Sit down. Shut the hell up.
Thank God we live in a free country, where you can speak your mind on public issues, without fear that those who disagree will respond by exposing anything you’ve ever done that you regret or that could embarrass your family.
Oh, wait, never mind. We have to know, according to some, about Joe the Plumber’s tax lien, and how he doesn’t have a license – which, if the smear artists bothered to check the law, he only needs for commercial work, not residential work.
This is the way our opponents operate now. Destroy anyone who stands in your way…
Show them that this sort of dangerous speech won’t be allowed in the New America.
When I lived in Japan, the locals had a saying: “The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.”
Color this, “globalization”.
Well, as Pitts reminds us in #45 above, there are some subtle distinctions: The Democrats put a 12-year old kid in the national spotlight seeking an expensive public policy change that would change the level of SCHIP access from families earning at twice the US poverty level to families earning triple the going rate. They did so knowing that they had a win-win issue: Gain votes from those looking for yet another expansion of the sort of middle class entitlements that are slowly bankrupting the public fisc, or force their political opposition to – once again – demonstrate their heartlessness when it comes to Saving Teh Children.
Unless we were to unquestioningly allow bloody shirt style dramatics to bully elected representatives to enact public health care policy changes based on one-off emotional appeals rather than rigorous analysis, it seemed to me then, as now, right and fair to look at the underlying facts of the instant case, especially as they pertained to the parents that had voluntarily thrust their own child into the national spotlight, and who had made as a lifestyle choice a decision to forgo medical insurance for their children. Hoping, you know: For the best. And after all, those $20,000 a year private school educations weren’t going to pay for themselves now, were they?
Which, if the American people are to get into the habit of underwriting the shitty choices made by people who really ought to have known better, we’re going to find ourselves digging ever more deeply into our own reserves – so much so that we ourselves will each and every one of us have to submit to our new status as wards of the state. Which, from the perspective of the state, is a pretty good place to have us. Oh, wait – too late.
Alternately, Mr. Obama sought out Joe the Plumber on his own front porch, which individual only had the audacity to ask a presidential contender about his policy preferences. At which time the presidential contender deviated from his prepared script to reply in an off-hand fashion that he was in favor of a broad redistribution of personal wealth that had not been a major element of his policy discourse up until that moment, and which model has been repeatedly rejected by majorities of American voters over the years. None of which remotely depended upon the tax lien status, political affiliation or vocational licensing of the person doing the questioning on his own front porch at the invitation of the presidential candidate. Unless only Democratic partisans are allowed to ask questions of The One chosen to heal our partisan divisions. Which, if true, underlines the unspoken presumption many of us have that when Mr. Obama “builds his bridges” to the other side, it’s not with the intention of meeting anyone half way, but rather to invite them over to his side, or else risk being labeled “divisive,” and then personally destroyed. Pour encourager les autres.
Which, as a method of down and dirty “last man standing” politicking only works so long as those of us doing the actual voting permit it to, as many seem inclined. All for the greater good, of course.
Apart from that, you’re right: No difference.
So is it true, as Skippy’s piece said, that the kids attended private school on scholarship, the new SUV was a gift from friends (since the accident had left the kids too scared to ride in a car) and as a small-business owner, Halsey couldn’t find affordable insurance, particularly given the kids’ pre-existing conditions and ongoing medical needs? Because if so, it would go to show that just like the crap dug up on Joe Plumber might well be of limited truthfulness and relevance, so too the crap on the Halseys. Which I think might make both sides look a little more alike.
And although initially I tended to agree that it’s a very different ballgame to put your kid out there to make your political/policy point, on reflection, I realized that there was a high probability that I, myself, would do it. If I had what I felt was a very legitimate point to make around issues relating to children with disabilities (my pet passion). Then again, you are stupid to do if your circusmtances aren’t going to stand up to scrutiny. You just make your ’cause’ look bad.
In this cae, I think it boils down to a matter of the pot only being able to legitimately call the kettle only slightly blacker. I will never forget the local case of a woman who dared speak as an advocate for persons reciving social assistance and criticizing the relevant Minister. It wasn’t long before the Minister responded that no one should listen to her. After all, the Department’s file on her showed that she didn’t even know who the father of her child was (named as unknown on the child’s birth certificate). Uh huh, that was relevant.
It’s a game, fight’s on, last man who remains standing after getting kneecapped and kicked in the groin 20 times wins.
Said the pseudonymous commenter. I afraid I can’t lend your views any credence until I know your tax history, unseal and release your divorce records, and sift through your trash can. Because, you see, until I can invent a motive for what you have said, it means nothing.
Dude also lived in a $500k house, had $200k worth of other real property and his Princeton educated papa babied his ’56 T-Bird for antique car shows.
Dad decided that getting a real job with health care was beneath him. Or, as a self-employed guy, paying himself health care benefits. Which, as Steyn points out, would have cost him roughly $700 per year.
You know, real grown-ups – people willing to bring four kids into the world – have a responsibility to their families, Mich. I think it’s brutally unfair that the scions of wealthy Princeton grads are allowed to make stupid choices and then throw the consequences of those choices into the faces of the rest of us when things go south. God knows there are things I’d rather be doing than huddling in a cubicle polishing PowerPoint presentations into my golden years.
Lots of ‘em. But then again, I’m one of those “personal responsibility” type guys. Maybe it’ll look good on my headstone.
Although I totally agree with your main premise, Lex, I really don’t know which/what is true here.
1) Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year.
2) His sister Gemma attends another private school to help her with the brain injuries that occurred due to her accident. The school costs $23,000 a year, but the state pays the entire cost.
3) They bought their “lavish house” sixteen years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less than safe.
4) Last year, the Frosts made $45,000 combined. Over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.
Which maybe just goes to show how partisan dirt-digging (from either side of the political spectrum) only leads to a smelly pile of crap at the end of the day.
Which was, I suppose, my main point. As in pot meet kettle. Now why don’t both of you run along and find something actually useful to do? Sheesh …
one-off emotional appeals rather than rigorous analysis
Don’t like the 12 year old Democrat analogy? Schiavo. Elian. Cleland. etc.
Both sides keep character assassination and the Ad Hominem in their unsnapped holsters, safety off.
When you’re not winning on points, it’s often a useful tactic to change the subject. I might have chosen a different pantheon of liberal saints if it were up to me, though.
Terri Schiavo – who among us is not now happy that she is dead? After all, it allowed her husband to finally collect on the life insurance and “get on with his life.” And if her parents were willing, out of their less interested, less conditional love, to pay for her continued care in hope for a miracle, what is that to us? She’s dead now, and we should all be very, very happy. Apart from her parents of course. (BTW, for future reference? Anyone who wants to pull the plug on my little girl in order to get her life insurance had better make sure his own is paid up.)
And who among us did not feel a frisson of national pride at the image of brave, black helmeted and body armored federal agents seizing a terrified boy from his family at gunpoint in the middle of the night to return him to the loving embrace of his father, and Communist Cuba? Compared to Waco, it was the very model of restraint.
Finally, I think that the Cleland thing was shoddily done. But once again, Cleland was a “man in the arena”, not a US citizen asking a question of a presidential candidate.
If your point is that a working class guy had better have a pristine personal record before daring to ask a presidential candidate a question on his own porch, I don’t know that we’ll have many American citizens daring to ask questions of their betters.
Or is that the point?
Canned food and ammo, guys, canned food and ammo. Stock up!
Hell, I think I’m borderline-autistic, and I can see the crunch coming.
Owhell, The Republic had a good run….
This has been a healthy discussion. Will we all agree? The simple answer is No, we’re Americans.
@Mongo #39, Jesus at times sent those he healed back to their doctors or the temple for verification. This was a benefit to the patient, community and Jesus’ own message. This is what the doctor friend was referencing to in his comment. I admit, I made a poor word choice.
@Michelle #52, at the end of your first paragraph, you make a comment with a great deal of historical insight. You are talking about the whole “Joe, the Plumber” issue. You say, “Which I think might make both sides look a little more alike.” My personal opinion, I believe both parties do the same nonsense and claim the opposition is wrong to do the same things they did years ago. I guess, they believe all the old pharts are gone, WRONG!
Hey Lex, how long am I gonna be stuck in moderation here?
If your point is…
No that is not my point, as per my first post.
As an aside, I met Todd Palin today at the Penn State game. He was pressing the flesh, so it was the quick “howdy”. Still, very cool. I think a daughter may have been with him.
The silly season….
The facts of the discussion are a lot different than you will ever read here, here, or on Fox News….
This, folks, is the reason I won’t run for public office. I don’t have skeletons in my closet, I’ve a spare bedroom so full of skeletons it looks like a skeleton convention in there. I have demons!
I think I could do the job. I’d gladly take the pay cut to do it. No way in hell I’m subjecting myself and my family to this mob of hit-men.
You get the government you ask for and deserve. Unfortunately, we’ve eliminated the government that has done anything other than seek office.
I am not certain that this improves us at all.
– Max
@MaxDamage, Good insight, if people don’t want the attention, stay out of the spotlight. If Joe, the Plumber had a question for Obama, he should have found a discrete way of asking it, without making it a media event. But, by doing things the way he did, he gave the media, in essence, a license, in their minds, to follow this present course of action. If Joe wanted to be alone in his yard and Obama walked on to his property, he could have simply said, “No thank you.” If Obama continued, Obama would have been the one in the bad light.
Except that a citizen should be able to ask a candidate a question.
Isn’t that at least theoretically one of the reasons why a candidate goes door to door? And as a citizen with an obligation to vote responsibly, what better way than to get an answer to your question directly from the candidate, himnself, and not filtered through anyone else?
Nope, should be a good thing. Would be a good thing if all the stupidity was left out of it.
Is the issue that JTP asked a question-or that a great number of people did not like the answer; including JTP?
Seems to me, JTP got to ask his question, has gotten to expound on it since-and because of the fury surrounding the answer (one really needs to look at the entire conversation)-he has become a lightning rod of sorts.
On the plus side though-if he was not going to make 250,000 as a plumber, he will more than make up for it during his 15 minutes of fame. I’ll bet he has more business now than he did a week ago.
If Joe, the Plumber had a question for Obama, he should have found a discrete way of asking it, without making it a media event.
What?? This isn’t John Kerry bringing a movie camera to Vietnam to capture his exploits. This is a guy that was approached offered the rare chance to ask Obama an unscripted question. If you want to blame anyone, blame Obama’s handlers for letting him roam the streets unattended.
Tell me, how does a guy approached by a presidential candidate and at least one running video camera arrange for a discrete meeting?
And why, for that matter, does the nature of this question require discreteness? It was a simple policy question, on the every citizen in this country has a right to ask. Most of us just never get the opportunity.
Sure, he could have acted like a subservient lackey said “No thank you.” I guess he somehow was able to read what a damaging answer it could be in Obama’s deep, beautiful, all-knowing eyes and decide to stick in the knife. Just to create a media event. Mebbe it would be good for bussines. Fast thinker, Joe, for being “just a plumber.”
Still, he could have said it. But would Obama have looked bad for it? To whom? Do you really believe both that Obama has never faced another hostile voter and that the media have never taped such an encounter ? Do you really believe that story would ever have seen the light of day?
Just had a couple of canvassers out at the house, was in the front yard with the kids are they were getting ready to go home. They walked up, the good boomers they were, and I asked, “What can I do for you?”. Got the Obama spiel, or the start of it, saying, ” You are SO at the wrong house! I’ve been a Republican since I had long hair and smoked dope, and voted for Tricky Dick Nixon”.
They scurried off with bright little scares smiles.
Michelle #65, in a perfect world, we should be able to ask the candidate a question, WITHOUT THE MEDIA! I agree, every time we go to the candidate directly, it is better.
I hope it makes us a more informed electorate and not a more frustrated electorate.
I hope you don’t mind, but I would like to paraphrase your last sentence with some additions. You have put to words thoughts, I have, but could not find the right words to express.
Republicans AND Democrats, it would be a GREAT thing if all the stupidity was left out of it.
Michelle, sadly, as you well know, this is not a perfect world.
THANK YOU, Grumpy
Grumpy -
How the hell does asking a question of a politician, with media entourage, who approaches me give them the license to root around in my affairs? Why should I have to find a discrete way of asking him a straightforward question without making it a media event? Proles are not allowed to ask questions of The One if the answer reveals His true beliefs?
Seriously, what color is the sky on your planet?
And had Joe said “No thanks,” you can be sure our betters in the media would have portrayed him in a bad light: a bitter gun-n-Bible clinging, cousin humping racist.
Pray that he doesn’t ask me a question
I rest my case to the jury, history itself, the only true jury.
Because as Andrew Sullivan pointed out-if you live by the anecdote, you might want to be prepared to die by it.
Jim, I could talk myself blue in the face trying to clear you, but absent malice-you can’t win.
Which is what the crux of this argument is-was the press reporting done with malice or not? As I have said before-lots of lawyers now at his beck and call to check that out.
Not certain I see it that way, Grumpy. If somebody walks into my yard with a camera in tow, they’ve initiated hostilities. They’ve stepped onto my private property and started recording my private life for distribution to the masses.
I can’t help but think if they want me to play their game they should offer money or, perhaps, the ambassador position to Monico. Because, absent such an agreement, I’m likely to just speak my mind rather than the script. Yes, I can be bought, just not by anybody or for nothing.
And that no-contract un-scripted interview doesn’t seem to work so well. Might make A Candidate appear a socialist in an isolated moment. Surely not the goal.
– Max
Joe’s real offense against the liberal worldview is that his aspirations rise above his caste.