Comments on: Outrage of the Day http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/03/17/outrage-of-the-day/ The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy! Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:54:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Michelle http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/03/17/outrage-of-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-342860 Michelle Thu, 19 Mar 2009 02:59:15 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=8456#comment-342860 I know this isn't completely on point but why does this conversation tend to remind me of the way the IMF or the World Bank often tells developing countries <i>exactly</i> how to restructure their economies (and be damned the consequences on the "little guy" there) if they want any money? And hey, if they don't like it, no one is actually <i>forcing </i>them to take the money, right? Now that's my definition of intrusive. /we now return to your regularly scheduled programming I know this isn’t completely on point but why does this conversation tend to remind me of the way the IMF or the World Bank often tells developing countries exactly how to restructure their economies (and be damned the consequences on the “little guy” there) if they want any money? And hey, if they don’t like it, no one is actually forcing them to take the money, right? Now that’s my definition of intrusive.

/we now return to your regularly scheduled programming

]]> By: daveg http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/03/17/outrage-of-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-342808 daveg Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:21:11 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=8456#comment-342808 "There are a lot of unemployed people with experience in complex financial transactions, accounting, and law that might lend a hand." Few of whom would be foolish enough to jump aboard a sinking ship, though, without remuneration commensurate with the risk and to offset the potential income of a less risky job. Hence bonuses and what you consider to be extortionate compensation. I suggest merely that the picture may be a bit more complex than you are in the position to know with any degree of certainty, your anecdotal evidence notwithstanding. “There are a lot of unemployed people with experience in complex financial transactions, accounting, and law that might lend a hand.”

Few of whom would be foolish enough to jump aboard a sinking ship, though, without remuneration commensurate with the risk and to offset the potential income of a less risky job.

Hence bonuses and what you consider to be extortionate compensation. I suggest merely that the picture may be a bit more complex than you are in the position to know with any degree of certainty, your anecdotal evidence notwithstanding.

]]> By: prowlerguy http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/03/17/outrage-of-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-342795 prowlerguy Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:51:08 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=8456#comment-342795 Just as Marie Antoinette hardly seems appropriate, I find that the mobs that executed "enemies of the revolution" are a pretty unsavory basis for commentary. Just as Marie Antoinette hardly seems appropriate, I find that the mobs that executed “enemies of the revolution” are a pretty unsavory basis for commentary.

]]> By: OldT6Flyer http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/03/17/outrage-of-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-342674 OldT6Flyer Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:30:55 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=8456#comment-342674 How you interpreted my comments as demonizing you is something I don't understand. In fact I wasn't demonizing anyone. What I was saying is that to think that the only people who can reform AIG are somehow the very people who lead it into its perilous state is a stretch at best. There are a lot of unemployed people with experience in complex financial transactions, accounting, and law that might lend a hand. But the argument over and again in support of at all these institutions is that no one else can do it.. In fact a former executive at AIG today was quoted as saying that many of the people that received bonuses at AIG are not the ones needed to fix the place since they are the brokers who sell the deals and, since they are no longer in the credit default swap business they hardly need brokers with that expertise. I am not demonizing bonuses for performance such as orderly workout of a business and can understand the need for that. If I am demonizing it is a culture that exists that is somehow disconnected to the very real suffering that a large segment of the population is experiencing and somehow seems to think they should somehow not feel any responsibility or accept the fact they might not deserve a 7 figure compensation package at the same time. Marie Antoinette as a role model hardly seems appropriate behavior from those in position of authority at this time. How you interpreted my comments as demonizing you is something I don’t understand. In fact I wasn’t demonizing anyone. What I was saying is that to think that the only people who can reform AIG are somehow the very people who lead it into its perilous state is a stretch at best. There are a lot of unemployed people with experience in complex financial transactions, accounting, and law that might lend a hand. But the argument over and again in support of at all these institutions is that no one else can do it.. In fact a former executive at AIG today was quoted as saying that many of the people that received bonuses at AIG are not the ones needed to fix the place since they are the brokers who sell the deals and, since they are no longer in the credit default swap business they hardly need brokers with that expertise.

I am not demonizing bonuses for performance such as orderly workout of a business and can understand the need for that. If I am demonizing it is a culture that exists that is somehow disconnected to the very real suffering that a large segment of the population is experiencing and somehow seems to think they should somehow not feel any responsibility or accept the fact they might not deserve a 7 figure compensation package at the same time. Marie Antoinette as a role model hardly seems appropriate behavior from those in position of authority at this time.

]]> By: prowlerguy http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/03/17/outrage-of-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-342656 prowlerguy Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:00:11 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=8456#comment-342656 And your class-warfare, envy-based argument is just as tired. And I'm not using it to justify any culture, anywhere. I am simply pointing out to you that your view of the world (and demanding equality of outcome) is simplistic, and your belicose berating of others who dare to disagree with you seem to qualify you perfectly for a job in the current administration. Demonizing people (like me) who have gotten bonuses for not bailing out (making it possible for the merger/shutdown to occur with a minimum of loss) won't win the argument. And once we get into the "why does HE/SHE get such a large salary?" game, it is just a small slide down the slopes to wage and price controls. Never mind that it has never worked, the lazy, self-entitled sloths of the world will ensure that it will get trotted out over and over again. Are you seriously suggesting that you can take anyone off the street and have them step into any complex job and be immediately productive? Even working at a Burger King requires some training. Sure, you could get a Joe off the street, but if all the institutional knowledge walks out the door, where will Joe go to get any answers? Maybe your jobs are so basic that Joe would be OK, but I haven't had a job like that since I was in high school. There were always processes unique to the organization, history and prior events, and special domain knowledge that you only got after being in the organization for a while. Bring in someone who doesn't have that, and put them in charge, and you get another Sculley at Apple. Or imagine taking an AF LtCol(Sel), and give him command of a USN squadron in the middle of a wartime deployment. And take away his XO, Dept Heads, and Goat Locker and replace them with USA trained officers and NCOs. Think anything might slip there? Or is that "talent" useless, too? Quite frankly, I could not care less if YOU "buy it" and I don't care what YOU are "sick of hearing." I know facts are not something that emos particularly like to entertain, but I am not inclined to avoid them for your comfort. And your class-warfare, envy-based argument is just as tired. And I’m not using it to justify any culture, anywhere. I am simply pointing out to you that your view of the world (and demanding equality of outcome) is simplistic, and your belicose berating of others who dare to disagree with you seem to qualify you perfectly for a job in the current administration.

Demonizing people (like me) who have gotten bonuses for not bailing out (making it possible for the merger/shutdown to occur with a minimum of loss) won’t win the argument. And once we get into the “why does HE/SHE get such a large salary?” game, it is just a small slide down the slopes to wage and price controls. Never mind that it has never worked, the lazy, self-entitled sloths of the world will ensure that it will get trotted out over and over again.

Are you seriously suggesting that you can take anyone off the street and have them step into any complex job and be immediately productive? Even working at a Burger King requires some training. Sure, you could get a Joe off the street, but if all the institutional knowledge walks out the door, where will Joe go to get any answers? Maybe your jobs are so basic that Joe would be OK, but I haven’t had a job like that since I was in high school. There were always processes unique to the organization, history and prior events, and special domain knowledge that you only got after being in the organization for a while.

Bring in someone who doesn’t have that, and put them in charge, and you get another Sculley at Apple. Or imagine taking an AF LtCol(Sel), and give him command of a USN squadron in the middle of a wartime deployment. And take away his XO, Dept Heads, and Goat Locker and replace them with USA trained officers and NCOs. Think anything might slip there? Or is that “talent” useless, too?

Quite frankly, I could not care less if YOU “buy it” and I don’t care what YOU are “sick of hearing.” I know facts are not something that emos particularly like to entertain, but I am not inclined to avoid them for your comfort.

]]> By: Marianne Matthews http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/03/17/outrage-of-the-day/comment-page-1/#comment-342579 Marianne Matthews Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:39:34 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=8456#comment-342579 Old TC6flyer and Lex ... It's unfashionable today in the NEA-run educational system, but those of us who remember our high school civics classes know about the "bills of attainder" being forbidden by the Constitution, so may I compliment both of you for your historical knowledge. If the corruptocrats in today's Congress attempt to ignore and get around this direct forbidding of such laws by the Constitution, I hope that the effort will fail. It's not that I approve of those AIG bonuses. They seem disgracefully high to me. But, unpleasant as it is to recognize, they are legal contracts. And if Congress successfully abrogates legal contracts, we are all of us at risk and chaos will result. That we cannot allow. Marianne Old TC6flyer and Lex … It’s unfashionable today in the NEA-run educational system, but those of us who remember our high school civics classes know about the “bills of attainder” being forbidden by the Constitution, so may I compliment both of you for your historical knowledge.

If the corruptocrats in today’s Congress attempt to ignore and get around this direct forbidding of such laws by the Constitution, I hope that the effort will fail. It’s not that I approve of those AIG bonuses. They seem disgracefully high to me. But, unpleasant as it is to recognize, they are legal contracts. And if Congress successfully abrogates legal contracts, we are all of us at risk and chaos will result. That we cannot allow.

Marianne

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