I’ve never had the opportunity to ditch and aircraft before, so I speak under fear of correction, but it seems to me that Chesley “Sully” Sullenburg and his crew did a very nice job putting an Airbus 380 320 (first reports, meh) down in the Hudson River without loss of life after a pair of engine-shredding bird strikes.
A USAF fighter jock, too. Huh.
Is Hillary’s Senate seat still up for grabs?
Hat’s off as well to the New York ferry crews and citizens that hauled the pax out and gave them gear to keep warm.
Not a good day to die, I guess.
Back in the day when I was a glider pilot instructor, I really enjoyed working with all the “old” airline pilots who wanted to get some real flying in, instead of punching codes into the autopilot – as one put it IIRC.
The worst students, worse than people with no airtime at all, were the low-time Private Pilot Licence types who had somehow come under the delusion that they knew how to fly. Fortunately, this delusion is quite easy for an experience gliding instructor to shatter.
But nobody, no matter how experienced, even the hi-time airline Captains, ever did the aerotow right the first time: with one exception – a Canadian Snowbird team member. He understood right away that it was basically formation flying, but everyone else seemed have a bit of trouble getting past the idea that somehow the towplane pilot was doing the driving for you.
Hmrdrvr-
I believe the SIR said there WAS a problem with the RAG plane – JT said the same thing. If you different, I’d love to hear. 124 and 126, all killed (5 each time). 126 was a hydraulic fire, no one know what the caused the 124 one. The CO of 124 and every RAG CO and Commodore since then has failed the community by not demanding GPWS with aural warning for the airplane.
The bailout was 122, around 89/90. Engine fire off of cat. Didn’t go out. Incedently, one of the NFO’s on the 122 bailout died in the 124 crash.
Nose
Also:
I don’t know about the 123 ditch, but the 115 ditch was caused by a NATOPS violation – not using the power lever lock. The guy in the left seat, who was not the Aircraft Commander, tried to reset a high at the ramp and slammed the levers to idle, they went up into the slot to go up into reverse. When they boltered, the guy in the right seat pushed forward on them so hard that the other guy couldn’t get them back down into the flight range. They rolled off the angle at idle. Left seat and two of the NFO’s lost.
Incidentally, after the 126 crash, I always briefed that if we had an uncontrollable fire, don’t be surprised if I shift into a “ditch” mode.
AWC@42: Not sure if we’re talking about the same incident, but a buddy from HAL-5 was AO crew on that flight.
His account tells of the skipper (a seaplane driver) in left seat making a textbook ditching. I recall how the AO bubba ‘jettisoned’ flares by pushing the ‘Fire’ button and twirling the selector switch (totally non-NATOPS procedure).
The wings peeled on impact with a spectacular flash/bang, and the water tank from the head collapsed forward on to my buddy at his station.Later, in the water, the skipper saw that one raft was full and attempted to reach the second raft; never seen again. Apparently the smaller of the two rafts had a full complement, but the larger only had a few souls aboard. I recall his saying that there was a big flap about that afterward, and that most didn’t understand there being two different sized rafts aboard.
When a Cobra Ball A/C showed up, the crew fired a flare its way. One flare went over the wing and the second under the wing; very pissed off pilot. “We just wanted to make sure you saw us!”
They were later picked up by a Soviet vessel, kept below but treated reasonably well, snuck peeks of the Soviet port, and were later repatriated.
Again, snippets of his account as recalled by me.
Mongo,
Yeah, the three AW’s on board died of exposure. the 2nd mech was killed at his ditching station when an electronics rack collapsed, according to the reports we read. The pilot made certain everyone else got out, but was swept away as he tried to get to one of the rafts. The sea state was pretty big, with 12′+ swells, and snow going sideways.
According to what I read, the AW’s had sustained tears in their poopy suits while getting the life rafts out and exiting the A/C. Many jagged aluminum edges caused minor injuries too. The theory going around was that the AW’s were lost, in part due to the tears in their exposure suits, but also they happened to be the only three unmarried guys on the crew. Make of that what you will.
One thing is for certain: Shortly after that, the P-3 community got rid of the old exposure suits and went to the Imperial Wet Suits instead. I was one of those who tested them out for CPW-5 up in Casco bay. Let me tell you, I was some impressed with how well those suits worked, and how cold that water was
Life and death. It’s all in the hands of the 2 pilots up front in commercial aviation. These poor bastards have to deal with the TSA every single day!
This crew pulled off a miracle.
Pilots and crew of US Air flight 1549, God Bless and thank you.
Tim,
I knew the TACCO on that flight from PNCLA..Heard the story from him about 2 years after. Boat school grad- he’s about my vintage.
Yes Mongo. They were picked up by a Soviet AGI. All in the vicinity of Shemya I remember, an interesting and forbidding piece of USAF rock I landed at and garnered a lot of attention. It served as an alternate on a long tortuous journey back to ‘mother’ all made possible by old info supplied by VPers, simple bad gouge and a typhoon ’she’ was evading.
Nose,
Hmrdrvr essentially correct that the rag E-2 was upwind and flying.. contributing material factors are always possible. Concur- it does seem strange that it doesn’t have GPWS – especially this century..TCAS would be even better. Maybe the decade late E-2D will have it?
P-8 discussion still ongoing (may already be decided) is whether to even carry parachutes on board to save on weight/space; hence my question on whether the 737 has a similar function as the “Ditch Switch” in the Europa plane. Inverse of the E-2 discussion the P-3 has never had a full crew bailout, right? Strange but it reinforces the logic that pilots will follow other pilots/crew of the same T/M/S who have been successful in the past….
I like having the simple logic of a face curtain or t-handle yank from a MB or an escapepac system..makes things simple.
Again, my professional respect for Sully, Nose and all those big wing “xx souls on board” carrying pilots who, much more often than not, make the right decisions. Awesome responsibility.
b2
From the SUN a.m reporting:
“NTSB board member Kitty Higgins said.
Sullenberger recounted seeing his windshield filled with big, dark-brown birds.
“His instinct was to duck,” Higgins said, recounting their interview. Then there was a thump, the smell of burning birds, and silence as both aircraft engines cut out.
… decided it would be too dangerous to attempt a landing at the smaller Teterboro Airport in New Jersey.
“We can’t do it,” he told air traffic controllers. “We’re gonna be in the Hudson.”
Two flight attendants likened it to a hard landing — nothing more. There was one impact, no bounce, then a gradual deceleration.
It all happened so fast, the crew never threw the aircraft’s “ditch switch,” which seals off vents in the fuselage to make it more seaworthy. ”
If ya don’t train for the scenario, then the switch action(s) are not likely to be accomplished. By no means a criticism – only a curious situation where Airbus anticipates a ditch and builds a system for it – but the airlines maybe don’t train for it. Systems available but not used … in this case, apparently made no diff because the plane stayed together (more or less) and floated. Even a ditch switch won’t help if the bird cartwheels or the skin damage is great. First appearances are this suffered much skin damage but the floor above the baggage compartment etc maybe helped it float?
BTW – that ditching off Alaska back around 1980 or so – we were doing a mission in a WC-135B … not close enough to provide coverage although we did nudge that direction … but close enough to listen to events unfolding. Gave us pause to rethink our gear and procedures. We did not fly in exposure suits … only standard nomex.
I had recently left Kodiak when the p-3 ditching occurred. A good friend and former Navy type , BillPorter, was the AC of the C-130 (USCG) that was first on-scene. He coordinated the rescue assistance until he had to bingo for fuel.
As far as airline or multi-engine in general, the A320 ditching was the product of pragmatic thinking instead of the typical ” land at the nearest suitable airport” mindset ingrained by training. I have always had a problem with that mentality as opposed to getting it on the ground (or water) as soon as possible in certain situatiions like smoke in the cockpit or fire. I once watched an S-2 roll over and auger into the ground in the pattern at CRP after experiencing an engine fire. Instead of yanking the power and putting it down in a nicely plowed field in front of him, he turned downwind to return to the concrete and never made it through the crosswind turn as the fire burned through his controls. The mindset is not to consider the obvious as you would have to do in single engine with a welded seat.
These guys did great. Maybe the FAA and airline training geniuses will have to rethink a few things.
Being ever optimistict (not), I wonder how long it will be before some lawyer convinces one of the pax that it would be a slam-dunk to sue the airline, city and state of New York, NY Port Authority, and the FAA for failure to avoid and/or control the bird hazard, followed by the tree huggers and bird lovers suing for endangering wildlife.
My bud the ‘Nam Huey “Slick”/AF C-141/Glider Instructor/Commercial Big Iron pilot buddy is completely awe stuck. Said “All of us airline pilots wished we’d do as well if it ever happened to us, but the stats show something different…” Asked me if I had heard of some award, begins with a “C” for the best airline pilot. Nope…”We’ll, I’m sure they are chiseling his name on it right now for 2009.”
And…I found a new toy for Lex to consider… made right north of him, too.
I’m a little late but here goes. As a lotof you remember, I bad mouthed Airbuses during the Tanker Fiasco. I stand corrceted. That A320 that Captain Sully ditched in the Hudson River is in one piece, minus the Port Engine. Looks to be a pretty tough bird after all.
Sully’s TAIL at: http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/39803372.html#
“Long before he won instant celebrity for his cool handling of the ditching of US Airways flight 1549 in the Hudson River on January 15, 2009, Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger had thought a lot about airline safety procedures. But when it came time to apply those lessons, he and his crew relied as much on instinct as on the playbook. Sullenberger spoke with Air & Space editor Linda Shiner on February 16, almost a month to the day after the dramatic events that earned him worldwide acclaim from fellow pilots and the public alike.”