If you haven’t read his “Faith of My Fathers,” or don’t believe the monochromatic portraits painted either by his political friends or enemies, Newsweek has a useful introduction to the Senator from Arizona.
It is only in those most intimate relationships that we concede to others the same degree of complexity we claim as a birth right for ourselves.
Update: On a somewhat lighter note, there are also new facts about Sarah Palin being revealed, one after another. Sample – “Sarah Palin begins every day with a moment of silence for the political enemies buried in her yard.”
Hey, it’s at least as accurate as the New York Times reporting on the Alaskan governor.
been toying around with a phrase that best fits the pic…
There are times when one Hopes they have the Audacity to survive.
Some have faced such a challenge more than once at a young age.
Some haven’t.
Sid,
Good comment. Most folks don’t know McCain’s first “trial by fire” was the result of the Forrestal disaster. Courage in tough circumstances more than once.
The book gives a window into the candidate’ s complexity but it also gives evidence of virtues such as duty, honor and courage.
did i happen to mention that i just happen to have a personally autographed copy of it, signed by himself? which is mine own copy? which he, himself signed? back about two full election cycles ago, when himself was standing for candidacy himself?
because i do.
from himself.
which is nice.
Keep your fingers crossed that Palin knocks one out of the park tonight and in her initial media interviews. My bet is that she will surprise the media. She’s already impressed CNBC’s Maria Bartaromo, apparently the only national journalist to have taken the time to know her before rendering a judgment.
Well, folks, that’s what Sarah did … knocked one out of the park, that is. In all my 80 years, I’ve never heard a better speech, more movingly delivered. It’s hard for me to believe that she isn’t a veteran actress, with lots of hits to her credit. The hits were there, all right … bullseyes every one. The crowd loved her, and the beautiful Mrs.’s McCains loved her. What fun to have heard that broadcast. After Lex’s experience when he tried to listen to Bush’s speech, I tuned in to PBS, but the pundits were maundering on, so I tried CBS. At least Brokaw et al were quiet until she finished.
It was a true love feast, friends, and I feel much more confident that the McCain/Palin ticket has a chance of winning. Good on them!
Marianne
Agreed, Marianne. I loved it! She took on Teh One with a nice smile on her face and got in some excellent jabs.
She kicked a$$.
Pick a fight with this woman, please. I just want to watch…
She was historic tonight. Quite simply historic.
Some have called the left’s attacks on Palin, “Palinsanity.”
Well, they have even more reason to be out of their minds now. This lady is not afraid of a good political brawl. In fact, I don’t think she’s afraid of much. Sparks in the eyes, steel in the spine and a wicked smile to let them know that it isn’t personal.
All I can say is she has driven my support for McCain from lukewarm to hot. Go MCCAIN/PALIN!!!!! And God Bless America!
This is going to be a long two months. :-O
Or longer……………..
BTW, she’s not the only politician with a son going to Iraq soon.
#1 sid – I’m not sure, but I assume your photo link is supposed to the USS Forrestal with John McCain aboard.
Allow me to comment.
Lauding LCDR McCain’s inadvertent, wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time Forestall “trial by fire” and thereby implying as many do, his “heroics” – without ever mentioning or acknowledging his many actual, truly heroic, and dedicated shipmates – 132 of McCain’s shipmates died, two were missing, and 62 more injured – really tightens my jaws.
Those young guys were the real heroes. Not McCain!
I really bristle at McCain’s handlers putting him above them, without even mentioning their sacrifice!
While McCain was escaping ( indeed acting as he was trained) the flight deck, more heroic yellow/red/brown/blue-etc-shirts crew members, led by a mostly unknown and unfortunately still unheralded CPO, all died by rushing into the conflagration, trying to save lives, aircraft and their ship. Nevertheless despite that first wave of heroic men dying before their eyes in fire, another wave of intrepid men rushed in to save the ship amid and despite continued ordnance exploding. And then indeed, another wave rushed into hell.
McCain meanwhile was being transferred to another ship.
Aside from the conspiracy stories of McCain starting the fire (by his alleged practical joke of an intentional “wet-start” just to give the F-4 behind him some mischievous grief, but instead, inadvertently by the excessive flaming start, caused a Zuni rocket to be fired that started the disaster – which are plausible theories given his maverick nature – but I don’t personally believe nor subscribe to those stories.
I doubt McCain caused the disaster. Nevertheless, there is nothing “heroic” by being in a conflagration and running away to escape it.
Likewise, no one volunteers for POW duty to serve his or her country.
No heroics necessary to get there, above and beyond your brave wingmen who don’t end up there. Mistakes, maybe. Mostly, just “wrong place at the wrong time” even if you have done everything else right.
Yet over 600 guys spent time in various NV prisons, enduring varying degrees of brutal treatment and they all responded with varying degrees of resistance to torture. Some spent many more years than McCain and some were tortured far more, and indeed some died, defiantly or not. And some were far more fortunate. Many understandably wavered; but some never did give in to torture, as did McCain.
As I recall, nearly all POWs were offered “early release” for certain “favors”, not just McCain.
At least three did agree, but only one with the blessing of the SOP. A majority of 600 POWs to 2 refused early release, just as McCain did. Therefore, his refusal was uniform and in line; ergo, nothing special.
While I have no problem with many former POWs writing books to tell their personal, amazing, and inspiring stories, (however, the large majority of POWs are still very reluctant to expose their heroic experiences or rat on fellow POWs even today) I do have a great problem with anyone who uses it excessively – their POW experience – over and over and over again, to deflect all questions and especially, to promote their personal advancement to political office.
McCain’s excess in promoting his “POW experience” cheapens the severe and brutal but exemplary experience of the many other Navy, Air Force and other personnel who defiantly resisted there, many far more and far better despite their torture.
Indeed there are some stories of those who died in captivity resisting to the end, but their stories have never been revealed. Why don’t we know about them? Why doesn’t “shipmate” John McCain ever acknowledge them in his presidential campaign? And why has he forgotten the Forestall CPO and the 133 others who gave their lives for their ship?
Has he also forgotten to mention the torture of other POWs in Hanoi? Their incredible resistance? Their undying allegiance to the (old) Code of Honor” Given the repeated, ad nauseum story of McCain’s POW experience, you’d think McCain was the only one there. How ’bout a nod to those who suffered equally and far greater? And to those who died?
Please Google the Forestall fire. Learn about the many real heroes who no longer live to be able to run for office, much less return to their loved ones. Learn the true heroes, not the one who uses disasters as a platform for their personal political gain.
Gosh, Flitter, I had to clean the spittle off my monitor. I’m not gonna rebut your “argument”, except to say that I don’t plan to get dirty. Have a nice day, chum.
Wow, Flit — so much wrong in that screed, one barely knows where to start — but let me start with the allegation that there was a “unfortunately still unheralded CPO” that led the Forrestal flight deck crew. I don’t know what you consider a sufficient tribute, but you are referring to Chief Petty Officer Gerald W. Farrier. Chief Farrier was the man with the extinguisher bottle, seen clearly in the PLAT video, who disappears in one of the first MK82 explosions. “Unheralded”? Not to any of the almost 10,000 annually who go through the Navy’s Norfolk fire fighting center that bears his name. It is a living memorial to his courage, and for you to say Chief Farrier is “unheralded” is Procrustean logic at its finest.
Well I guess the McCain/Palin ticket really has the socialist among us running scared. I mean really, fliterman, do you honestly think that none of us remember the actual PLAT film of the Forestal? You know, where you clearly see the A-4s parked on the port side? Or maybe you’re hoping that the laws of physics will allow a plane on the port side with their aft end over the scuppers to somehow magically ignite zuni rockets on and F-4 on the starboard side of the ship?
And thank you very much, but I already know about the true heroes, not the one who uses the lies of anonymous surrogates as a platform for their personal political gain.
Desperation. It’s what for dinner.
Good Grief. I’m a civilian and even *I* know who Chief Farrier was. So much for unheralded.
Regarding other POWs, I’ve got an idea. Why don’t the Democrats see if they can get several hundred POWs to denouce John McCain? If the claims of his grandstanding and “excess in promoting his ‘POW experience’(as if he wasn’t really a POW)” are indeed true, then it must really grate on those honorable men, and it shouldn’t be too hard to find a whole bunch to denounce him. Right??
I must say, after last night, that I can now say that I am now voting FOR McCain/Palin instead of voting AGAINST Obama/Biden. Dang, she was good!
Well Byron, guess I’ll slither into this CHT tank and stir it up to maybe unclog some cranial fecal impactions…Not hopeful that it’ll do much good though.
#1 sid – I’m not sure, but I assume your photo link is supposed to the USS Forrestal
Flit, with as much decorum as I can muster, let me just tell you…You are a Jackass.
I put that picture up on this venue because there are many here who have “been there done that”.
I don’t mean were actually in the fire; but who have pondered how they would act if they were actually confronted with the grave misfortune of having to face such a scene.
Nobody really knows until they have been there. McCain was there.
Whatever else may be said about him, in an in extremis situation, the man knows in his soul who he is, what he is.
Any genuine hero…if you happen to catch one of the rare times they actually talk about the experience that defines them so…will tell you they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
without ever mentioning or acknowledging his many actual, truly heroic, and dedicated shipmates
So happens I know several folks who were aboard on that July day in ‘67 as well Flit…while America at large was engrossed in the “Summer of Love”. They knew then what it felt like to be forgotten.
They are all heroes Flit.
[McCain started the fire] which are plausible theories given his maverick nature
Of all the places in the internet universe, you pick this blog to float this Mr. Hankey!
I’m sure the good Captain Lex -who has been around a carrier deck or two- could let you know how plausible those “theories” are.
To all, google up “McCain Forrestal” and tell me that a deliberate misinformation campaign that makes Kerry’s “swiftboating” pale in comparison is not being waged.
Those 134 souls deserve better.
Fliterman’s screed scarcely deserves reply, yet the stench of his lies here disturbs me as if he’d left a turd in the living room.
I for one did not know Chief Farrier’s name, but I recall the PLAT vividly. The explosions and men briefly running away, then turning right around and charging right back in. I honor them all, but I’m thankful that now I know of Chief Farrier.
Likewise, no one volunteers for POW duty to serve his or her country.
Any more than everyone stays a POW after being offered the (strings attached) opportunity to leave, at least.
Don’t get me wrong – I don’t think being a POW qualifies anyone for anything other than our respect for surviving the ordeal with honor intact. But, as Fred Thompson said, it does demonstrate something about character. That said, there are clearly a whole lot of people that couldn’t care less about honor, character, ethics, etc. in their choice of Executives.
To each his own, I suppose. That is, after all, the very essence of being a free people. But for those of us that do care about the quality of the man we choose to follow, however, this stuff matters. The alternative to McCain, just as the alternative(s) to Bush before him, is untenable.
Scott. You forgot to mention the countless sailors who were made to watch”Trial By Fire” in their shipboard and aircraft firefighting classes through out the Navy over the last how many years. ( I saw it in 1982)
I was part of the Forrestal’s Air Wing for over two years. During my time on that ship, you couldn’t forget that fire. If it wasn’t the warped steel beams in the back of the hangar bay above AIMD, it was the big bronze plaque in Hangar Bay 1.
By the way, it was my understanding that the Zuni rocket fired because of a shortcut used in the wiring of the arming system, not because the rocket cooked off.
When I went to my first squadron, our Skipper had been on Forrestal as a young ensign when the fire happened. He was airborne in the marshall stack at the time so his E-2A got diverted to Cubi. He had squadron mates on the ship though and the stories he told were pretty scary especially for us newbies.
RE #11 Flit “Allow me to comment”
Me: (Thinking to myself-Oh boy, here we go again, the world according to Flit) “I really wish you wouldn’t, but it’s not my call & Lex seems to be OK with it.”
Flit: “I really bristle at McCain’s handlers putting him above them, without even mentioning their sacrifice!”
REALLY! Well I, for one, was completely fooled. You just have that way of coming off so calm & collected. Not only that, but I’m equally impressed with your command of the facts, well done SIR!
Likewise, no one volunteers for POW duty to serve his or her country.
Yea, well – did you also happen to look into the history of the ship/airwing he volunteered to go to when FID was put out of action by the fire? Go check out the h3ll that was the Oriskany’s cruise durnig that timeframe and how many aircrew she had already lost over the North when McCain volunteered to join them to help fill their losses.
No one volunteersto be a POW, but we go into the job knowing that is one of three possible alternatives…
- SJS
deleted upon reflection
I’ve been on a media blackout for the past 3 days as myself and my hubby took some much needed R&R. However, it didn’t escape my notice that people have already been picking fights with Ms. Palin…
And it’s not going well for them, now is it.
Sarah! kicked some serious butt last night; the rest of this campaign – which has been until now grating on my nerves – has just gotten interesting. Damned interesting indeed.
Can’t wait to see how she does in the debates. Fun times will be had by all – at least all on the side of McCain/Palin!
fliterman mentions the “conspiracy” stories but “doesn’t subscribe to them,” even though he finds them “plausible.” How nice. I don’t see why he would bring them up, but hey. Of course, a few seconds at the Wiki page on the Forrestal fire would clear the “controversy” quite quickly. McCain’s A-4 is clearly diagrammed as stationed portside aft, with the tail pointing to the ocean. The only wet start possible would involve sea water.
fliterman then says -after mentioning the genuine heroics of the deck crew- only that “McCain meanwhile was being transferred to another ship,” with the implication that McCain somehow abandoned his ship. Whoops, silly me, he did go on to say that the LCDR was “running away.” Too bad the real reason he was flown off was because he had been hit by shrapnel from the explosions.
Too bad fliterman didn’t follow his own advice and google (or even wiki) the event. It’s obvious he’s a hater, can’t say why.
BTW, as for “running away,” if memory serves McCain had a chance to return home with the Forrestal, but instead volunteered to transfer to the Oriskany.
filterman, RE your comment#11 above…
Let me repeat, at no charge, a bit of sound advice I gave, one fourth of July in response to a comment made by my old new best friend, and chronic dyspeptic, Casca ( where has that old fun loving Pecker-Wood gone ?? ) … it goes like this…
” why don’t you lighten the f**k- up, quit sucking lemons, take a couple of Midols and kick back and enjoy the rest of the day”…or in your case the rest of your life… Best
Is that advice for Palin?
I guess this makes Sarah Palin the new Chuck Norris.
And really, I’m okay with that. She’s much easier to watch on TV.
The only fight Chuck Norris lost was to Sarah Palin.
Really, fliterman, God knows we’ve had our disagreements before, and I’ve come to expect a fair degree of emotionalism in your signal-to-noise ratio, but this sort of “well, *I* don’t actually believe in any of the trash I’m about to spew”, this “fling it to the wall and see what sticks” sort of thing – it’s just beneath you.
Rebellious; foul mouthed; bad temper–and warriors and servants of their country to the core. I’ve been reading about McCain’s grandfather and father. Bull Halsey said that Slew McCain was “nothing other than my right arm”. Jack “Good Goddamn McCain” was a successful sub skipper. Is John McCain their equal? I don’t know, but it strikes me that he comes from good stock and he’s certainly been shown the lessons. So John McCain knows who he is–and we know who he is. His opponent? Not so much.
And as for Governor Palin? Well she’s a small town girl, and she also knows who she is. I would not willingly cross her. Last night, she added another couple of political bodies to that cemetery in her front yard. A politician who can fillet an enemy with a smile, and without people getting angry at her while she’s doing it has a unique ability.
Dear Filterman,
Lex is right, listen to him – this is far, far from your best work. I’ve not written and or deleted several posts over the last couple of days and avoided making a couple of remarks when passing by colleagues engaged in public partisan conversations and have been better for it. Best to sing the “I’m sorry song” and make a fresh start
tune here (starting at 32 seconds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7UhpnQ1Rsc&feature=related
lyrics here
(about 20% down the page) – you could consider this a twofer for the revelation about Palin being a member of the Alaska Independence Party, non?
Sincerely,
David
@Jim Collins (et. al.)
The Zuni in question fired because of a defect in the armament system in that aircraft and in the rocket pod itself. I had the fortune of speaking with a very smart AOC a while ago who discussed with me the scenario.
Apparently, the F-4 had a problem where it would periodically pop armament system circuit breakers when it was going from ground to aircraft power. The solution was to just push these things back in and call it even. Unfortunately, the Zuni pods in question had an issue where you could not tell if they were armed simply by looking at them, this of course predating the days when we have safety pins and better mechanical interlocks. Once those breakers were pushed back in, they would (on occasion) send a voltage pulse through the system and to whatever ordnance happened to be on the wing at the time.
In the case of the Forrestal, we have a perfect storm: Armed and loaded pod. F-4. Blown breakers. Pilot pushes them back in.
I (like others above who came before me) saw this video in 1993 during basic and recall to this day the sense of sheer, unadulterated horror of what exactly can go wrong on a carrier flight deck.
Today we have checklists, stray voltage checks, better systems, and an understanding of what can really go wrong. This is not to say that we can allow the margin for safety give us a false sense of security.
Insofar as the rest of the discussion here? You’ll have to excuse me from commenting on things until after November. Admiral Mullen had a thing or two to say about espousing political viewpoints whilst in uniform not too long ago.
For the reocrd “Sailors to the End” has the full discussion of the fire, to include the aftermath of the investigation report.
First off, it wasn’t a MK 82 cooking off. It was left over WWII Comp B stock that was loaded in the Phillipines to meet the numbers, as they had run out of the MK 80 series bombs. The crew had approached the fire thinking they had ten minutes of working time to get the fire out, before the MK 80 series ordnance would cook off. The old bombs somehow didn’t get the word.
Second off: The proximate cause of the missile firing was a no kidding stray volatage issue. Blend in the first LANT CV to enter the fray and wanting to show off how they could compete and excel against their already experienced brethen on Yankee Station. Part of that was blowing by the rule of not connecting the ordnance until on the cats. At least there, a loose missile just scares the guys near the pointy end, but shouldn’t impact anything but maybe the deck on it’s way off the rail. The FID crew decided that would slow the launch cycle. They tried something else…and another lesson learned written with spilled blood.
Facts: They kinda spoil your own illogical thoughts….
Another “Lesson learned” on ship board fires was from the Oriskany (mentioned by SJS). Improper handling of flares on that one cost 47 lives and again, shortcuts were taken. For a summary of the cruise check “Over the Beach” by Grant.
Flit: I can only second Sid and Snake’s comments on your goofy diatribe.
Chuck Norris and Sarah Palin have never met each other, much less fought each other…
… because they know that two irresistible forces meeting two immovable objects will lead to a space/time disruption that only the two of them will survive.
/sorry, I got nothing to add to the actual discussion of Sen McCain’s military service.
Drew C -
Good points. I’m pretty sure that “whilst” writing on a blog with an anonymous name, you are not “in uniform.” Keep talking my friend! I don’t think Mikey M. will mind…
Best,
Nose