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	<title>Comments on: The Culture War</title>
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	<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/11/25/the-culture-war/</link>
	<description>The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy!</description>
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		<title>By: Curtis</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/11/25/the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-286318</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 01:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=6386#comment-286318</guid>
		<description>Max, 
You entirely miss my point.  The law compelled them to sell something they found/find unconscionable.   The law has been doing this sort of thing for a long long time.  Here&#039;s a primer on the law:
If we decide to draft you and send to your death at the age of 18, that&#039;s the law and you must obey even if your religious principles forbid killing.
If you work at a drug store you must sell drugs that will promptly lead to the death of the unborn even if you find that immoral.
The law finds that if you&#039;re 18 years of age you are not mature enough to make the decision to drink alcohol and therefore the law forbids you that practice.
The law finds that if you are 13 and pregnant you have the right to make a decision to kill somebody else without your parent&#039;s advice or consent but as a student you cannot take so much as an aspirin with you to school since that implies that you have such a low moral character that you must be a drug abuser or pusher.

You widdled something about the dark ages but I prefer a law to be something that was arrived at through a process of moral judgment and conscientious consideration.  Did you miss that bit earlier about the fact that nobody in S. Dakota was sufficiently interested in involving themselves in the medical extermination of babies that those that do find that a good practice have to fly in outside doctors to perform the procedure? Try to focus on the underlying ethics there.  They do not offer or extend that &quot;service&quot; to their citizens but obey a law that says that such services must be available and don&#039;t prohibit the practice of this little service.  And so we return to my point.  If you want it and I won&#039;t sell it or do it then take your pregnant ass elsewhere and find somebody who will.  How hard is that?

Wrap your mind around this:  if the State can compel you to perform an abhorrent act such as abortion, how long before the State compels you to undergo an abortion?  

This is my last post on this subject since those who disagree on this subject tend to make other people just wish that they&#039;d go away and die somewhere quietly.  Preferably, someplace without electricity or an internet connection and would please stop bugging them on the topic.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max,<br />
You entirely miss my point.  The law compelled them to sell something they found/find unconscionable.   The law has been doing this sort of thing for a long long time.  Here&#8217;s a primer on the law:<br />
If we decide to draft you and send to your death at the age of 18, that&#8217;s the law and you must obey even if your religious principles forbid killing.<br />
If you work at a drug store you must sell drugs that will promptly lead to the death of the unborn even if you find that immoral.<br />
The law finds that if you&#8217;re 18 years of age you are not mature enough to make the decision to drink alcohol and therefore the law forbids you that practice.<br />
The law finds that if you are 13 and pregnant you have the right to make a decision to kill somebody else without your parent&#8217;s advice or consent but as a student you cannot take so much as an aspirin with you to school since that implies that you have such a low moral character that you must be a drug abuser or pusher.</p>
<p>You widdled something about the dark ages but I prefer a law to be something that was arrived at through a process of moral judgment and conscientious consideration.  Did you miss that bit earlier about the fact that nobody in S. Dakota was sufficiently interested in involving themselves in the medical extermination of babies that those that do find that a good practice have to fly in outside doctors to perform the procedure? Try to focus on the underlying ethics there.  They do not offer or extend that &#8220;service&#8221; to their citizens but obey a law that says that such services must be available and don&#8217;t prohibit the practice of this little service.  And so we return to my point.  If you want it and I won&#8217;t sell it or do it then take your pregnant ass elsewhere and find somebody who will.  How hard is that?</p>
<p>Wrap your mind around this:  if the State can compel you to perform an abhorrent act such as abortion, how long before the State compels you to undergo an abortion?  </p>
<p>This is my last post on this subject since those who disagree on this subject tend to make other people just wish that they&#8217;d go away and die somewhere quietly.  Preferably, someplace without electricity or an internet connection and would please stop bugging them on the topic.  <img src='http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MaxDamage</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/11/25/the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-285924</link>
		<dc:creator>MaxDamage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 06:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=6386#comment-285924</guid>
		<description>Curtis, you miss my point.  In your case the pharmacy they work at stock these drugs, ergo the pharmacists who work there would be required to dispense them the same way a Muslim working at Donut Land would be required to hand out lard-fried glazed donuts.  Irrespective of the moral framework of the employee, if the employer has an item for sale the employee should either sell it, have a co-worker sell it (alcohol-free check-out at Wall Mart for example, which would be entirely at the mangement&#039;s discretion), or choose another job.  This isn&#039;t the case for the sole practitioner.

Don&#039;t forget, the job is not the employee&#039;s.  The job is at the pleasure of the employer.  Employees who cannot do that job need not apply.  Self-employed, such as doctors who have their own practice and choose their cases, have some leeway.

Granted, you could choose a dentist to perform heart surgery and if government was filling the costs you could stipulate he couldn&#039;t refuse your bypass operation and then take money for somebody else&#039;s  root canal, but isn&#039;t that sort of idiotic?

Oh, wait.  I was talking about government.

In the case of health care, we&#039;ve a slightly different scenario where *my* tax dollars go to a private physician.  I want to be treated by said private physician, because he does good needlework and by goodness I just like the cut of the man&#039;s jib.  So I&#039;m sold on this guy, I want him to do whatever medical thing I need.

Government saying he can&#039;t get paid for services rendered to me, because he refuses to render others services and instead makes a referral, is wrong.  Smacks of tyrrany.  Makes one wonder why  we bother with insurance now and single-payer later on if somebody in a suit is going to decide who we can see and what they can do.

My solution to all this is that every time an insurance claim is denied, every time a VA benefit is denied, every time a doctor is told they must do something or cannot do something, the patient has a right to a meeting.

The doctor, the patient, and the insurance or government person get to meet for 15 minutes.  Personally.

Shirts off.  No weapons.  First two to walk out win.

If we&#039;re going to institute the divine right of kings to decide our lives, at least with respect to our private dealings with professionals who can help or hinder our health, to my mind the traditional trial by combat seems appropriate.

For indeed, we&#039;ll be back to the Dark Ages.

   - Max</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curtis, you miss my point.  In your case the pharmacy they work at stock these drugs, ergo the pharmacists who work there would be required to dispense them the same way a Muslim working at Donut Land would be required to hand out lard-fried glazed donuts.  Irrespective of the moral framework of the employee, if the employer has an item for sale the employee should either sell it, have a co-worker sell it (alcohol-free check-out at Wall Mart for example, which would be entirely at the mangement&#8217;s discretion), or choose another job.  This isn&#8217;t the case for the sole practitioner.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget, the job is not the employee&#8217;s.  The job is at the pleasure of the employer.  Employees who cannot do that job need not apply.  Self-employed, such as doctors who have their own practice and choose their cases, have some leeway.</p>
<p>Granted, you could choose a dentist to perform heart surgery and if government was filling the costs you could stipulate he couldn&#8217;t refuse your bypass operation and then take money for somebody else&#8217;s  root canal, but isn&#8217;t that sort of idiotic?</p>
<p>Oh, wait.  I was talking about government.</p>
<p>In the case of health care, we&#8217;ve a slightly different scenario where *my* tax dollars go to a private physician.  I want to be treated by said private physician, because he does good needlework and by goodness I just like the cut of the man&#8217;s jib.  So I&#8217;m sold on this guy, I want him to do whatever medical thing I need.</p>
<p>Government saying he can&#8217;t get paid for services rendered to me, because he refuses to render others services and instead makes a referral, is wrong.  Smacks of tyrrany.  Makes one wonder why  we bother with insurance now and single-payer later on if somebody in a suit is going to decide who we can see and what they can do.</p>
<p>My solution to all this is that every time an insurance claim is denied, every time a VA benefit is denied, every time a doctor is told they must do something or cannot do something, the patient has a right to a meeting.</p>
<p>The doctor, the patient, and the insurance or government person get to meet for 15 minutes.  Personally.</p>
<p>Shirts off.  No weapons.  First two to walk out win.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re going to institute the divine right of kings to decide our lives, at least with respect to our private dealings with professionals who can help or hinder our health, to my mind the traditional trial by combat seems appropriate.</p>
<p>For indeed, we&#8217;ll be back to the Dark Ages.</p>
<p>   &#8211; Max</p>
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		<title>By: DL Sly</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/11/25/the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-285840</link>
		<dc:creator>DL Sly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 02:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=6386#comment-285840</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m curious, if FOCA tosses current laws requiring parent notification, does that also toss the requirement of parent to pay for a proceedure for which they had no knowledge?  Who signs the consent form for the medical proceedure?  Until the age of 18, only a parent or guardian can do that.  Who signs the financial responsibility form?  The parents, having not been informed, had no knowledge, so they obviously were not present to give their legally binding consent authorizing the insurance to pay for said services.  So, who pays?  And what happens if something goes wrong during the abortion?  Is the abortion clinic then required to notify the parents?  Or are they to find out sometime *later* that their daughter has been seriously injured or has died during a proceedure they didn&#039;t even know about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious, if FOCA tosses current laws requiring parent notification, does that also toss the requirement of parent to pay for a proceedure for which they had no knowledge?  Who signs the consent form for the medical proceedure?  Until the age of 18, only a parent or guardian can do that.  Who signs the financial responsibility form?  The parents, having not been informed, had no knowledge, so they obviously were not present to give their legally binding consent authorizing the insurance to pay for said services.  So, who pays?  And what happens if something goes wrong during the abortion?  Is the abortion clinic then required to notify the parents?  Or are they to find out sometime *later* that their daughter has been seriously injured or has died during a proceedure they didn&#8217;t even know about?</p>
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		<title>By: Curtis</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/11/25/the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-285822</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=6386#comment-285822</guid>
		<description>So, Byron,
 
Once is a tragedy, twice is circumstance and the third time leads one to think that there&#039;s some sort of fetish involved... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Byron,</p>
<p>Once is a tragedy, twice is circumstance and the third time leads one to think that there&#8217;s some sort of fetish involved&#8230; <img src='http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Byron Audler</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/11/25/the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-285807</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron Audler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=6386#comment-285807</guid>
		<description>Lex, I&#039;ll never forget the first time I was sent to the Dean of Boys office for the first time (shortly after we moved to J&#039;ville when I started 8th grade). He told me to bend over, I was going to meet the board of education. I did, he swung, and I smiled. He wanted to know what was so funny. I told him, &quot;I&#039;ve had swats from a 95 pd Irish nun that hurt worse than that&quot;. Got another one, this time all I did was sigh. Got another one :) 

Ever so glad I didn&#039;t get to attend Jesuit High in NOLA (but wish I did, you get a hell of an education from Jesuits!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lex, I&#8217;ll never forget the first time I was sent to the Dean of Boys office for the first time (shortly after we moved to J&#8217;ville when I started 8th grade). He told me to bend over, I was going to meet the board of education. I did, he swung, and I smiled. He wanted to know what was so funny. I told him, &#8220;I&#8217;ve had swats from a 95 pd Irish nun that hurt worse than that&#8221;. Got another one, this time all I did was sigh. Got another one <img src='http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Ever so glad I didn&#8217;t get to attend Jesuit High in NOLA (but wish I did, you get a hell of an education from Jesuits!)</p>
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		<title>By: lex</title>
		<link>http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/11/25/the-culture-war/comment-page-1/#comment-285784</link>
		<dc:creator>lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=6386#comment-285784</guid>
		<description>Byron, my high school was run by the Christian Brothers, good teachers (and vintners!) who had quick ways of dealing with obstreperous school boys. I learned a lot at St. Johns. Not all of it was in the classroom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Byron, my high school was run by the Christian Brothers, good teachers (and vintners!) who had quick ways of dealing with obstreperous school boys. I learned a lot at St. Johns. Not all of it was in the classroom.</p>
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