A former Navy sailor convicted of leaking details about ship movements and the best ways to attack them was sentenced Friday to the maximum 10 years in prison.
U.S. District Judge Mark Kravitz said Hassan Abu-Jihaad, of Phoenix, betrayed his country and endangered his fellow sailors.
“I cannot really overstate the seriousness of this crime,” Kravitz said. The leak “does constitute a fundamental betrayal of your country and of your oath. You endangered your colleagues, you endangered your vessel and other vessels and other sailors, and you endangered your country.”
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Ten Years37 comments to Ten Years |
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Why don’t they hang him?
I’d vote for another method, but I’d accept Babs way too.
If the Judge thinks the actions were so serious, so what’s with the ten years? Is there some statute which limits the sentencing? Snake? Anyone? Seems to me with treason the sky’s pretty much the limit–or it would be for THIS little Judge–if I WERE a Judge…..heh, heh, hee, hee.
Methinks we need to dig up Judge Roy Bean, pump him full of Red Bull and get some “Law West of the Pecos” kind of justice here….
I take it that means you’d vote for hanging too.
QM/
Roger F*****G THAT!!
(although SCOTTthe BADGER has the best plan)
The Royal Navy style, then. We have one square rigger in commission, the Constitution in Boston. Take her to sea, and muster the fleet to witness and hoist him to the yard arm. While he chokes to death he can think of why he’s there. Reading the sentence on the 1MC on each ship in the formation to the assembled ship’s company of each ship, then the Captain orders the Bosun to carry out the sentence who then orders the special detail to haul away. The body is then disposed of at an unknown position at sea.
Tradition is sometimes a very fulfilling way of doing things. To bad we became “enlightened” and did away with it. In reality, the left demonstrated how barbaric it is.
The British Navy (back in the day) had a punishment that his crime merits.
Flogging through the Fleet.
Of course, in this progressive society we cannot even properly punish a soldier who rolls a grenade into the tent where his immediate officers are planning the immediate future campaign.
Yes, and as an AF Officer (ex) I took special umbrage at that–he also got the ALO attached to the unit, A Maj. whose name escapes me–and BOY did the MSM keep THAT one under wraps! You had to go far and wide to follow that case–and NEVER ONCE a mention in the MSM that he was a Muslim (even if converted.)
What previous commenters said. With additional grumpiness, I would endorse Draka-style punishment, if y’all are fans of Stirling’s books. That would be cruel and unusual, so I reckon hanging is the worst we can do.
There is always the old keelhauling punishment, but I would reccomend keelraking. Keelhauling was from side to side, keelraking was fore and aft. Perhaps a quick keel rake of a NIMITZ that had just returned from a deployment in nice, warm, barnacle infested tropical waters, perhaps he could be keelraked during a transit of the Straits of Hormuz, to add a bit of poetic justice.
Bullet. Head. Trigger pull required.
Not enough time?
PLENTY of time. IF they’ll release him to general population.
The punishment definitely doesn’t fit the crime in this or other similar traitorous crimes.
The ugly little secret is that the gov’t usually will agree to a lighter punishment in return for a “complete” disclosure of the what, when, why, to whom answers. That’s why murderes like Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanson any of the J Walker gang, Pollard, only got jail time. So overall not much of a deterrent.
Not when you look at the other side during the Soviet times when the guys caught working for us usually met their demise with a Tokarev at the back of the head in Lubyanka.
Keel hauling too easy…
The exception to that was for the GRU. A defector writing under the psedonym of Victor Suvarov told of his initial induction into the GRU. The man who took him in pointed to the stack for the crematorium and was told all GRU officer leave through that. He was then shown a film where someone was caught working for us or some other enemy of the SU. He was wired to one of the steel litters they used for cremation and then shoved into the furnace alive. One way or the other, that’s how you left the GRU. That would be a satisfactory end for the miscreant named above, however.
Of course Lubyanka was owned by the KGB not the GRU. I’m sure they ahd their own ways of dealing with traitors, possibly as gruesome as the GRU’s method.
My first post was a sort of knee jerk reaction. Now that I have had a few hours time to think about it, what is up with giving a traitor 10 years?
What is going on here?
Does anyone think that ten years will deter another traitor from putting our sailors at risk? This seems to me a most heinous crime…
WHY DON’T WE HANG HIM???
I can guess what his new name in the joint will be…Bitch. Sucks to be you, I’m really sorry…NOT! Just think, ten years with the likes of the Aryan Nation, you’ll never have to worry about being constipated again.
G. Gordon, a bullet would be a mercy. This person does not deserve mercy.
Hanging. Drowning him in a hog waste lagoon comes to mind, though.
Babs,
You let time moderate what was an appropriate initial reaction. Hanging without further discussion and consideration was the appropriate response.
Likely he’ll receive a Presidential Pardon, anyway, for, uhhhhh, peace.
Sometimes, I weep for how soft we’ve become as a country.
I don’t get it.
Traitors Aldrich Ames – CIA, Robert Hanssen – FBI, both recieved life sentences (they deserve worse). and this guy gets ten years. What kind of precedent does that set?
Hang ‘em then have him drawn and quartered. That’s the way they used to do it.
Wilco/
Besides drawn and quartered, the British also used to stuff ‘em in the mouth’s of cannon and blow ‘em all to hell–at least that’s how my history of the Royal Suffolk Rgt. reads–did it to mutineers on operations in Indonesia, IIRC.
Given the era of 11 Trillion dollar budget defecits, we can return to an old idea of mine. Traitors, murderers, others on Death Row, we give PBS exclusive rights to televise the execution and we all get to call in a pledge for the method of execution.
I’d pledge $40 for the firing squad, Snake would pledge $50 for keelhauling, and after it’s all said and done the top participants get the option of pulling the switch, firing the rifle, or whatever suits the situation.
I thought it an outstanding idea! I’d no longer have to listen to 15-minute interruptions of Car Talk about how much they need my money, and we’d have a chance to once again put on public display the consequences of treason, murder, etc…
Used to be, if there was a hanging to be done folks rode in from miles around (12 miles being a half-day ride on a horse with buggy), set up in the town square for a picnic lunch, and the hanging itself was used as an example, especially to the kids, of why lying and murdering and theft were not to be done. The twitching of the hanged added to the seriousness of the lecture, certain to give a kid nightmares for months.
So I wrote my congressman about my idea. When he was defeated I wrote my congress-woman.
Haven’t heard a thing from either.
Imagine that.
– Max
Max/
Those long winter nights obviously leave you with far too much contemplative time on your hands for the likes of your Congressional representatives. I look for them to direct the Ag extension agent out your way soon to suggest improved farming techniques the better to occupy your time.
OTH, there is always the time-honored
“silence is consent” standard for you to work from….
Virgil, you’ve not heard the whole story.
The county agent sent me forms, for crop insurance and acreage planting details and such, which I threw in the burn barrel (we still have those) and never thought twice about.
About 2 years later I got a letter with all the forms filled out and an X where I had to sign. To be considered a farmer by the USDA. I figured if he went through all that work to fill them out for me I might as well sign.
Got a check from the USDA for $18. Farm subsidy. I’m thinking great, now Mom can have that operation.
Kind of wish they’d forget about me, it costs me more in time and effort than their check is worth.
Which, come to think of it, I never cashed it. Wasn’t worth the bother.
– Max
Rope, tree, horse. Vigilante style. 3-7-77
The Plank. Nautical, traditional, effective. Postion: L 0.00 Lo 0.00
Why has no one mentioned the favorite Muslim punishment of beheading? Muslims have even imported that particular time-honored punishment to the U.S., in this case applied to a reluctant wife who wanted a divorce from her husband. Guess her husband figured it’s better than paying alimony.
But seriously, folks … I lean toward keelhauling on one of our carriers, as Scott the Badger recommends. It’s effective, it’s classic, and gives the offender time to contemplate his sins before he dies, since carriers are pretty big around. Keelraking I had never heard of before. It has its advantages, as “it makes assurance doubly sure” as the quote goes. Most ships are longer than they are wide … except for coracles, of course, and they’re boats, not ships.
Whatever the choice, let’s rid the world of him. And quickly.
Marianne
Unfortunately, you can blame Congress for not allowing us to hang this bastard. Under the UCMJ, the death penalty for treason can only be invoked during a time of declared war, and since Congress refuses to actually man up and declare a state of war exists, then we have to go with the lesser punishment.
Personally, I suspect that the 10 years bit is the MINIMUM he will serve. Once he gets into the system, then the CO’s can find all sorts of infractions by him to extend his stay with. Hopefully, he’ll get put into the general population and his crimes made mention of. After that, I’d imagine he won’t be around for too very long.
respects,
Tim, the answer to your question is here. It is less a question of manning-up than stupid Congresscritter tricks.
As for why only 10 years, following some of the linked articles about this, I gather he was charged with “disclosing classified national defense information.” In other words, something less than full treason.
And for those who didn’t read any of the news articles, 10 years was repeatedly cited as the “maximum possible sentance” for the charge he faced.
Yes, that sucks, but I seriously doubt they could have convicted him of treason, based on the definition of the Constitution. We have to use the laws in place, not the laws we’d like to see.
You’re right, Casey, it DOES suck, I’m thinkin’ maybe we’d better find Mr. Peabody’s Wayback machine and get back to the days when “Let’s give him a fair trial before we hang him!” was more the standard. …..(at least in this case)
Just sayin’….
virgil, at one level I am soooo in agreement with you. The turd in question deserves far more than 10 years (speaking from an emotional POV). I rather enjoy the suggestion of keelhauling mentioned above; I would even be nice enough to let them keelhaul the bastiche under the ship he was serving in at the time. It’s a lot smaller, so that has to be more merciful, right?
Quartermaster, while I (again) agree with your emotional response, can a real-world lawyer, in a real-world situation, make the case that the miserable SOB in question fulfilled the definition in Article 3, Section 3 of the Constitution? Recall that “aid” is generally defined as active participation in an act of war against the United States. All (yes, I know, “all”) he did was publish movements of a specific fleet unit. If they did not attack that unit, then by definition he did not provide aid.
As for “comfort,” the bottom-feeder in question (to my knowledge) did not provide any sort of protection or shelter to AQ or affiliates, nor did he directly contribute (via money or munitions) to their operations. No direct support, no comfort.
What I respectfully request of the regulars here is the rational differentiation between our reaction of emotion; “this bastiche is a miserable traitor!” with which I agree; and our reaction of law; “this man must be charged with recognizable violation of the statues of the USA.”
Sometimes the punishment doesn’t fit the crime.
Well, life is unfair.
Liberals like to bitch about “social injustice” when poor people aren’t as successful as (lucky) rich people. One may point out the converse complaint where conservatives complain about “social injustice” wherein criminals get “lucky;” that is, they do not suffer a just fate in the same way liberals believe that poor people do not suffer a just fate.
The key is here is the rule of law; something most of the world (including, in my opinion, most of Europe) with which is not familiar.
Alas, the rule of law includes the requirement that any given offense be adjudged according the statutes which exist at the time of the offense, not to mention that the accused must be treated justly. That is to say he must be charged with evidence gathered in a legal way, accused and tried according to the charges legally presented, then punished (if adjudged guilty) according to the specific statue in question.
I repeat: I (emotionally) agree that perp in question is a worthless turd. Yet we still must accord him the civil and legal rights recognized throughout the entire English-speaking world. If we don’t, we’re just as bad as those murdering bastiches in Tehran.
Very well said, Casey. We must assume that the prosecuting attorney did not believe his case strong enough to go for the full treason charge and instead fell back on a lesser charge he or she was certain would be upheld and garner punishment.
Which is good, in many respects. It prevents the prosecution from shooting for the moon by default when expectations are known, it also ensures that taxpayer money is spent on convictions rather than show trials where the results will be overturned upon later inspection.
It also means I’ve 10 years to plot, plan and otherwise figure out a way to mess with this man once he gets out. Which, had he walked free, would have seriously cramped my schedule. I mean, I’m swamped! I’m in the data center tomorrow, there’s the conference calls from 0800 until 1100 on Tuesday, Wednesday is no good, I’m up late on Thursday with applying scheduled changes and Friday? Well, who wants to work late on Friday?
No, 10 years is good. I can probably schedule that far in advance and all I want to do is beat the crap out of him (silly emotional response).
10 more years for the prosecution to firm up any holes in their case, perhaps have new cases that link this guy to other crimes?
Well, I’d rather him behind bars for 10 years on what we had than walking free on what we wanted.
Pretty sure that’s what the prosecution was thinking too.
– Max
I think one can make a case that he gave aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States. That would take care of the constitutional definition of treason.
But, of course, we don’t WANT to, QM, “quelle horreur,” the DEATH PENALTY? What would all the “enlightened” in Europe and the rest of the world think? We have our international reputation to think of–as Obama reminds us at every occasion. What are you thinking, you knuckle-dragging hold-over Bu$Hitler cowboy?
Speaking of British traditions, here’s an actual sentence handed out by a judge:
“You are to be drawn on hurdles to the place of execution, where you are to be hanged by the neck, but not until you are dead; for, while you are still living your bodies are to be taken down, your bowels torn out and burned before your faces, your heads then cut off, and your bodies divided into four quarters, and your heads and quarters to be then at the King’s disposal; and may the Almighty God have mercy on your souls.”
Ah, the Good Ol’ Days.
Mike/
We’ve GOT to commandeer Mr. Peabody’s Wayback Machine to go and get THAT GUY and bring him back!
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