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Athens vs Sparta

On the Severn:

(Naval Academy) students attracted to history or political science say that they have no trouble satisfying their craving for intellectual challenge and reflection. (Professor Williamson) Murray said that, while he was appalled by the ignorance of the incoming freshmen, he found that the students in one of his senior seminars were “by far and away” superior to those he had taught at Yale and elsewhere in their “level of sophistication, writing ability, understanding of history, capacity to connect the dots between different periods.” These students are just as inclined as good students everywhere to question established wisdom.

Good lads (and lasses).

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13 comments to Athens vs Sparta

  • 11B40

    Greetings:

    Back in the last ’80s, I worked for the US Navy Printing & Publications Service (as a civilian) in Newport, Rhode Island. Two of the commands we supported were Surface Warfare Officer School and the Naval War College. Believe me, the materials we printed for them college and graduate level materials.

  • Curtis

    I read the article and find it interesting that the author could not find it within him to mention that McCain has a son at Sparta on Severn.

  • Bill C

    The article is what one could expect from the New York Times. He seems to have a problem with anything dealing with John McCain, or earlier. I was reminded of an interview I saw years ago with an Army General and a Marine General. The Army General went to great lengths describing how they went about training young men to fight future wars. The Marine simply stated “We teach Marines how to WIN future wars”.

  • Humble1390

    Good article. Maybe some of the folks back in CT won’t think I “squandered my talents going to that military school.” Probably just wishful thinking.

    FWIW, my perspective from the other side of the desk was that we were much better edumacted than our civilian brethren. Worked with a number of bright, head-of-the-class folks from Cornell, MIT, Caltech, and the like. I was always amazed at what they didn’t know. For example, a senior Electrical Engineering major from MIT (!) who had no clue how to solder.

    Looks like drinking from the firehose does get more down one’s throat after all.

  • virgil xenophon

    I dunno about the Army bit, Bill C. As the son of a WWII Co. Commander in the 42nd Rainbow Div and with two ETO experienced cousins, West Point of 43 (roommates, Al [arty]married Maurice’s [AAF] sister–told her they were going to be married on first date–it’s lasted a lifetime.) I’d have to take issue with that.

    As to the Academies vs Harvard or Yale?
    Any institution in which 60% of the undergraduates receive a grade of A- or
    better(Harvard) means that the average welding school certificate of completion has more academic heft and rigor behind it than any piece of paper from the Ivy League.

  • Ltjg Andrew

    Humble, I don’t know when you graduated, but I’m working my way through the nuc pipeline with members of the class of ’07. I’m sorry but they generally demonstrate minimal comprehension of engineering, especially compared to actual engineers with actual engineering degrees. The folks with a “B.S.” in a social “science” are even worse. And they certainly don’t know much about the operational Navy. In their collective defense, while some may say they are a few bricks short of a full load, at least they are the sharpest tools in the shed.

  • Rivetjoint

    Humble, my Dad was an EE with Bell Labs for many years, doing quite well with his BS from Marquette. He was extremely handy and I would stand in awe of him fixing the TV and tagging along for the trip to the electronics store to test the tubes. The Labs did lots of pure research in those days, lots of eggheads with impressive advanced degrees. Dad would comment scornfully “Yeah, but they don’t know which end of a hammer to use…”

  • Anyone who gets to attend a Williamson Murray course is very fortunate, indeed.

  • jweb

    Hillary Clinton, 0; the war hero and Navy legend John McCain, 7; Barack Obama, 13.

    Yes, but apparently the new youth could use some sharpening. :-)

    sincerely,

    jweb (a miserable Citadel math grad who wasn’t smart enough to make it to the academy)

  • I imagine the McCain 7, Obama 13, if it holds brigade-wide is simply a matter of the midshipmen’s age group which overwhelmingly supports Obama, not the fact that they’re at the Academy. Younger people are just more liberal because they don’t know any better.

    I think it was Churchill who said “if you aren’t a liberal as a young man, you have no heart; if you aren’t a conservative as an adult, you have no common sense.”

  • Speaking of besting the Ivy League- I’d just like to remind all present that a certain Southern Military College beat Princeton yesterday 37-24.

    A great day!

  • Byron Audler

    And a certain SEC team beat the snot out of a certain Pac-10 team ;)

  • Marine6

    I was fortunate enough to spend several very short tours at the NPGS as a guest lecturer. This was back in the 80′s. I have a good friend who is a very sharp PHd Astrophysicist at Stanford.

    Over the years we have talked about the quality of the students at the respesctive institutions. His take on the situtation was that the students at Stanford were were probably superior in pure intellectual capability, but the students at NPGS were clearly superior in actual accomplishment.

    My own observation was that the NPGS students were at that point where they had made a career commitment and recognized that superior performance would be rewarded. On the other hand, many of the Stanford students were largely marking time and waiting to see what they really wanted to do when they grew up.

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