seems to be to express resentment when the senator from Arizon responds. Virginia Senator Jim Webb has now stepped into the McCain/Massengale Clark fray, saying that McCain has been imputing his own policy views upon the military generally for political purposes. Which, perhaps that’s happened – I honestly haven’t noticed – but mostly it seems that he and his campaign have been forced to parry petulant philippics from Obama proxies.
In any case, Webb – whose own military career includes no-kidding acts of personal heroism in combat – seems oddly placed to ask McCain to lay off it: Not only have both men used their own personal records of service as testaments to their public character, but both have sons that served as Marines in Iraq. John McCain made very little mention of his son’s service there, while Webb spent his 2006 election campaign literally wearing his son’s combat boots on the stump.
Nothing wrong with that, considering Webb’s criticism of the Iraq war and his desire to keep the welfare of the troops in the forefront. But then to turn around and say that McCain is making too much of his military connections seems at the very least a bit disingenuous.
See also, “Smearing McCain,” for the left’s abject hypocrisy:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=D6316425-1DFE-4999-B8B5-50A81B0E0410
I heard former Sen. Rick Santorum discussing this phenom – pretty convincing discussion that Obama & Co vetted Clarke’s sunday McCain mil service discussion in advance & Santorum thought it was a [politically] smart move given timing in the race, proximity to 4Jul and given Obama’s exposure to questions of patriotism. This politics thing…pretty impressive, huh? May the most clever, sick bastard win.
re- “…Nothing wrong with that”
Surely you jest, or you are a closet Brit in your use of understatement. Sometimes silence is more effective. They’re not smart enough to figure that out. But McCain is, regardless of his class rank . Or maybe it’s in his genes? Nothing humble about Webb though. Nothing.
You know. He was once one of my favorites. That campaign and particularly his use of his son turned me off…..
I still wonder when the Change Caboose is gonna trot out Nathman to fire a shot from his pellet gun. Dumb and dumber. Who’s next?
I agree this whole strategy is bizarre. Can’t believe they’re doing it sometimes and it seems to be escalating. I’m convinced it’s payback time in some weird way for JfnKerry being scorched by his former shipmates the Swift Boat Vets.
These guys are besmirching themselves and demonstrating what honorless sum bitches thay are..
Again- really stuck on stupid with this strategy.
b2
Virginia Senator Jim Webb has now stepped into the McCain/Massengale Clark fray
Did you mean “Massengill”? Because that would be apropros…
Gary Alexanders take on the Clark/ McCain squabble:
http://tinyurl.com/5lz598
Cheers!
ChrisP
“The problem is not the correctness of the statement. It’s the tone-deafness and the insult implied. ”
That’s from a writer over at Andrew Sullivans place who points out that Clark just had to be a jerk-not suprising to anyone in the military. However what is amazing to me is how easy it would have been to side step the question entirely and get to McCain’s indecision about who he wants to be-Bush III or his own man.
Clark was never too bright about those things though.
Oh, Lex, you phrase-maker, you… “petulant philippics from Obama proxies.” Philip of Macedon would be proud. Me too. What a silver-tongued devil you are. Now you have to write your book/books.
Marianne
I think I’ve finally figured it out. Military service is only important if you’re a Democrat, and if you are a Democrat without military service—then NOT having served is ok, because it’s unimportant and a bogus issue. No less a luminary than Bill Clinton told us that all that stuff didn’t matter any more.
Holy jump’n jehosaphats, bat-people!
Talk about teapot tempests and mountainous molehills! And here I thought it was only “women” who unleashed such hellish “fury” when they imagined they were “scorned”. (To paraphrase the Bard.)
Despite the relentless attacks on Bush’s Presidency (deserved or not), to his credit, he has remained stoic and mostly unnerved during the long, unremitting onslaught on him.
If McCain reacts in such a thin-skinned and over-reactionary way to such a small statement – one perhaps awkwardly stated but nonetheless true- leads one to question McCain’s thin-skin temperament. It raises questions as to his appropriateness for the highest office.
Nearly 600 former Vietnam POW’s returned with John McCain. I have the pleasure and honor of knowing a few of them personally. But they will be the first to tell you (some laughingly), that their experience – as unimaginably arduous but honorable as it was – hardly qualifies them to run for President! Not even close, they say. (Good guys, and now successful, but I would have to agree.) So why is it so for McCain? These POW’s also, unlike McCain’s experience of whom we are reminded daily via film clips, rarely talk about their suffering or torture experience.
I once worked with a former POW for a decade at a large company. I had known him before and after his POW experience, but I kept it quiet. After he left our company, I was most surprised to learn that in those 10 years, most all of his closet co-workers had no idea he was a former POW.
(He was also known – by other POW’s and official reports – as one of the strongest resisters, and thus sent to a special camp north of Hanoi for the “hard cases.”)
I have never been a fan of Gen. Clark, for reasons many here have previously stated. But there can be no doubt, if you stack Clark’s and McCain’s military records and education, side by side, Clark’s record wins in no contest…. Even if he is a political arse. Nevertheless, what he stated on Face the Nation was true.
(And unlike the fictional Massingale, Clark sought combat and did indeed take some non-fiction AK-47 rounds to his body while in command, leading his troops in combat while in the jungles of Vietnam. How many here have done that?)
Our economy is going to hell in a hand basket, we are fighting two 5-year wars on two distant fronts and maybe starting another “mini-one”, despite our armies being tired and broken and our equipment trashed. Automakers and airlines among others are laying off many thousands of workers. Our education system is broken. Our national infrastructure is rapidly decaying. Dollar is in the dumps. Stock market down. Al Qaeda is growing. We are falling well behind many other countries in far too many areas. Approaching $5.00 gasoline and more will create national problems beyond belief. Yet some of us want to squabble about inconsequential and petty campaign crap and gotch’as.
McCain’s overreaction to Clark’s true statement conveniently distracts from the real issues of this campaign. There is a campaign purpose in that, and it’s working. But McCain has a very strange and superficial understanding of our nation’s problems, much less viable answers. Thus, he relies upon something that is not only distracting, but is difficult for the media to assail – his POWness.
I’m not totally sold on Obama yet, but he offers by far the most promise out of our malaise. Long ago I figured out McCain (from personal knowledge). I can tell you, our country deserves far, far better.
Flittrrr
1. It wasn’t the Bard.
2. Clark’s demonstrated ability in diplomatic affairs is positively luminous.
Cheers
Good catch. I stand corrected. It wasn’t the Bard. But I have an excuse.
My mother was extraordinarily well read and literate. Unusually well educated in a time when women mostly weren’t, (especially given her ethniciticty) working in DC for the Government and playing violin in the national symphony, she later bore me as an Iowa farm wife in her 40’s, after becoming intimately familiar with long hours in the long and hot fields on a Farmall Tractor.
But there was rarely a day on the farm when she did not quote some famous poet, or famous person.
Shakespeare quotes were often her favorites.
Back in the day, when I had many and repeated female relationship problems in high school, and early college, one of her oft-repeated quotes (aside from, “They’re many pebbles on the beach”) was “Hell hath no fury like a women scorned.”)
Since a bulk of this ’simple’ Iowa farm wife’s quotes were from Shakespeare, I always naturally assumed this was one, also.
Yours is a good catch, one that has escaped me for many years.
My mother died in 1998 at age 93… still living and maintaining by herself independently, until then… (although she was pi**ed they took her driver’s license away). She also never forgave me for voting for Reagan, first term…..
But that’s another story, which I later corrected.
So do you not think yours and my comments totally irrelevant, personally petty, and frivolous….given the far more major issues at hand?
Flit-
1. Running for president doesn’t require qualifications. If it did, this would be a 1 man race right now (or 1 man and 1 woman race if you want to be generous).
2. McCain has never said “I was a POW, make me president.”
3. The reason it IS important is because it goes to his character – something about wich Dems obviously don’t care. (See Clinton, W.J.) If Clinton, Kerry, Wes Clark, or Obama had been offered early release from a POW camp, my guess is that at least 3 of them would have been sitting in first class with fuzzy slippers on drinking mimosas.
4. Clark and Webb say that McCain’s service is not important, and he should shut up about it. If they had followed the same advice, they wouldn’t have had to spend any money on advertising, because they wouldn’t have had anything to say.
Hell, even NPR was giving Clark crap, that is how far off base he is. Clark is living proof of my theory that Flag Officer/General Officer selection is a quality spread. For each good guy you get, you have to also have a horses-ass.
So filter. Nose posited a good question the other day….
Does getting a PT boat cut in half make one qualified to be President?
i find myself in the interesting position of agreeing with both Nose and Skippy, plus B2 and Fliterman (right up until his conclusion)…
hmm. could it be that we all just generally deplore the unseemliness of the tenor under which the topic of mil service is employed in the current political environment, while reserving to ourselves our own personal opinions of the individual personalities of the politicians in question (as anecdotally reflected in their style of leadership from their service years)?
Quo vadis, Cincinnatus? Ut meus agri!
Bush the First got shot down, but then he only got one term as president.
Which really means nothing, but I’m kind of amused that nobody ever mentions Bush the First’s aviation record in this whole “does service/combat experience/POW experience matter” teapot.
Fliterman, you (eventually) bring up a good point: Lay McCain’s military record alongside that of Clark, and Clark’s will indeed look more impressive. Doesn’t everyone get to wear four stars on their collars and hobknob with international elites while fighting a war.
Except, you know, Clark’s not running for president. Don’t fret though, that same observation seems to have escaped the general as well.
And there is much more to McCain’s readiness to serve as president than those six years in a POW camp. He’s also got 26 years at the highest levels of federal government. As against what? Three and one half years as US senator (two of those spent running for president) some number of terms as a voting (present) member of the Illinois state house and time spent as a community activist. Well.
That’s why these petty attacks do more to diminish those who fling them than their ostensible target.
If Clark is launching his petits assassinés on his own, then he is every bit the man I have been led to believe he was. If he’s doing it in collaboration with the Obama camp, they are displaying a surprising degree of leaden ineptitude. You attack where your opponent is weak, not where he is strong. Now Obama is forced to stand in front of three (!) American flags, separate himself from Clark’s comments and protest his patriotism – all in time for the 4th of July weekend. That can’t have been the message they were looking for.
And I, for one, would love to hear a healthy debate about the issues that face us today rather than 30 years gone history (the same was true in 2004, BTW). But it’s not happening because your squad just can’t move on.
but, the Bard did tell us of the warrior Hotspur Percy who fought and died valliantly in battle — and Falstaff who made famous “discretion is the better part of valor” as he cowardly pretended to be dead and later took credit for the kill someone else performed. The famous quote is often misused today as a definition of real valor by those who massage the meanings of words, ideas, and ideals. Those of us that know someone that we would follow through hell know that there are things more important as character/leadership credentials than stars on shoulders or papers hanging on a wall. One must apply for a Rhodes Scholarship to take classes in England; no one ever applies for the scars McCain wears from the lessons he learned in Hanoi.
Sorry BJ
b2
flit,
re “If McCain reacts ”
He hasn’t. Proves my point above about who is the better man ‘tween him and Clark.
re- “Long ago I figured out McCain (from personal knowledge). ”
You obviously relish knowing which buttons to push with us folk who hold McCain’s POWness in very high regard. As usual you cleverly mitigate the situation and trivialize this stupid and mindless pattern of attack to standards most political spin meister can’t duplicate. Fine. We expect that from you. You’re predictable.
But what the hell does that statement mean? Are you saying you know McCain personally and you don’t like his personality? maybe s he done you wrong? perhaps Cindy McCain didn’t offer you a beer at a picnic? What is it? Speak up. Let us all in on your big secret.
BTW, I have never taken any AK-47 rounds (LOL- is this a new Dem litmus?) so I may not be qualified to say this according to your “standards”..but sinner that I am, even at my lowest level of meanness, I innately know I have more honor than that political gadfly, EX-General Clark-common prostitute with Rhodes credentials. Contrary to what you put forth above, militarily, Weasely Clark can’t hold a candle to McCain. McCain’s heroic service while a prisoner at the Hanoi Hilton trumps any of Wesley Clark’s military achievements within a process. In other words McCain’s fitreps are better and he gets the nod from this commander in chief screen board member.
b2
My biggest fear in all of these points-counter-points are:
1. If someone with the amount and kind of military service as McCain (looking beyond the POW experience i.e: carrier pilot, CO of a Squadron etc.) cannot be given as “credit” towards high public office (the highest one to be sure) then, no one coming out of the Military is qualified. What does this mean with respect to others such as Washington and Eisenhower who came before? I don’t know but I think these left wing attack-points speak to the hate of the military in general and they are using people of minimum credibility to discredit ALL military service. It serves them now in that the discussion is about McCain and if they win they have the bridge to whack any future runs to high office by others coming out of the military. To the far left loons running the Dem’s this is a win-win right now.
2. This is what I call the “Bush Lied” campaign redux. This time it is that McCain is “Not Qualified” and if they get enough ex-military to say this based on their own ‘Military Service’, and they get the media to keep on repeating that phrase, soon the public starts to believe in that spin. Just like what happened with the “Bush Lied” campaign. Its simple, the media goes along and soon McCain will have to argue FOR his qualifications, all the while the “Community Activist” gets a pass.
Change we can believe in, Hope that we get some lube applied before that great big screw job hits us next year!!!
BT: Jimmy T sends.
While this strawman swirls over Sen. McCain, and the the life experiences which have shaped his views, perhaps it may be a good idea to reflect upon the forces that have shaped Mr. O’s …
What do Obama, New Kids on the Block and the Cheetah Girls all have in common?
They were all nobodys before somebody made them what they are. My concern is who is that somebody who’s making Obama? You would think that the Democrats would have someone who is more qualified to run fro President. Instead we get a former First Lady, who’s now a Junior Senator and another Junior Senator who’s main qualification is that he’s black. WTF is going on? I want to know who is pulling the strings? Clark’s comments on McCain is just another of a long line of cheap shots taken by the Dems. Somebody is coordinating this. Don’t tell me that it is Howard Dean, but who is it?
26 years of transformation from Warfighter to Politician places McCain in a unique position over the likes of Wesley Clark or Jim Webb, having taken the time to develop skills necessary to legislate and negotiate with the opposition.
McCain, whether you agree with him or not, understands well that Congress does not go to the President and ’show him the way’ as Jim Webb stated, in a wholly arrogant and presumptuous manner, and would have the country believe the Dem’s are capable of doing.
Such a notion amply demonstrates the current mindset of not just the man, but the party with which he is affiliated. The same party that, previously, let their guy in the White House lie to them repeatedly about his affairs and then stand before the Nation to declare, essentially, that it was nobody’s damn business but “me, God, and Hillary’s”.
Oh, and this would be the same party that, nearly 25 years earlier, spared nothing in their attempts to oust another President accused of lying to them. Goes a long way towards showing their abject two-faced corruption…
Sorry to go a bit tangential here, but I think it applies well to a lot of what’s happening in the campaign process today. McCain, for his part, needs to man up and ask “You wanna sling mud, or you wanna talk issues? I can do both pretty well. You choose.”
Jim,
The answer is obvious. Karl Rove.
Uhhh. Isn’t he on the wrong side prowlerguy?
Sid,
Good find. Alinsky’s advice is what all community activists have used since the 70’s. Jessee Jackson, Al Sharpton and I’m sure Barrack Obama. I think Hillary hersef wrote a paper about his “how to guide”. Obama is actually one up on most- he’s a Harvard educated lawyer to boot, not litigator, but lawyer who is also 1/2 African-American and married to his mirror image.
Plus, he has the MSM in his hip pocket and all the $$.
Powerful stuff in aggregate….perfect timing for him too. I’m convinced he knows that with more exposure in the Senate he would have eventually been exposed as just another leftie senator. He was clever to take on and confront Hillary this cycle. Question is, can he flim-flam the American people? With the polls running so close there is a probablity 1/2 of them smell a rat…Support for him has remained flat since April and he and McCain are neck and neck in the polls. Go back to ‘88 when Bush I ran against Dukakis, George senior was down 15% points at this time. Soon and predictably, they will claim if you don’t support and vote for B.H.O. you’re probably a racist.
Just how smart are the American people? We’ll find out in November…
b2
That’s the power of his evil genius, Jim. He is able to make Democrats say the darndest things. Remember “I was for the 87 million before I was against it”? Rove. “We’re gonna make this a Chocolate City”? Rove. “The success of the surge is due to the goodwill of the Iranians”? Rove
See what I mean? Pure evil genius. They never see it coming.
I just blew Pepsi out of my nose, prowlerman when I read that, but seriously who’s pulling the strings on the Obama puppet?
Which, perhaps that’s happened – I honestly haven’t noticed – but mostly it seems that he and his campaign have been forced to parry petulant philippics from Obama proxies.
lex didn’t you mean
“Which, perhaps that’s happened – I honestly haven’t noticed – but mostly it seems that he and his campaign have been forced to parry petulant philippics from projecting Obama proxies.”?
I believe that is the correct puhsychological term.
Lex wrote.
“He’s also got 26 years at the highest levels of federal government. As against what? Three and one half years as US senator”
Make that 142 or 143 days actually in the Senate.
As Senior Chief F. used to say, “When you’ve got as much time in the Navy as I’ve got on a Navy head I’ll be interested in your opinion.”
Seems apropos here too…
My $0.02. The Democrats aren’t above using the military angle when it suits them Webb carried his son’s combat boots around Virginia as a prop when he ran for senate. Hillary Clinton claimed that she dodged sniper fire on the tarmac at Tuzla. It goes to charachter, and McCain has plenty of it.
One of my friends at work is a graduate of West Point (1964). He was 2 years ahead of Clark, but has no memory of him, even though the school was smaller then. What he did say was that the alumni message boards are absolutely BURNING with invective about General Clark for this attack. He was not well liked before this, and now he is actively hated. General Clark was viewed as a politician with an out of control ego, who was always looking to boost himself at others expense. Getting relieved of command for the Balkans fiasco was the icing on the cake.
One last dig at Senator Webb regarding charachter. Midshipman North beat him fair and square in that boxing match, and Webb hasn’t ever come to terms with it.
B2,
Alinsky’s book Rules for Radicals is not an unuseful read. Alinsky’s a full-on leftist type; he brings up good and (somewhat politically unrelated) points about how to effect political change. Unfortunately, those who heard about the book or read it incompletely caused the required lame chants and giant puppets at demonstrations nowadays–that was new when Alinsky was young, but he’s been gone a long time now.
I have used lessons from Alinsky’s methods, on occasion, to good effect…for goals that might well have made Alinsky blanch.