It seems to me that all this talk about “proportionality” in the ongoing brawl between Israel and Hamas misses the point. This has nothing at all to do with proportionality, nor even the relative merits of their various arguments, and everything to do with the mutual aspirations of the antagonists. These aspirations overlap in a ven diagram of violence.
Hamas knows it is too militarily weak to follow its dream to its oft-stated end, and push every last Israeli into the sea. Their only hope of achieving eventual victory is to inflame Arab opinion against Israel while stoking Western guilt (and stacking Western gelt) to more thoroughly isolate Israel from its core of civilized support. They deliberately allowed the truce between the two parties to expire because they calculated that doing so, and launching missiles into southern Israel, would prompt precisely the kind of retaliation that Israel delivered – a retaliation that would thrust Hamas back into the spotlight of world attention. The Israeli “blockade” of Gaza certainly wasn’t doing it, and what with the increasing misery of those trapped in the Gaza slums ever since the unilateral Israeli withdrawal, the broader Palestinian people might eventually conclude that electing Hamas to lead the Palestinian assembly had not led to the kind of change they were hoping for. Their strategy has worked, although there were some tactical failures – the Israeli information operations campaign convinced them that they had a little more time than they in fact did, and Hamas militants were everywhere caught in the open on the first day. This is only a minor setback for what is, after all, little more than a death cult.
The Israeli government, for it’s its part, judged that the opportunity to destroy significant elements of Hamas’ combat power in the soft political middle of a US presidential transition was too good to pass up. They’d get at least three weeks to try and isolate, fix and destroy those who had repeatedly vowed to kill them. Domestic political calculations must also be in play – national elections are in February – but while the Israeli government must know that they cannot bomb Hamas into complete submission, each dead terrorist means one less to fire rockets into Sderot.
Arab heads of state will issue their ritual denunciations of Israel, and the UN will denounce both parties, while throughout the world, anyone with a passing interest will adopt their preferred pose. Meanwhile, the fighting will continue because each combatant is getting exactly what they want within the very different constraints of their moral systems: the hope of killing more “juice” on the one hand, and the hope of saving more of them on the other.
Thus, parallelism.
Sounds like the evening news lead in commentary on a yet-to-be-aired introspective channel. Still you have to feel some empathy for the helpless souls caught in the middle of a situation made theirs by simple birthright. I don’t see a change in world opinion condemning Israel until the Hamas goal of hitting Tel Aviv is achieved. And with a little Iranian help we might see that before year end 2009.
I may be naive but it surprises me every time with the immense numbers of anti-semites in the Western World… and the incredible level of irrational hatred of Jews in the muslim/arab world…
Yeah, don’ja just hate ‘em “Juice?”; I guess them “Juice” have decided that they might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb insofar as world opinion matters. Just switch the selector to bombs ripple….the hell with the single drop GPS stuff…
(I know, I’m just a bad, bad, person)
Well, virgil, it worked for LeMay, didn’t it?
Yeah, I know, that’s not why he did it. {/snerk}
Lex, excuse me if I missed the point, but this post seems a tad pessimistic for you. I see -to a degree- what you’re saying about parallelism, but can Israel be placed in the same class as the Hamas leaders?
First, any legitmate government has an obligation to protect their citizens. Second, Israel is a democracy, and their leader are obliged to hearken to public opinion. I don’t see that as parallel to the Hamas objectives, but maybe that’s just me.
Sometimes I think Israel should decide to be hung for sheep instead of lamb, and militarily re-conquer Gaza and the West Bank. Shoot or deport anyone they don’t like, and declare the Greater State of Israel. Then tell Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and the Saudis to deal with it. Maybe sweeten the pot with some resettlement funds, with an assist from Uncle Sugar.
What the heck, most of the “civilized” world (spit) hates the country anyway. Might was well get some mileage out of that rep, no?
Then again, I’m the kinda guy who -late at night- thinks maybe the best thing for Africa is to let Europe recolonize the place.
No, really, think about it; were there mass murders, ethnic cleansing, starvation, and roving bandit militias when the Euros were in charge? Ok, except for the Congo?
Ok, we don’t let Belgium in on it…
As probably Lex’s oldest commenter here, I can remember the Second World War, and clearly remember that “the world leaders,” all of them, at the end of that conflict agreed to give the survivors of the Holocaust a bit of land in the Middle East as their lebensraum and partial consolation for the terrible losses they had suffered. Naturally, in the scuffle among the Mid East’s various countries, the Israelis were assigned the most barren, non-productive strip of land, with some coast. In the ensuing years, the Israelis, whose guts and brilliance and determination are unassailable [or should be] turned that barren strip of land into an agricultural paradise, established great research labs to produce new industrial products which were marketed to great effect throughout the world, and built up a high-tech military complex to protect themselves against constant attacks by their more primitive and less energetic neighbors. Which is the reason they are constantly being attacked.
And frankly, I’m tired of it. Pernicious envy is an evil and ultimately destructive thing. The difference between envy and jealousy is notable. Jealousy is “I want what you’ve got, dammit.” Most of us sometimes feel that wasy. Envy is far darker … “I want what you’ve got and I want you utterly destroyed.”
Marianne
See – here’s the deal. Qassam rocket attacks have been steadily increasing over time – over 1000 this past year alone, despite any so-called “truce” by Hamas. Ask the residents of Sderot about living under the threat of another rocket delivering its payload within 9-13 seconds of launch from the protected enclave of the Gaza Strip. Of course, none of *that* will make the evening news or front pages. Bottomline then – where is Israel to draw the line, 1000 rocket strikes? 100? 1? I know where we should/ought to draw it…
- SJS
Marianne,
Thanks so much for the thoughtful words. The only regret I have is that I didn’t think of them ‘me own self’.
Guy
The “big lie” at the core of this whole issue?
Moral equivalence of Hamas/Palestinian nationalism and Israel.
As a great American said one Christmas when backed into a corner like Israel is every day, “NUTS!”
Casey;
When Belgium left the Congo in the early 60s they even RIPPED OUT THE ELEC. WIRING of every Govt. occupied building! Left the new owners with nothing! nada, zero infrastructure.
(well, a few roads and building shells)
Welcome to a fresh start, and all that.
As probably Lex’s oldest commenter here, I can remember the Second World War, and clearly remember that “the world leaders,” all of them, at the end of that conflict agreed to give the survivors of the Holocaust a bit of land in the Middle East as their lebensraum and partial consolation for the terrible losses they had suffered. Naturally, in the scuffle among the Mid East’s various countries, the Israelis were assigned the most barren, non-productive strip of land, with some coast. In the ensuing years, the Israelis, whose guts and brilliance and determination are unassailable [or should be] turned that barren strip of land into an agricultural paradise, established great research labs to produce new industrial products which were marketed to great effect throughout the world, and built up a high-tech military complex to protect themselves against constant attacks by their more primitive and less energetic neighbors. Which is the reason they are constantly being attacked.
And frankly, I’m tired of it. Pernicious envy is an evil and ultimately destructive thing. The difference between envy and jealousy is notable. Jealousy is “I want what you’ve got, dammit.” Most of us sometimes feel that way. Envy is far darker … “I want what you’ve got and I want you utterly destroyed.”
Marianne
Death to juice? I don’t care for orange juice, but I do love Apple and Grape.
Seriously, Israel is being surrounded, and has been running down. People get war weary after while, even when the threat is existential. The few times they have had their enemy on the ropes, they have been stopped, by us no less (look up Yom Kippur, 1973 when they had the Egyptian 6th Army totally isolated and turned into the pocket to destroy it). You can’t win a conventional stand up fight unless you are in the position to dictate terms. If that isn’t your goal, then you won’t win, period.
In this fight, they will not be allowed to take out Hamas, and I think they could take it out in Gaza, but they can’t do it in 3 weeks. They would have to put boots on the ground and go in and root them out. MOUT ops are time consuming and bloody. The only other solution is given above, the LeMay solution – set ‘em to ripple. Carpet bomb the place. I doubt Israel has the ordnance on hand to do that, but Israel would not survive the moral outrage. It may be something similar to that which triggers the invasion described in Ezekial chapters 38 and 39. That passage is worth your time.
I think SJS hit the magic number. Israel simply absorbs 1000 or so Qassam hits over the course of 6-7 months and then “proportionately” respond with 1000 LGBs/Hellfires dropped within 3-4 days. Just gives a new meaning to “tit for tat”.
And they maintain the moral high ground.
Arab heads of state may be denouncing the juice for their behavior but not the Egyptian’s head of state or FM. They denounce Hamas. I would have to look harder to see what King Abdulla has to say about the violence even though he is married to an arab of palestinian extraction iirc.
It’s interesting that there is no one and no place on earth that wants any palestinian arabs to come and settle and bring their erstwhile talents to full development in a peaceful country since it appears that palestinian arabs have only one talent and that one is only rudimentary in comparison to the talents of others more skilled in violence and war. They have been ‘practicing’ violence long enough. For all that practice they rank right near the bottom in Violence 101. For all that though, I’m not sure who they’d nuke first if they came into possession of a nuke. I think if Hamas got the bomb they’d hit Fatah and if Fatah got the bomb they’d nuke Hamas.
I’ve been watching the Talking Heads duel on this subject and am convinced Hamas is winning the InfoWar… which I believe was their goal all along. Just goad the Israelis into retaliating and sit back and wait for The World’s condemnations to roll in, with not a little bit of financial aid, in addition to “military assistance” from The Usual Suspects.
As for the “deaths of innocent victims”… Casualties mean nothing to Hamas, other than as props for gory teevee/newsprint coverage designed to inflame passions. The perfect example is in the transcript to a segment on last night’s News Hour w/Jim Lehrer, first interview. Example:
Marianne said:
the Israelis were assigned the most barren, non-productive strip of land, with some coast.
I think it was worse than that. Part of Israel was once a malaria swamp that no one had ever inhabitied!
Growing up in the NYC environ, we had a lot of friends and neighbors that were survivors of the Holocaust. I never really thought about it till recently but, the parents seemed to die off rather young leaving children and a spouse behind; heart attacks and medical complications. The neighbor woman two doors down that taught me ballet as a young girl lost her husband to a heart attack. He probably wasn’t even 40. He had been in a concentration camp.
I swear my mother practically had on speed dial the “plant a tree in Israel” memorial program. It was so common for my mother to make that call that I didn’t think much of it.
My heart goes out to Israel and all Jewish people around the world.
Curtis … You note that “there is no one and nowhere on earth that wants any Palestinian Arabs to come and settle and bring their erstwhile talents” to contribute [?] to their new place of residence. I have long wondered what constructive talents the Palestinians have. But our country seems to have admitted lots of Palestinian immigrants to add to our thick soup of different and often conflicting cultures. It’s so multi-culti and trendy, you know. In this morning’s Houston Chronicle there is a report on a group of Palestinians here in Houston protesting Israel’s “attacks.” If they want to protest, I invite them to go back where they came from.
See? I’m old and cranky and when I passed 80, I gave myself permission to be permanently politically incorrect. What a relief!
Marianne
The Gaza Strip is only, what, about 8 miles across and 25 miles long?
That’s not a lot of area to hide a rocket exhaust in. I’d think a few observation towers and maybe three or four UAV’s could pretty well pinpoint the launching location in a matter of a few seconds.
Counter-battery fire by, say, a couple of 120mm howitzers, would be on the way within a minute or two.
There has to be a reason this isn’t being done. Are they launching from civilian neighborhoods or are the rockets not large enough to be spotted?
– Max
Marianne,
I think almost all of our Palestinians have overstayed their visas and as usual our pathetic homeland security and INS, BIS agencies just failed, once again, to do their jobs. None of them have any redeeming features.
Max – I asked this on another site… Don’t we have technology in the Green Zone of Iraq that enables us within seconds of pin pointing the GPS of a rocket/mortar attack and responding super quick?
Why doesn’t Israel have this technology? For every 1 rocket sent over the border, Israel should respond with 20…
MaxD:
- yes and yes. Qassams are readily hidden in sheds, covered in truck beds, fired by remote device, etc. Counter-battery doesn’t do much good when it is against an alleyway that only holds rubbish and an expendable launcher.
- SJS
Oh, and sometimes they get caught red-handed by the Israeli AF.
Nice secondaries…
- SJS
Marianne, 5 generations ago, my familys last name was Adler. By good fortune, great-gran pere Adler was smitten of a young dark eyed Cajun girl, and Catholiced his last name with a “u”. But for that, my line might have ended in Nazi German with my father. And maybe, I might have made it to Israel. Do I have any sense of compassion with the Palestinians? Not one damn bit. Do I worry about what the Arabs have to say about it? Don’t lose a wink of sleep.
Ripple. Rinse.Repeat until the point is made, now, and forever.
Miss Marianne,
I would like to know how exactly you were able to get right inside my mind and pull my exact thoughts and opinions out — without any help from my own self.
Amazing.
Simply amazing.
Please keep it up; I could never articulate them as well as you are able to.
Marianne, I don’t care what your age is, were it not for the fact that I’m already married I’d consider it a honor to court somebody with so firm a disposition and willingness to assert herself. Keeps the mind sharp, it does, arguing with an equal.
Unfortunately for us, there’s this 1 year-old in my household already filling that role. Makes her opinion known and is unwilling to not be the center of attention. And she never, ever loses an argument with me.
I gotta work on that…
– Max
Steeljaw, those rockets are small to hide their launching points. Their payload is likewise small, but in a population center can be deadly. Thank you for answering my question.
Were it me and mine under this attack, I’d still do counter-battery fire to remove nearby buildings that might provide concealment. If it flattens 200 square miles that’s cool with me — if you don’t want artillery in your living room maybe you won’t let the kids launch rockets from the garage.
Israel is showing far more restraint in this matter than I would. They should be commended.
– Max
MaxDamage
Bumper sticker (unofficial) during 1968 Presidential campaign when Curt LeMay was on the ticket as Wallace’s running mate: “Bombs Away With Curt LeMay!”
Sentiments to live by……
Marianne, I think that you have a fan club here:)
BTW, I’m one of them!
Great comments.
Regards,
Lex, that’s a Venn diagram you refer to… it’s a proper name.
And it’s really nitpicking, but in your antipenultimate paragraph you used the wrong ‘its’. I point this out mostly because I never seem to get the chance to use the word ‘antipenultimate’.
Dave, a member of the Marianne fan club
To all you sweet folks who flattered me here … bless you and please, have a Happy New Year!
We all need each other to stay sane and focused, especially during the next four years. I promise to marry all you sweet guys in my next lifetimes. There have got to be more because I’m not finished yet.
Marianne
Ms. Matthews,
Thank you for your patience with us young folk.
My own Da turned 90 a few days back. He survived the Pacific War, as did my mom and some of her relatives, but not all. My Grandpa served in France in the Great War, and my great grandfather surrendered at Appomattox. What I’m saying is that we are all created from the same cloth, that variegated fabric of America that manages to find a common thread from so many different strands.
My father met and talked with veterans of the Civil War when he was a boy. He remembers watching them marching in parades, and riding in cars and floats when they couldn’t march anymore.
I have had the good fortune in my life to shake hands and have a nice conversation with a woman who, as a young girl, used to sit on Joshua Chamberlain’s porch and listen to him tell stories about the war. That is simply amazing.
There is a quote from Bruce Catton which sums our interests up better than most anything I have read.
“We are a people to whom the past is forever speaking. We listen to it because we cannot help ourselves, for the past speaks to us with many voices. Far out of that dark nowhere which is the time before we were born, men who were flesh of our flesh and bone of our bone went through fire and storm to break a path to the future. We are part of the future they died for; they are a part of the past that brought the future.”
You are a link in that chain that started somewhere beyond the revolution, and that was forged still by those who came after you, and is even now being hammered into place by my son and the sons and daughters of our contemporaries.
It’s nice to know that folks like yourself are made of the stuff that keeps those links strong and bright, and that keeps our varied bits a part of the whole.
May you and yours have a wonderful and profitable New Year, and many happy returns of the day!
Respects,
AW1 Tim:
Ditto on your comments above regarding our history. When I was in the 2nd grade my Mother took me out of school to drive the 22 miles from our home to Appomattox Court House National Park to witness the centennial celebration of your Great Grandfather’s surrender. I plan on going back for the 150th celebration in a few short years.
We are indeed a product of our history. During the 50th anniversay of D Day, President Clinton delivered one of the best lines of any Presidential Speech to the assembled veterans on Omaha Beach – “We are the children of your sacrifice…”. Thusly inspired I wrote my Uncle a letter thanking him for his service that fateful day on that beach which will forever be hallowed ground for Americans surely and those who remember in Europe as well.
Happy New Year to all and May God Bless each and all.
AW1 Tim: The first book that got me addicted to becoming reasonably educated on the Civil War (or insert whatever terminology one prefers) was “Killer Angels”.
Joshua Chamberlain was prominent in the book and since reading a number of books about Gettysburg I have had the honor and pleasure of setting on top of Little Round top for a sunrise and a sunset, and bowing my head for what both sides sacrificed.
We have much to be grateful for, and much do we owe.
With my very best wishes to all for a most Wonderful New Year.