A 40-year old second lieutenant stationed in Iraq is apparently getting way out of his swim lane:
A U.S. soldier on active duty in Iraq has called President Obama an “impostor” in a statement in which he affirmed plans to join as plaintiff in a challenge to Obama’s eligibility to be commander in chief…
“Until Mr. Obama releases a ‘vault copy’ of his original birth certificate for public review, I will consider him neither my Commander in Chief nor my President, but rather, a usurper to the Office – an impostor,” his statement said.
I’m no particular fan of the president’s agenda, but this smells too like the actions of those refuseniks who insisted that the 2000 presidential election was invalid because the result failed to conform to their preferences. Only this is worse, because the individual in question is an active duty officer serving in a combat zone. It’s going to create a huge headache for both his soldiers and their chain of command, all of whom have much better things to do with their lives – like preserve them – than to coddle the whimsies of a rogue 2LT.
He swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. This is mere vanity.
Yeah, wrong. But it will be fun to watch!
I’m not condoning his actions but the issues raised by the various groups pursuing this make me wonder: Has the US ever had the eligibility of a President questioned before in this manner?
What entity should validate a candidate for eligibility? This seems like very murky water indeed. For instance, and I’m not saying any of the allegations are true, what if it was somehow shown that a President didn’t meet the Constitutional requirements? Does Congress have to impeach him to remove him for, in effect, lying on his job application?
I’m guessing this has never been raised before and he founders didn’t imagine it could happen.
Tim and other historians on here: What ya got on this?
I know the final score, already.
Obama 1
Easterling 0
Not ballzie — nutz!
Isn’t making sure that the guy in the Oval Office actually meets the Constitutional requirements to serve there really a form of protecting and defending the Constitution?
If this 2Lt is willing to face a courts-martial for disrespect towards the President of United States, good.
I want to see these claims actually heard in court, instead of being dodged by the courts on the issue of ‘standing’.
BO’s refusal to open records is a concern.
Original birth certificate (might show he was born in overseas – but if his mother was an American citizen, he is still eligible to serve.)
Occidential College records (he might have enrolled as a foreign student)
I want a court to obtain those records – even if ‘under seal’ – and review them.
That dumbass needs to have his ass yanked out of there and sent to the worst sh!thole the Army has until his papers come through. He’ll be damn lucky not to get court-martialed out of this.
I hope this guy has plans as to what type of job he’ll be able to get once he gets convicted at Court Martial.
Talk about going “all in” with your chips/convictions.
When Truman fired MacArthur, MacArthur had argued that he, like Truman, took an oath to defend the Constitution just like Truman, only he had been at it far longer than Truman–who in any event, was only a temp occupant of the office–and that he knew as well as any man where his duties lay. Most academics and MacArthur’s critics on the left argued that if one followed MacArthur’s reasoning there would be chaos if thousands of officers were allowed to make their own interpretations as to the scope of their duties, and that MacArthur best defended the Constitution by following the orders of his lawfully elected CinC. (An interpretation with I happen to agree, btw) This view came to be pretty much “settled law” for some 30+ yrs until the Sandanistis and a certain Marine LtC
came along.
During the Iran-Contra hearings Ollie North claimed that he acted as he had because of either 1) A direct order from the President, 2) a direct order from his immediate superiors in the chain-of-command, or 3) in emergency circumstances out of communication (this was pre-satillite phone and cell-phone days) his actions taken were those he believed to be congruent to the views of his CinC.
Well, the left went crazy. Didn’t North KNOW that he had a greater loyalty than to one “just” one man–a mere elected “politician?” No, his GREATER loyalty (reversing themselves in the classic depends-whose-ox-is being-gored fashion) was TO THE CONSTITUTION!
Well, there the matter stood–until Clinton was elected. Then questions arose if the military would obey a draft dodger and a man who was on the written record as saying that he “LOATHED” the military. Oh, no,no,no, said Clinton backers, doing another 180; Clinton is their legally elected CinC.–they are duty bound to obey their President!
Aside from demonstrating the hiprocracy of the left, this short history demonstrates that matters of the “legitimacy” of the CinC are no laughing matter and go to the heart of civil-military relationships.
For this above reason I am of two minds regarding this Lt’s actions. In the immediate sense and as a practical matter Lex is correct. His actions are indeed going to be a huge headache for all concerned and the likely-hood that a court system that has already vouched for Obama will admit they are wrong, reverse themselves, and roil the political waters in these already turbulent enough times is not great.
OTH (the famous OTH) where Lex sees nothing but “mere vanity,” others see principle. I, for one find it more than passing strange that a “vault copy” was never proffered by Obama early on to put this “distraction” to rest. This concern was allowed to fester for months when it could have easily have been proved an illusion. The original true document has never seen the light of day (not unlike so many other of Obama’s records–Draft registration, College grades, medical records, etc.) and is kept so by “privacy” rules which Obama could wave–privacy rules which, in any event, he seemed to disdain when his Illinois’ political opponents sealed divorce proceedings were forcibly opened to the eyes of the nation under the doctrine of the public’s right to know about someone seeking public office.
So, as the saying goes,what’s the story, morning glory? The left made much of the legitimacy issue over the 2000 election of Bush with far less of a legal leg to stand on. Is such a request too much to ask of one who asks our permission to command the nuclear trigger to stand and deliver? To say that Obama has been less than forthcoming in this matter is an understatement. Some German officers felt they had a duty to assassinate Hitler because by his actions alone he was seen by them to have forfeited his legitimacy. We cheered those officers then–and Tom Cruise has just glorified them again this year in a major movie. Is it too much to ask if the guy who’s driving has a valid driver’s license to drive this thing we’re all riding in?
I wonder what score he’d get on the AQ test. Which reminds me, I wonder how the Aspie defense is working for Captain Nowak.
aeroeng/
Oh yeah, the big kids in not only his own command but in the Pentagon have already been burning up computer drives over this guy, I’m sure.
I thought this was one of the reasons we have Sergeants. You know, to provide some reality-test feedback to folks who might be a bit excessively obsessively “earnest.” Somebody send the lieutenant a link to wrong planet.net. I speak as one who suspects himself of having a bit of aspitude.
Basil Liddell-Hart said that soldiers are slow to grow up. That goes double for some of us neurally divergent folks. I’ll be 60 soon, and figure I’ve reached the emotional age of, oh, 30.
This is why I miss my (sadly now ex-) Sweetie. She was a very good Sergeant to me
JTG/
You mean you’ve ALREADY figured out what you want to be when you grow up!!
Man, you’re waay ahead of me….
[...] Neptunus Lex‘ one-line summary of this captures my thoughts: “A 40-year old second lieutenant stationed in Iraq is apparently getting way out of his swim lane.” [...]
Just as an aside, even the CA DMV will not accept a “Certification of Live Birth” from Hawaii, since they are word processor-printed extracts of the “Certificate of Live Birth” and there exists a brisk forgery business of them.
Barry could have settled this long ago, rather than continuing to fuel the fires of the conspiracy theorists.
Meet Leavenworth resident 1829374…..
Oh, man, “40-year-old second lieutenant”! I hadn’t read that. The boy is definitely an outlier. Definitely. Definitely.
Weird people should stick to Signal Corps, or Ordnance. I write as a weird person.
There is, like most things, a right and wrong way to deal with this. The Butter Bar chose the wrong way.
It’s a dangerous thing for JOs to get involved in politics, even in the manner he has chosen. I agree with the man, but he’s in a far different situation than I.
I would like to be a fireman when I grow up. I love those big trucks and the sirens, and all that downtime they get at the station. Beside that, military flying just doesn’t stand up.
(1) Nobody changed positions on Oliver North. The criticism of his actions, aside from the fact that they were dangerous, stupid, and immoral, was that they were illegal. He broke the law, then lied about it, then Reagan and his aides lied about having ordered it. No officer has the right to break the law, whether or not he thinks the President would have approved. The bizarro claims of the Reagan White House (and later Bush) that they could just revise the Constitution at their own whim did not justify it either. North was a criminal, and his superiors were criminals – there’s nothing more to it.
(2) No citizen or military officer owes loyalty to the President as an individual. They are bound by the law and the Constitution. The President exercises administrative authority under the civil law, and supreme command authority over the military, as authorized by the Constitution, but the President cannot violate the Constitution or order anyone else to do so. Reagan and Bush did that – and that does not absolve their underlings for the crimes they committed on that basis. Likewise, no one can refuse an authoritative order from the President, whether or not they approve of it. In the case of unconstitutional orders, they would have a duty to resist, and would then be allowed and required to make their case in court. But they are not entitled to simply demand satisfaction from their superiors in the absence of any clearly unconstitutional behavior – if the federal courts, the Congress, and the entire military chain of command all the way down to the level of junior lieutenants with 18 months’ experience believe Obama is the President, this clown has no business issuing demands. (“Until Mr. Obama releases a ‘vault copy’ of his original birth certificate for public review, I will consider him neither my Commander in Chief nor my President . . .”)
(3) Nobody ordered MacArthur to violate the Constitution – they just ordered him to stop being a self-important jackass and destroying the principle of civilian control of the military. His self-congratulatory grandstanding over the matter was meaningless; the President can revoke a general’s command for any reason, and Truman had more than enough reason. MacArther had no choice but to obey the President, no matter who they were, how long they had served, or what differences of opinion lay between them; instead, he flirted with mutiny before finally obeying orders. What MacArthur tried to fight a war off his own bat, in violation of Presidential orders, offered direct public criticism of the Commander in Chief to members of the opposition party in Congress, and issued military threats to foreign countries during wartime in direct contravention of the government’s own diplomacy. He was lucky he was allowed to resign.
(4) As for Obama, he has done at least as much, about this birth certificate thing, as is legally necessary – your propensity to act crazy about it is only to his advantage. Nobody takes this nonsense seriously, and even the right-wingers are calling the right-wingers out for it. As long as you’re expending your energy on this nonsense, it’s that much easier for him to push through the things he wants to do. And as you note, at any time he can drop the bomb on his opponents who choose to go down this road; if it ever becomes a serious-enough issue, he will, destroying their credibility effortlessly after they’ve spent years, perhaps, building a movement around this one stupid claim. Why should he expend his ammo prematurely when you’re busy running yourselves into a frazzle and lining more and more of his opponents up for the kill?
I think there’s more than one person who’s “way out of his swim lane”.
“your propensity to act crazy about it is only to his advantage.”
I wonder: Did you actually bother to read the post and comments? Or did you just wander by with a case of the ass?
Quartermaster/
A good friend of mine who I drink beer and shoot pool with on occasion in New Orleans is a Fireman who dropped out of Law school for the joys of the Firehouse. Of course he’s got his lawyer wife whom he met in Law school–the “Odd Couple.” (He’s also a nationally aclaimed BB umpire for LL and Babe Ruth/ American Legion Ball–a serious student of the game.) Smokes cigars to0, fwiw–but can only do it in the bar–wife forbids it at home–he spends a lot of time in the bar…. .He’s the rear driver on one of those big ladder rigs.
Well, next week I travel over to the DMV to renew my driver’s license. In order to obtain said license, I have to provide the DMW with a certified copy of my Birth Certificate. I also had to provide a copy to the VA when I applied for benefits, and I had to, again, provide a certified copy of my birth certificate when I applied for my passport.
Passing strange, then, that a man sitting in the oval office claims he has no need to show a copy of his since being a natural-born citizen is a prerequisite for the job.
This issue has been kicking around since before the election. All the gentleman in question has to do is to produce a certified copy of his birth certificate and all the arguing, speculation, etc goes away.
I don’t see anything out of the ordinary in asking that he do this simple thing, seeings how he and his civil servants have no problem in requiring it of me.
respects,
I seem to remember an officer pulling something similar when Clinton sent troops to Haiti under UN auspices in the 90′s.
A clever way to get out of Iraq, seems to me.
Bill Clinton was born in Kenya too??
i did not know that. thx for the update!
Gentlemen,
A copy of the birth certificate here. Regardless of your political orientation, don’t we (and Lt’s in Iraq) have better, more consequential things to worry about?
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/has_obamas_birth_certificate_been_disclosed.html
I see we have a true Gnostic among us in the form of one KTK who is as certain of his version/vision of “the truth” and “the law” as the ancient Gnostics were of their version/vision of “The Word.” Someone else (besides me) to whom it seems on the face of his introductory declarations the appellation “Often in error, but never in doubt.” may truly be applied.
Nice to have someone of such moral rectitude and historical certitude aboard. Now, as Lex hints, if only he could just read…..
bboyle/
Factcheck.org is a Soros-backed/funded organization, so they are hardly disinterested observers. Sorry, close, but no cigar.
I linked it was the first one up when I googled it. Here is the same thing at the LA Times:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html
The source is less important than the fact that it is highly unlikely to be a forgery. As the article notes anyway, it doesn’t matter where he was born (as in McCain’s case as well), a parent was American thus he is too. The more important point is that this stuff is beyond silly.
i call a “red herring penalty” on invoking McCain and the Panama Canal Zone. that particular situation was already duly rectified by express legislation of the Congress.
bboyle,
Not a certified copy of his birth certificate. It’s a “certificate of live birth” that can be purchased at any good stationary store and filled in with the appropriate information. It has no embossed seal nor signature of a Notary Public. In fact, these certificates are so often forged that they are not acceptable for proof of citizenship in almost every state.
What you say may be true, Tim, but Barry’s COLB has been validated by now. Used to have a series of links to those who followed this “controversy,” but I lost a ton of good links back in December.
Not only is the thing real, Ed Morrissey (now of Hot Air) published a scan of Barack Hussein Obama’s birth announcement from a local Hawaii paper. The argument is over, ok? Not that it ever held any substance, just as the non-argument about McCain’s citizenship.
The butter bar is a grandstanding idiot, and deserves what he’s going to get, good and hard. I agree with Heinrichs; if he’s that concerned, he should just resign.
Segueing all the way back to Lex’s original post, this “controversy” is at the same level of “selected, not elected,” and makes the proponents look just as silly.
Captain,
I’m a frequent reader, but rare commenter. However, after reading the following items in the comments,
“your propensity to act crazy about it is only to his advantage”
“don’t we (and Lt’s in Iraq) have better, more consequential things to worry about?”,
I feel the need to ask a rhetorical question. For the past eight years for those on the left side of the political spectrum found it perfectly acceptable to bash the last President ad nauseum. But, now that the shoe is on the other foot, when they catch so much as a whiff of naysaying about “The One”, why must they drop in to tell us what business we should be minding, and, in at least one case, as you so duly noted, without even bothering to read the post and follow on comments?
With that said, the good 1st Looie clearly isn’t serving in the same military that I did.
You agree his mother was an American citizen, right?
Dang! After reading bboyle’s stuff, and AW1′s response, my sympathies are shifting back in favor of the aspie-geek middle-aged second lieutenant.
I do think it was a very dumb thing for him to do, politically speaking. I think I’ve learned _some_ things, in all the years of my silly life.
“A clever way to get out of Iraq, seems to me.”
I am in agreement with Eric on this one. As I read, I couldn’t help but think of that lone voice of wisdom in the Gulf of Tonkin who said, “Is it too late to tell the CAG to ‘kiss my ass’, too?”
Maybe being a over-age Lt isn’t as gratifying as as it seemed it would be when you are used to being a ( an armed ?) consultant. I hope this conviction doesn’t cost him his gun permit… unless he really thinks jo’s are supposed to query the chain of command’s credentials in federal court while they are overseas- then, wow, I can’t believe he really thought this was a good idea– even if it works. After all, should he prevail it would be President Plugs Biden as CinC, right?
If there was a genuine problem on the part of the excitable subbie, I would expect a letter, resigning his commission, signed by him as of 05 Nov 08. That would be a demonstration of honourable intention.
Cheers
yes. retreat is always so much more honourable than digging in to hold a position.
Captain Heinrichs wins the thread with un-answerable argument.
Good Lord, do you liberal watchdogs just sit around at night, scanning the various and sundry blogs looking for a reason to set us evil conservatives straight? Don’t you have lives?
And in case you didn’t notice this, or it was lost in the roar of bullshi! passing between your ears, virtually all of us here think this guy did something very BAD. Now go back to sleep and dream your dreams of electric sheep.
Sure, it’s a big time loser for him but unlike all the other “refuseniks” you have profiled over the years we excoriate here, he hasn’t badmouthed his fellow warriors or the mission.
Or his country.
Sorta living by principle. That is worthy of some respect wouldn’t ya say?
b2
B2, while I agree with him on principle, I also agree it is a very bad thing for a commissioned officer in wartime or anytime to do. He wears the uniform, he swore the oath. If he felt this strongly, he should have resigned his commission.
All he’s going to do is make the officer corps of the Armed Services begin to look suspect.
Looked at KTK’s “Blog. (Mostly so you wouldn’t have to).
He describes himself: “Kevin T. Keith is an aging graduate student who, when he began his advanced education in bioethics, confidently expected to finish his PhD by the turn of the millenium, and still does. He has taught bioethics and done clinical ethics work at two medical schools, and until recently taught ethics and related subjects in the adult night-school program of City College, City University of New York. He hopes some day to become a real boy.”
He seems to be into “Medical Ethics” and the hippocratic oath, but is pro abortion. Not sure I’m smart enough to reconcile those two stances.
Front page had about 20 posts, all relatively long, good grammar, boring. Except for one post with 17 comments, he averages about 2 comments per post.
Show’s his ignorance here to things military with the statement “…no one can refuse an authoritative order from the President, whether or not they approve of it. In the case of unconstitutional orders, they would have a duty to resist….” First, I’m not sure what an “authoritative order” is. Is that stronger than an “order”? Second, constitutionality is not the test. Legality is.
So he comes here, pules mightily, and departs. Most people here do not agree with his perspective, but he is treated with respect and not called any names. Anyone want to guess what would happen if one of us tried to make a point on a Nutroot blog along the same vein?
Byron,
I agree with you 100% re officer corps and commission. I still am and always will be one of the corps..however it doesn’t take away from the fact that he is making a statement and it is his choice to do so. Don Quiote or no.
He probably is a loon. Officers aren’t exempt from loonery, trust me. Remember Jimmy Stewart and Harvey the 7 foot Rabbitt? Agree Nose?
Only reason I commented was the tone of some of the critique above seemed disproportional.
b2
Hey! You leave my 7 ft rabbit out of it!
Justthisguy:
Oh, man, “40-year-old second lieutenant”! I hadn’t read that. The boy is definitely an outlier. Definitely. Definitely.
Weird people should stick to Signal Corps, or Ordnance. I write as a weird person.
Oh, I knew something like this was coming. (Thanks, LT!) I’m a middle-aged 2LT (Infantry) myself. Stepped away from my first career after thirteen years to do this while I had the chance. So, yeah, I’m weird too.
This fellow is a loon, all right. And I couldn’t agree more with J.M. Heinrichs.
Update: 2nd U.S. soldier in Iraq challenges eligibility http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=89941
There are people who go through life like a square peg with 89 degree angles at the corners.
It’s been my misfortune to have to deal with three or four of them at different times in my life. They’re absolutely convinced that they’re right–and they ‘re a flaming pain in the backside, once they get the bit in their teeth. They then ride their particular hobbyhorse beyond all reason. The good 2d Looie is one of those individuals. I admire the man’s willingness to “join up” at age 40–but he desperately needs a good Sr. NCO to put some sense in him.
[...] Lex, commenting at the time only on the first report above, makes this excellent point: I’m no particular fan of the president’s agenda, but this smells too like the actions of those [...]
The story on Below the Beltway about military contributions for Obama is the poster child for “lies, damned lies and statistics.”
1. I’M PRETTY SURE OBAMA HAS PLENTY OF OTHER MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO, THAN MAKE UNDERCOVER RACISTS HAPPY BY BRINGING OUT HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
2. BEING A 2 TOUR MARINE VETERAN, (O2.26.2004-09.29.2004 & 09.09.2005-03.17.2006), I NEVER TURNED MY BACK ON ANY OF MY MARINES. NO MATTER THIS JR. OFFICERs STANCE, HE TURNED HIS BACK ON HIS SOLDIERS.
3. LAST TIME I CHECKED, OBAMA DIDN’T START THIS WAR, NOR CAN HE JUST PULL THE U.S. MILITARY OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST IN 3 MONTHS. THERE HAVE BEEN VARIOUS REASONS BROUGHT UP WHY WE ARE AT WAR IN IRAQ, BUT NEITHER STOPPED US FROM GOING OVER THERE.
4. IF WE ARE GOING TO SAY ONLY NATURAL BORN CITIZENS OF AMERICA CAN BE PRESIDENT, THEN WE HAVE NEVER HAD A PRESIDENT, EVER. THE ONLY NATURAL BORN CITIZENS ARE NATIVE AMERICANS. THE REST OF US ARE MERELY OFFSPRING OF IMMIGRANTS. SO NOW IT’S EASIER TO SAY THAT WE WILL NEVER ALLOW ANY OTHER RACE TO BECOME PRESIDENT, NO MATTER HOW GREAT THEIR IDEAS ARE OR MAY SEEM. NO MATTER WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY, THIS SHIT IS JUST A COVER UP & POLITICALLY CORRECT WAY OF SAYING “I AM NOT GOING TO DEFEND MY COUNTRY, BECAUSE WE HAVE A BLACK PRESIDENT.”
THANK YOU & HAVE A NICE DAY.
Dude, three words: Cap. Locks. Off.
Thanga.