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	<title>Comments on: Shifting fires</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/07/20/shifting-fires/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/07/20/shifting-fires/</link>
	<description>The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy!</description>
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		<title>By: b2</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/07/20/shifting-fires/comment-page-1/#comment-433104</link>
		<dc:creator>b2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4474#comment-433104</guid>
		<description>Nose,

Ooops. Screwed up again. Sorry Bruce.

Don&#039;t you like Cat Woman, too? The Julie Newmar one of course, not the Kill Bill variety with the big thumbs.

Alfred, another Old Milwaukee, please!

b2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nose,</p>
<p>Ooops. Screwed up again. Sorry Bruce.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you like Cat Woman, too? The Julie Newmar one of course, not the Kill Bill variety with the big thumbs.</p>
<p>Alfred, another Old Milwaukee, please!</p>
<p>b2</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tom G.</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/07/20/shifting-fires/comment-page-1/#comment-433096</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4474#comment-433096</guid>
		<description>Lex: &quot;Culture change is inherently wrenching and the kind of change the region needs to join the modern world will not be imposed from without. &quot;

John Henry Newman: &quot;History teaches that barbarian nations are conquered from without and civilized  nations are conquered from within.&quot;

Of course we can&#039;t fight prejudice (here or there) without changing the heart, but imho, assaults on the &quot;head&quot; will predispose the &quot;heart&quot; ala Nazi Germany &amp; Imperial Japan. 

On the Newman quote: Some will rightfully argue which one the west is becoming, but I&#039;ve commited to the folks who desire to be around to argue the merits of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lex: &#8220;Culture change is inherently wrenching and the kind of change the region needs to join the modern world will not be imposed from without. &#8221;</p>
<p>John Henry Newman: &#8220;History teaches that barbarian nations are conquered from without and civilized  nations are conquered from within.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course we can&#8217;t fight prejudice (here or there) without changing the heart, but imho, assaults on the &#8220;head&#8221; will predispose the &#8220;heart&#8221; ala Nazi Germany &amp; Imperial Japan. </p>
<p>On the Newman quote: Some will rightfully argue which one the west is becoming, but I&#8217;ve commited to the folks who desire to be around to argue the merits of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Nose</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/07/20/shifting-fires/comment-page-1/#comment-433094</link>
		<dc:creator>Nose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4474#comment-433094</guid>
		<description>b2,

Hint:  If you want to hide your secret identity, don&#039;t sign the posts with your &quot;real name.&quot;

Bruce Wayne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>b2,</p>
<p>Hint:  If you want to hide your secret identity, don&#8217;t sign the posts with your &#8220;real name.&#8221;</p>
<p>Bruce Wayne</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SeniorD</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/07/20/shifting-fires/comment-page-1/#comment-433089</link>
		<dc:creator>SeniorD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4474#comment-433089</guid>
		<description>Cap&#039;n (Ret),

Since we’re talking about savagery and the fates of nations, it’s useful to reflect on the fate of the nine citizens of the Islamic Republic of Iran who have  been sentenced to death by stoning there.

Therein lies the rub.  Entire cultures are based upon 7th Century Islamic concepts.  By introducing the more modern culture of republican democracy, we introduce a  major lever for cultural upheaval.  Virtually every other culture whose legacy begins with Christianity or Judiaism, have &#039;moved forward&#039; and away from the more barbaric aspects still common to Islam.  How long will it be before those cultures join the modern world around them?  What needs to be done to encourage the people view their religious teachings in something other than the narrow focus of shar&#039;ia law?

In answer to these questions consider - 

Germany, a European country transitioning from Monarchy to democratic anarchy to strong-man rule under National Socialism to Republican Democracy, took at least two (2) generations to reach their current level of participative government.  South Korea, welcomes democracy, but imbued with their own cultural basis.  Japan?  Well Skippy is more prepared to voice his perspective.

The end result is the long road ahead to change an entire culture.  As you say, &quot;Leave we must&quot; but have we inculcated enough knowledge and wisdom within the leadership to make the lessons stick?

Only time will tell.  It will not likely occur in our lifetime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cap&#8217;n (Ret),</p>
<p>Since we’re talking about savagery and the fates of nations, it’s useful to reflect on the fate of the nine citizens of the Islamic Republic of Iran who have  been sentenced to death by stoning there.</p>
<p>Therein lies the rub.  Entire cultures are based upon 7th Century Islamic concepts.  By introducing the more modern culture of republican democracy, we introduce a  major lever for cultural upheaval.  Virtually every other culture whose legacy begins with Christianity or Judiaism, have &#8216;moved forward&#8217; and away from the more barbaric aspects still common to Islam.  How long will it be before those cultures join the modern world around them?  What needs to be done to encourage the people view their religious teachings in something other than the narrow focus of shar&#8217;ia law?</p>
<p>In answer to these questions consider &#8211; </p>
<p>Germany, a European country transitioning from Monarchy to democratic anarchy to strong-man rule under National Socialism to Republican Democracy, took at least two (2) generations to reach their current level of participative government.  South Korea, welcomes democracy, but imbued with their own cultural basis.  Japan?  Well Skippy is more prepared to voice his perspective.</p>
<p>The end result is the long road ahead to change an entire culture.  As you say, &#8220;Leave we must&#8221; but have we inculcated enough knowledge and wisdom within the leadership to make the lessons stick?</p>
<p>Only time will tell.  It will not likely occur in our lifetime.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Skippy-san</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/07/20/shifting-fires/comment-page-1/#comment-433103</link>
		<dc:creator>Skippy-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4474#comment-433103</guid>
		<description>B2,

I never used the W word once. But if the blame fits-he can wear it.

If there is a nuclear exchange in Asia it will come between India and Pakistan-not in the Arab world. India, who by the way, we just enhanced their nuclear capability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B2,</p>
<p>I never used the W word once. But if the blame fits-he can wear it.</p>
<p>If there is a nuclear exchange in Asia it will come between India and Pakistan-not in the Arab world. India, who by the way, we just enhanced their nuclear capability.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: BillT</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/07/20/shifting-fires/comment-page-1/#comment-433091</link>
		<dc:creator>BillT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=4474#comment-433091</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Pashtunwali&lt;/i&gt; has so far been al-Q&#039;s umbrella because they&#039;re guests, even though they&#039;re lousy ones -- they accompanied the Taliban into the tribal areas, and the Taliban are fellow Pashtuns. Pashtun honor demands that guests be protected so long as the guests don&#039;t bring dishonor to the host.

The tough part will be to convince the tribes that the al-Q sheltering with them have dishonored themselves and their hosts by killing innocents and by using suicide as a tool to do so. 

The tougher part is that now the Wahhabi are teaching that non-Wahhabi are not innocents, and that a suicider is a martyr so holy it doesn&#039;t matter that his actions are prohibited by the Koran.

What it boils down to is that Wahhabism is going to have to be killed from the roots up, rather than by lopping off branches in the hope that it will eventually stop growing. The good news is that at least *some* of the more radical madrassas in Pakistan have started to move toward the moderate side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Pashtunwali</i> has so far been al-Q&#8217;s umbrella because they&#8217;re guests, even though they&#8217;re lousy ones &#8212; they accompanied the Taliban into the tribal areas, and the Taliban are fellow Pashtuns. Pashtun honor demands that guests be protected so long as the guests don&#8217;t bring dishonor to the host.</p>
<p>The tough part will be to convince the tribes that the al-Q sheltering with them have dishonored themselves and their hosts by killing innocents and by using suicide as a tool to do so. </p>
<p>The tougher part is that now the Wahhabi are teaching that non-Wahhabi are not innocents, and that a suicider is a martyr so holy it doesn&#8217;t matter that his actions are prohibited by the Koran.</p>
<p>What it boils down to is that Wahhabism is going to have to be killed from the roots up, rather than by lopping off branches in the hope that it will eventually stop growing. The good news is that at least *some* of the more radical madrassas in Pakistan have started to move toward the moderate side.</p>
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