The US 5th Fleet commander in Bahrain is opposed to cracking piratical skulls ashore:
Vice-Admiral Bill Gortney said that such a policy would be hampered by the difficulties of identifying the pirates and the risks of harming civilians.
He suggested shipping companies should instead employ armed security guards to protect their vessels from hijackings.
Adm Gortney was speaking on the first day of a conference on Gulf security.
US Defence Secretary Robert Gates later told delegates that the US would consider attacking the land bases of pirates in Somalia only once it had better intelligence.
He said that shipping companies had to take initial safety measures, including speeding up when they see pirates approach and pulling up their ladders, AP reported.
He’s quite right, even if such temperance would have been unfamiliar to the the Lieutenant Gortney of my acquaintance.
My own modest proposal is still on the table, however.
My table.
Which is probably (one of the reasons) why Shortney’s an admiral, and I’m a retiree.
Update: Busy bee -
Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai took his first tour of a U.S. aircraft carrier Thursday in the Gulf of Oman to understand U.S. Navy overseas operations, the Navy said Friday.
Video from the Department of Defense showed Karzai smiling as he got off a plane on the Nimitz-class USS Theodore Roosevelt on Thursday afternoon. He was formally welcomed to the ship by naval officers’ salutes and music.
Vice Adm. Bill Gortney, head of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command, gave Karzai a tour of the ship, showing him the aircraft hangers and the flight deck.
Karzai also chatted with a few sailors.
The article does not go on to say whether the Afghanistan president asked for a copy of the latest Foc’s'l Follies videos…
Developing
As I recall you voluntarily removed yourself from that path, a fact you admitted before you were willing to admit you had a girls name, let alone to the great unwashed of the blogosphere
I would like to know who some of the commenters from the older post though….
Edit: That reminds me actually, once upon a time a young girl was sent to rope horses or some such, I believe copies of Rhythms ( prick of a word to spell really) were involved, how is that going?
It’s only common sense that the Admiral is proposing. I really don’t see all the fuss against having armed guards and all. It is the open seas, you do have to protect yourself. And it would certainly be cheaper than paying the ransom.
I think it’s almost ridiculous to have unarmed guards like the recently highjacked ship did. Well, they were armed with “non lethal means”. A lot of good it did them, they abandoned ship faster than rats.
I recently was made aware of this blog and, like Lex, hail from the Old Dominion even as I reside in Texas now.
I never served – was too stupid to understand the value even as I had brief consideration of going ROTC at VA Tech with goal of flying for the AF way back when.
I just want to say, and I don’t want this to sound corny even though it might seem that way. Reading all these stories and comments from you current and formal officers and sometimes gentlemen makes me proud to be an American and grateful, even humbled, by your service.
Thank you.
Having said all that I can tell from his posts while Lex isn’t Admiral material. I’ve met a few in my day and, at least in today’s world, it seems most Flags are either so good at dispensing PC BS or have been so constrained by the current environment that its a wonder we can even fight, let alone win. After all Patton was a LTC I believe until Marshall saw the Big One coming and cleaned out the polo players – unless the polo players really knew how to fight.
But I’m a cvilian and and, sadly, admit to not knowing what I’m talking about when it comes to matters miltary.
But I recognize sacrifice, honor, duty when I see at and at least want to take this opportunity to express my gratitude.
I’m sure the bad guys said they would just shoot the guards and let the ship go its merry way. Anyone that hires guards, but won’t arm them is foolish.
In the long run, we either quarantine Somalia, or we destroy it. The result may be the same for the civvies that live their and try to mind their own business, but peer pressure does have some affect at times.
We should not be the people that lead any effort at destruction. The countries whose flag the ships bear should be the countries that send people in. Too bad for those ships bearing flags of “convenience.”
That said, if they take a US flagged vessel, demand ransom, which we refuse as a matter of principle, we should go in and slag the place if the kill any of the crew. That is one instance that I would not agree with the good Admiral.
Probably the main reason you are retired and he is an Admiral is he can play the political game (all GOFOs are politicians) and you weren’t interested. If GOFOs weren’t politicians the forecastle follies would have been a non-issue.
Captain Lex, sir … Your “modest proposal” [Jonathan Swift would have really liked you] struck a chord in my memory. Back in the late 1980s, my husband and I, after a spirited discussion of the dark clouds hovering over the Middle East, decided that the best thing for the rest of the world to do, would be to build a 1/2 mile high wall around the entire place [no door] and let the warring factions fight out whether they wanted to enter the 20th century or not. Whoever won, we would deal with. Problem solved. I still think it would have been the best, least bloody solution. But then, I’m a dreamer, not an engineer. Or a politician.
Marianne
I would think that derailing the Money Train would have the most immediate effect.
Lex and friends … Just had another idea… if the U.S. and other sea powers affected by this piracy [and most of the Western nations are] would just issue “letters of marque” to all commercial shipping, they could then carry arms and armed protectors as a matter of course. After the first few encounters, this should slow down or stop entirely these jumped-up pirates in their tracks.
It’s worked before, hasn’t it?
Marianne
T6, block out a couple of hours and read Lex’s “Tales of the Sea Service” and “Rythms”. You’ll find out why the rest of us are completely addicted to Lex
I’m absolutely against our leading anything on the ground. I agree with the Admiral on this. Let the rest of the world be the police. They have issues, let them solve it instead of coming to us.
As Quartermaster said, they attack an American ship, so be it. All gloves off and as I’ve stated earlier, heads on pikes and all that.
Until then, I prefer us be an island on this. They should let the flippin’ UN come in and solve their pirating problems. Phht.
Claudio said: “It’s only common sense that the Admiral is proposing. I really don’t see all the fuss against having armed guards and all. It is the open seas, you do have to protect yourself. And it would certainly be cheaper than paying the ransom.”
It is not necessarily cheaper.
For the longest time, it has actually been cheaper for companies to pay ransom rather than pay armed security personnel. I’m not interested in self-righteous “morality”, it’s an economic fact. It was actually cheaper even than having their own sailors carry their own arsenals.
That may not be true now.
Then again, it probably IS still true for most shipping lines on most, if not all, shipping routes (even in the gulf of Aden).
Costs are not limited to buying guns and equipment or providing training. Most of this is a direct cost; it’s the indirect costs that are a real killer. Accountants call it “overhead” (which, depending on your profession, can exceed 50% of total cost).
One example of an indirect cost?
Background checks.
Another?
How many resources have to be spent to comply with regulations of Port Ops and law-enforcement (assuming you’ve spent enough resources and bribes to convince their politicians to allow entry). Across how many countries? Across how many LOCAL jurisdictions within those countries? Paperwork? Delays? The entire bureaucracy would be a boondoggle. You’d have to hire an army of paper-pushers to handle it. More cost.
And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
The Admiral is not especially on my list of people which I like right now (along with the whole rest of the NAVCENT staff especially the OSO and admin and the bean counters) .
In my opinion this staff is completely FU and desire their reserve breathern to come and play but only when it is convenient for them and if the admiral decides to spend the money on something else then your just SOL.
“Fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me twice. Shame on me. Fool me three times? Screw you Im going to Europe!
How ’bout this for a cost: what if the pirates were ignored, the ships scuttled, and the ensuing environmental mess that would be in it? Personally, I think that that cost would surpass any other cost, if you dump a couple of hundred thousand barrels of crude into the sea. I’m no tree hugger, but, the cost of battling the court of public opinion over the mess could surpass that of a couple of years of armed guardianship. It’s like insurance, you hope you don’t need it, but you’d better have it when the fecal matter is flying.
Why not just hire on Blackwater, or those of their kind to provide the armed support? I guess I just don’t quite get why that ain’t an option. Not sure I buy off on the whole cost thing being prohibitive to that solution. Just pass those cost’s on as the price of doing business… kinda like what they do to us now at the gas pumps.
Oh yeah, and kill some of those f%$#ers.
Rykehaven is on the money here. In New Orleans the transit companies with the contracts handling dock movement give instructions to their hired security guards to turn a blind eye to a certain amount of pilferage by the longshoremen from break-bulk cargo so as not tick off the sticky fingered crowd enough to cause them to strike or create a temp protest work stoppage, as such would cost them far more than their pilferage losses. Same with security fencing. N.O. used to have an “open wharf” system. It drove the insurance companies nuts, which were always pressing the Dock Board to go to a closed system. But the Dock Board resisted because of upfront costs vs
hypothetical long-term savings. (And they were right. A customs officer told me one day that the theft rate, for Houston, which had closed wharfs, was no different than N.Os. “Just forces ‘em
to be more creative,” he said.) Only when N.O suckered the Feds with mainly Fed $ into building “Flood-walls” that doubled as security fences did NO shift to a closed wharf system replete with checkpoints, etc. Moral?
It ALWAYS boils down to the bucks.
If I’m not mistaken, we still have a large stock of “dumb” Mark 80 series bombs. Hang them on the BUFFs, BONEs and Caspers and start at the coast and work 50 miles inland until nothing moves.
Rinse, repeat (if necessary). Free fire zone after.
And let the UN clean up the mess. (Hehehehe – snort – hehehe). Yeah – right.
Hell – we can even pull a Fallujah and give them a grace period to get the grapp out of Dodge before we start.
Byron, Oh So True!
While I’ve had the pleasure of serving for four years (and perhaps time does indeed make the memories fonder), I tip my hat in gratitude to those who have served in combat and/or made a career in the military.
“nuke the site from orbit–only way to be sure”
*just sprayed coffee all over my keyboard
“grapp”…I just knew there had to be another Ringo-ite around here
Ships sitting idle for days cost an enormous amount of money, not only in terms of salaries, fuel, and upkeep (yes, engines need to run various necessities like alarms and pumps and fire systems), but also in charter penalties. The majority of cargo’s are shipped under a charter, which states the cargo has to arrive by a given date, or else penalties ensue. The only way the ransom is cheaper than losing the ship or fighting for it is insurance.
My idea is to put an LHA with Cobra’s and Harrier’s, an LHD with LCACs, a couple of FFGs, and shuttle unrep from the PG. Stand the ships off shore, use the helos and Harriers for recon and back up, use the LCACs and RHIBs for boarding , sprinkle with camo’d Marines, and stand the whole lot smack in the middle of the zone. Since pirates operate under a black flag, cap ‘em, sink ‘em, forget ‘em. Maybe even follow a few ashore, do a bit of tag and bag.
Oh, my gosh, I forgot! All those things would require a set of BALLS! Forget what I said, please.
DangerousDan, since when did NAVCENT or C5F exist for the pleasure of the drilling reservist to draw a paycheck? If I am reading what you are saying correctly are you disgruntled because your 2 weeks of AT wont be tax free. Last I checked the Navy Reserve Component existed for one reason and one reason only: T0 AUGMENT AND SUPPORT the Active Duty Component. If Shortney or any other COM decides they don’t need the reserves to fulfill his/her mission then so be it.
Now, to more important things. Who’s got the follies video? I want to send copy to RDML Pandolfe and see if he’ll autograph it.
I dunno, Byron. You should check out Tam’s place and “Oh, John Ringo, NO!”,
Or, “Hi, little girl, have you ever met a Kildar?”
Googling will find the reference.
The shipping companies need to hire Ma Duce to tackle this problem. She gets right to the point.
JTG, saw that few months ago…almost got the T shirt
and I’m semi-proud to say, I finally got my Red Shirt. Don’t know if I’m a bad guy, good guy, wallpaper, or even if I make it more than once, but hey, Red Shirt is Red Shirt! Now, if John finagles more of them, THAT’S a T shirt I’ll buy for sure!
(and seriously hoping the current deep freeze will inspire the Muse)
Rykehaven,
If I read you correctly then I agree that having a line place armed guards on all their routes would be cost prohibitive. However, when was the last time that piracy was practices in Gibraltar, Mesina, Bosphorus, etc. I’d say the main areas of concern seem to be HOA and Malacca. Granted there are other areas but not as HOT.
Although I like Byrons suggestion, or even Q-ships, what I had in mind is a business providing security for ships transiting in HOA. Ships traveling East to West would have a Security det helicoptered in from Oman, South/North from Kenya, West East, Egypt or Djibouti, and then drop off after exiting the hot area after about 3 days. Would think it’s a business opportunity, and enough enterprising souls to smooth the wheels with the respective govts.
The other option is to wait for UN to act, or use sound/light/etc non lethal means. And we see how well that’s worked out. Bet the insurance rates would be a little lower too.
Claudio:
Sound wpns? Hell, the JCS won’t even allow them in a real combat zone even as the on-scene cmdrs are pleading for the things, if what I read is the straight skinny. So the ONLY way their going to the Somali Coastal waters seem to me to be if pvt industry clones a few and the shippers themselves use the damned things.
Q-Ships, convoys with escort?
Perhaps Somalia is another niche market for Blackwater to provide teams of heavily armed professionals to join ships for the dangerous transit then helicopter to the next for the same transit. Kinda like a nautical version of the Pinkerton’s in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
What’s Somali for “Who are those guys?”
Byron,
I was thinking an LSD, 2-3 Cobras and if only the 5-6 PHM’s from yesteryear. What a JO opportunity!
Yet another problem that someone thinks can be solved, but it just plain isn’t. Which I think Gortney recognizes. Piracy will largely end very shortly–because the sea state will soon make it impossible. Everyone will forget about it after a few months, and when it begins again, as it has for a millenia or so, the wailing and gnashing of teeth resumes. Gortney also has taken C5F largely out of the MIO business, which annoyed merchants to no end, gained little in the way of little, and zero in the way of terrorists at sea. Seems an easy call to make after five years.
Merchant sailors aren’t going to be armed. Not only will the master not risk the mayhem, but seamen who shoot at pirates become dead seamen once the pirates secure the boat, which they will. The UCP change isn’t making this easier, since ashore the pirates are now in AFRICOM, but 12 miles out they’re in CENTCOM. Since Sixth Fleet is AFRICOM’s fleet, we’re up to our ears these days trying to solve piracy in NAVCENT/C5F waters.
Twixt just us, a few words to a certain few men in Puntland, the kind we used to have the means to quietly deliver, and I’d lay better than even odds that most of the piracy could be curtailed, at least long enough that everyone else can untwist their knickers over the matter.
Or we can just wall the whole place off.