The Dutch, that most tolerant of European peoples, have at last reached the limits of their tolerance. The change has come from within the Dutch Labor Party – the country’s biggest left-wing political grouping and the party holding the “integration” portfolio in government:
“The mistake we can never repeat is stifling criticism of cultures and religions for reasons of tolerance.”
Government and politicians had too long failed to acknowledge the feelings of “loss and estrangement” felt by Dutch society facing parallel communities that disregard its language, laws and customs.
Newcomers, according to Ploumen, must avoid “self-designated victimization.”
She asserted, “the grip of the homeland has to disappear” for these immigrants who, news reports indicate, also retain their original nationality at a rate of about 80 percent once becoming Dutch citizens.
Instead of reflexively offering tolerance with the expectation that things would work out in the long run, she said, the government strategy should be “bringing our values into confrontation with people who think otherwise.”
Labor clearly no longer thinks that newcomers can be coddled into joining Dutch society. It remains to be seen whether they can be confronted into becoming more Dutch, and – in the end – more tolerant.
Indeed…
I am afraid it is too late for the Dutch and Europe in general…
Olga, you have a point. I just pray that Holland doesn’t act (again) as they did twice with Germany.
Lex sir, and fellow readers, on the point of “tolerance” I have an interesting story (stateside) regarding a similar topic, albeit regarding the treatment of criminals:
Remember the “Jenna Six?”
For Christmas I received a copy of Mark Steyn’s “America Alone”. Maybe the Dutch are not doomed quite yet?
Anyone who has not seen the book or read it, it’s a very good read, both funny and well written….it’s been out about 2 years now. I’m behind the times.
STEVEC
Just hit the site “Gates of Vienna” everyday and you will be kept well up to speed.
Let’s hope this realization by the left in the Netherlands is the beginning of a much broader trend in Western thought.
Dovetails nicely with my current reading of “The New Case Against Immigration: Both Legal and Illegal “
People have long known that Holland was living in a fools paradise. What can you say about a country with a unionized military?
The question that begs asking is have they passed the tipping point, and are they willing to expel people that will not assimilate? If the answer is no to the first and no to the second, then they will reach a tipping point and it will be too late. If the answers are no, yes, then they can win. But will they do what is required? As we used to say in Krautland “das ist der frage.” I hope they have the strength to win, but the jury is out. Multi-cult trash is seductive to the left, and they will fall hard rather than give it up.
One of the “victims” will stick a knife into Plouman while she bicycles to work, and that will be the end of that.
It is much too late for Europe. They have lived in lotus land under the protection of the reviled America too long.
I’ts too late for Europe.
Too late for what, exactly?
Americans seem fond of predicting Europe’s coming doom, but I’ve yet to understand just what kind of trouble you think the Euro’s are in for. Since we’re discussing the topic, perhaps one of the other commentators could enlighten me.
Saffer, … requested words of elightenment to follow:
I think it’s fair to say that a genuine concern for the continued survival of our Euro/ Old World cultural heritage… rampant self-destructive multi-culturalism… along with a large dose of scheundenfraude, justified or not, accounts for most of the anti-Euro sentiment around here ….turnabout, after all, is fair play…strongly suggest that in the future you avoid, as the Brits are fond of saying, getting your knickers all in a bunch about it… Best
Ja, das ist die Frage.
Before addressing the issue, I would however like to blame America first. We would not have these issues, if you had not taught us the positive values of immigration and personal freedom.
Nobody likes to have his hands cuts of, being lashed or mutilated, or else. And any thought-police is soon more despised than the most obscene trash. Just take a look at the DVD and video game shelves in any large European mega-store, no matter if it is located in a city with a known minority of radical Muslim youth or Neonazi natives.
I deliberately lumped them together, because they have one remarkable thing in common: they are boys who don’t find girls, because the other sex is usually much more down to Earth, self-reliant, and adapted (true as much for the young Muslima as the native white girl). In case of a marriage the extreme past is usually laid to a rest, because of the needs to get and maintain a job. That is, even if they do not die away, they only grow in numbers up to a limit and then just grow old and get tired. Of course they can do a lot of harm meanwhile and that needs to be combated.
For the above to work out it first and foremost needs jobs that allow to maintain a family. Next it needs (from the natives) the will to accept immigrants in other than menial roles and (from the immigrants) the commitment to become full citizens. This give and take is still very much lacking, but it is secondary to the job issue.
If the economy is decent, Europe is in for a much more colorful future, which – whether one likes it or not (*) – will include a large faith group of liberal Muslims.
If the economy stalls, Europe will be much more violent, just as one sees it right now at its fringes, e.g. in the Caucasus or the Levant. But it will not become a second Arabia, because the population dynamics simply are not that way: the major growth in immigrant population is form the first to the second generation and then somewhat to the third. Hopeless people usually do not marry. If they live from welfare, than one or two children will be as useful as ten.
Admittedly, the perspective above is from experiences in Germany, where “race-relations” (**) have become better, unless one lives in a mega-city like Berlin. We are not looking forward to doom or extinction.
(*) I don’t, but this is a free county.
(**) We don’t have a word for it. Political practice and contemporary law deny the existence of anything like “race” at all.
You want to be enlightened Saffer?
How about taking the already overtaxed workers in the NHS Hospitals and demanding that all Muslim patients have their beds turned 5X/day towards Mecca? Never mind the guy in the next bed having a medical emergency, gotta get those beds turned toward Mecca…
How about allowing polygamy to immigrants and paying them welfare benefits based on how many wives they have as opposed to natural citizens where polygamy is illgeal?
How about having Catholic Bishops call for prayer rooms and special washing facilities INSIDE Catholic schools in the name of diversity?
How about the banning of all but Halal meals in all public schools in Scotland and various school districts in other parts of the U.K.?
How about banning any image of a pig, including Piglett or a piggy bank from the British Isles?
How about having the leader of Iran; that same country that made fools of British sailors (at the politicians of the U.K.’s tacit consent) be given a “prime time” slot to rebut the Queen of England while the very previous evening Iran hung 10 people in public for the crime of being “troublemakers”?
How about calls from the head of the Church of England, U.K. politicians and various other notables from other countries, most recently Switzerland, for the institution of Sharia law for Islamic immigrants? They claim that it is only inevitable and, after all, immigrants should be able to live under the same legal system as their home cultures…
I would just like to point out that one week ago Hamas adopted Sharia law. That includes crucifixion!
The situation in the EU is so far gone that many people feel it is not able to be retrieved to western standards and morality.
Yes, the EU has gone completely off the rails. The U.K. is 2nd only to North Korea in spy cameras on its own citizens. One can be heavily fined for placing the wrong piece of refuse in the wrong recepticle by the gov’t while the gov’t dumps or burns over 10% of the recyclables.
Several countries in the EU, the UK most notable, are engaged in a population exchange. Natives are rushing out of the country while immigrants from 3rd world countries are rushing in.
I suggest for further inquiry the book Londonistan by Melanie Phillips or the two sites Gates of Vienna and Brussels Journal.
Race or color has nothing to do with Europe’s grim future. Culture has everything to do with it. The demographic changes and “multi-culti” PC correctness that has taken hold in Europe allows an intolerant, all-encompassing culture to take over.
I mourn the passing of English, French, German, Dutch, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and Spanish cultures in Europe. They are all being inexorably swept aside.
SteveC – you beat me to it; every time I read one of these stories, I immediately think of Steyn’s thesis in “America Alone”, and even though it’s two years old, it’s as topical as ever. Steyn predicts that the creeping Islamification of Europe will be dotted along the way with various instances of backlash from the Judeo/Christian population, but that the sheer weight of demographics will win out in the end, and in the immigrants’ favor. One hopes that the resulting “Eurabia” will have picked up some liberalizing elements along the way, but unfortunately Islam does seem to be very resistant to reformation.
Scary times.
For the European readers who’ve commented, above (Willkommen), a quote from the book “America Alone” at page xxii, From an interview with Oscar van den Boogaard, a Dutch gay ‘humanist’ in De Standard — “I am not a warrior, but who is?” he shrugged. I have never learned to fight for my freedom. I was only good at enjoying it.”
Everyone, should read that and take it to heart. It’s fine to be free and enjoy that freedom — but you must understand how you got it and, more importantly, determine to protect it if you don’t want to lose it.
What has been happening in Europe and elsewhere, is that the free societies have allowed their freedoms to be subverted by immigrants to the point of destroying their free cultures.
I saw this piece earlier today … a ray of light amid all these anti-Israel protests. Demonstrators in Spain were hoisting banners with swastikas in denouncing Tel Aviv. You know how “tolerant” folks like that are.
Carry on…
Babs:
I think I’m in Luuv! I wanna propose marriage! (Of course my wife of 35 yrs might object) Great post!–pretty much covers the waterfront. And don’t forget Fjordman in the mix. He used to have his own site of the same name, now posts @GoV. Has a new book out…He was on to the problems in Sweden and Malmo in particular as far back as 2004.
You might want to visit a UK libertarian site called “The Devils Kitchen” for more on the idiocy in England, as well as a site in Brisbane run by a PhD named John C. Ray called: “Eye on Britain.” Also covers much the same stuff on separate blogs “Education Watch International” and “Socialized Medicine.” As he’s retired he has plenty of time. His other blogs are “Greenie Watch,” “Dissecting Leftism,” “Political Correctness Watch,” “Gun Watch,” “Australian Politics,” and “Immigration Watch International.” He updates each one every day–busy guy with a full time passion.
The sad thing is that I could go on and on…
The examples I gave were just off the top of my head.
So Saffer, If you REALLY want to know how the European culture is changing, and it is at a rapid pace, you have a lot of reading to do.
If you are a European and this is the first you have heard of these things then, well, you have a bit of cause for alarm as it has been going on for quite some time.
I suggest you take a very close look at what is going on in Brussels.
Best,
Babs
You know, maybe you all know saffer better than I do, but I didn’t think he was trolling. Still, he got his answer. As always, I caution that the USA is not that far behind Europe.
Hajo-hi, I consider you a friend on this board, but I think your post reflects the same naive optimism that Europe’s ruling class displayed in getting Europe into its current mess. And there was another post at Christmas, from IIRC a Finnish guest, who cited how happy he was to have his family in his house: his wife of forty-five years (MOL), his three sons, two daughter-in-laws, and two grandchildren. I could think of nothing better to show the inverted pyramid of the socialist states of Europe. Here in Italy it is common for couples to be engaged up to ten years before actually getting married because the tax burdens are so high that it takes that long for the two families (not just the couple) to save enough money to put the couple into a house.
*godwin’s law alert*
I’ve not gone to Fjordman’s posts or to Gates of Vienna or Brussels Journal recently, and the reason is that they seem to have made common cause with neo-Nazis and white supremacists. It’s hidden a bit, bit not if you know which Odin’s Crosses or genocide advocate post or white nationalist posts to look for. (A search for GoV or BrJo on LGF will show some of the dustups; I’ve not followed LGF as closely lately, either, for other reasons.)
These guys and LGF got into a big scuffle earlier this year because of it; also, GoV’s criticized Robert Spencer over emphasizing the need to reject white supremacist groups attempting common cause with anti-Islamist efforts, and Brussels Journal’s allied with Valaams Belang.
Careful what you step in over there.
STEVEC,
“What has been happening in Europe and elsewhere, is that the free societies have allowed their freedoms to be subverted by immigrants to the point of destroying their free cultures.”
This would be true if you inserted almost. I believe this is just the way free societies work, because, come on, else they would not be free. They take the challenge in the moment their freedom is really endangered.
Just one example why I do not think its true (again specific to Germany): Until around to years ago a Muslim father who murdered his daughter in a so called “honor killing” could expect “extenuating circumstances” in court. This has now being completely reversed to flat out murder in the first degree. Of course, there is no death sentence here, but 25 years is still some time.
I would like to comment on some of the other posts as well, but I will now be off for a New Years Eve Trip. Just one note to all: Please be more confident in man, especially in his daughters.
Chap, your comment reflects the damage that Charles Johnson’s ego has done to the common cause. I’ll admit there are things on GoV that I quietly step aside from, not because they are wrong or racist than because they are too messy and tiresome to deal with and thus distractions from fighting the counterjihad. However, I’ve dropped LGF as useless in its entirety, and CJ is as big (and stupid) a bully as the jihadis. If he convinced someone as sharp as you that GoV is laced up with white supremacists, so much that you won’t even consider reading what’s posted over there, then as we used to say in the old days of GWOT, “the terrorists have already won!”
I am not aware that there has ever been a dispute between Spencer and GoV, and Fjordman and other commentators are often posted on both sites (Spencer laid low when CJ started slandering GoV, but ultimately stood up to CJ when LGF’s guns were finally turned on him as well).
What Spencer has said over the years is that if mainstream political parties will not confront Islamic extremism and policies that aid it such as uncontrolled immigration, they leave the field wide open for groups such as the BNP to harness the general public concern over the issues. Not only does the cowardice of the mainstream parties enable the strengthening of the fringe parties, but it allows any legitimate criticism of Islamic extremism to be tarred as “hate speech,” and the critics as “racists.” Disastrous consequences all around.
Babs & Snake Eater,
Thanks for the feedback.
I’m not a Euro, just another bloody colonial. Son of Africa. Currently taking refuge in one of the old countries as my homeland follows the rest of the continent down the crapper.
Snake Eater, just asking out of curiosity. Trying to get a notion of the perceived (US) nature of the coming doom (Euro).
From your comments, I get the idea Yanks are reading the smoke signals from across the pond and arriving at a prediction of racial, cultural and political catastrophe for the natives.
If the thrust of your argument is that Europe is a heading for an undemocratic, US-antagonistic future, I agree with you. Let’s not forget that, unlike the colonies, democracy is just another phase in the continents very long history, not the be all and end all of its existence. However, I don’t believe that most of Europe, if not all of it, will fall under foreign rule, be it political, cultural or religious. The brand of tyranny those living in Europe can look forward to will be very much home-grown.
To get a sense of the Euro’s resilience, read Michael Totten’s Kosovo posts. Blood and soil first. Democracy, absolute monarchy, tyranny, christianity, islam, paganism and all that other stuff are just accessories.
Very un-PC, I know, but reality cares nothing for our fantasies.
Saffer, you’re absolutely right that most of Europe will not fall under foreign rule, and that it’s tyranny will be home-grown. The problem for the USA, though, is that these Euro-weenie tyrannies are well along the road of becoming vassal states for the Arabs, and hence useless in the defence against Islam.
Saying things like “Blood and soil first” are what got GoV in trouble with the lizards at LGF in the first place. I hesitated to respond to Chap for fear of drawing them over here–an infestation worse than a thousand Libyans washing up on your shores each day–but speaking plainly and honestly is prized at Chez Lex. Some things won’t change in Europe, but many, many things are changing.
The fact is that Robert Spencer was banned from LGF, not GoV, as also was Fjordman. You will not see posts by Fjordman at LGF any more. This happened about 8 months ago. The Robert Spencer banning took place about 3 months ago.
And, what Zane says is absolutely true; no quarter can be given to the BNP or VB under any circumstances at LGF although these political parties are filling the exact role that Robert Spencer warns against. The cheering squad at LGF, comprised of what I consider to be people with a mentality and vocabulary of 16 year old boys, hailed the purging by CJ at LGF in full volume.
As this European “cultural” ball rolls further and further down hill, with the main stream politicians placing more and more blame for unrest on the native culture, these “outlawed” political parties will increase in popularity and power.
The big brake is the unelected EU power elite in Brussels. This is where tyranny will come from.
Zane,
“Blood and soil first” sums up my take on the Euro’s world-view, which persists despite leftist’s continued attempts to indoctrinate them to the contrary.
Perhaps my disdain for the Arabs is blinding me to reality, but the thought of Europe, even the south, bending its knee to them strikes me as ludicrous.
When Europe goes over to the dark side, I’m convinced its role in the defence against Islam will be a moot point, as more likely than not it’ll pose a direct threat to the US. One of the certainties of life is that Euro tyrants of every stripe hate the US.
Ja, Hajo, “die” is the grammatical form, but my German playmates im Pflaz (Dansenberg in der nähe Kasierslautern) would often use “der” instead. That’s what you get when you mix Amerikaner brats with the Deutsch type.
What will kill Europe is multi-culturalism. We have the same disease here, but there has been some resistance against it and its whoring mother, political correctness. There are some encouraging signs in Holland, but we will have to wait and see if the Dutch will do what they need to.
Yes, das ist die frage, and will remain so for only a short period. The hour is very late, however, and events in the Levant will determine the destiny of Europe. You can read biblical prophecy and see where we are headed, and Europe will play a very large part. I think the events of Ezekial Chapters 38 and 39 will happen first, but the stage will be set for Europe before that.
Roger all. I haven’t seen a trustable summary of the various dustups yet. “I *hate* Illinois Nazis.”
Besides, we can do Jacksonian our own way, which is different from the European way.
Whoa, multi-culturalism rampant on the streets of Ft Lauderdale. Next we will have homicide bombers at your local synagogue, closely followed by screaming hysterical muslim women mourning their beloved jihadi martyrs. And you won’t have to wait for the national news to catch the story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Xl68kP4wo
I live in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. It is a remarkably diverse community. There is one of the largest Hindu Mandirs in the country about 15 minutes away, and a Buddhist temple close by. There is even a Jain church in the area.
But by far the fastest growing religious community, if judged by new construction, is Islam. Two enormous mosques constructed in last 18 months. I wonder where they are coming from?
Flatlander, in your neck of the woods: Iraq.
I’ll let someone else explain that since we’ve been so successful over there.
Saffer, if you are not familiar with it, I recommend you immediately obtain a copy of Bat Ye’or’s Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis. You really need only read the first fifty pages, the rest is laborious documentation. The average European is not no board with selling its birthright to the Arabs, not like its unelected star-council leadership, but they are nonetheless along for the ride because they can’t wean themselves from the social welfare teat.
Of note, Oriana Fallaci chides herself repeatedly in her last trilogy of books that despite her reputation as the great investigative reporter, she entirely missed Europe being sold to the Arabs. She was stunned when she began checking Ye’or’s work, thinking it on the addled conspiracy side, only to find that it was all true, and it was all done in the open–no secret councils, no smoky backrooms. It is such a horrendous betrayal that it truly boggles the mind to comprehend such a scandal.