I served at NAS Key West in the early 90s, and there really was no better place to fly, and fight. With huge swathes of open ocean, supersonic, instrumented ranges over the Bay of Florida a fighter pilot could handle his machine – and learn his trade – the way his creator had meant him to.
We occasionally got noise complaints. A four-ship of F-14s bugging east from a pack of hungry Vipers could rattle the windows in back in town when the environmental conditions were just right, even if they were the prescribed 30 NM or more offshore.
These days a new source of noise pollution has cropped up, however: The SuperBug.
Some call it the sound of freedom. Others call it sound pollution. There’s no denying the roar of the F-A/18 Super Hornets that train at the Navy’s Boca Chica Airfield are loud — louder than other jets that have flown at the unique base in the lower Keys.
”Bringing in the Super Hornets was like turning a quiet café into a heavy metal bar,” Monroe County Commissioner Kim Wigington said.
It’s become such a problem that the Monroe County Board of Commissioners unanimously approved a resolution last month requesting Naval Air Station Key West to ”immediately cease and desist” flying the Super Hornets until comprehensive noise studies can be conducted.
”It’s much more than annoying,” said Wigington, who lives on nearby Stock Island in a home that she says has registered noise levels of 120 decibels, well past the 85 decibels that can cause hearing loss.
I’m not unsympathetic to the concerns of the local citizenry, the Super Hornet is a loud machine, especially on take-off in full grunt. And Key West had always been a good neighbor to the Navy, at least while I was there. I’m sure that the Navy will do what it can to minimize its noise signature.
But if the locals think it’s bad now, wait until they get a load of these guys.
Nothing like understatement. (from the link)
I can’t believe a Super Hornet is more nosiy than an A-6 or aWhale or a Viggie was back in the day.
The handwriting is almost on the wall. Heck we can make it so youse can’t see ‘em, why can’t we makes it so youse don’t hear ‘em?
New NavAir PMA – Hush Kits for all my friends! Either that or PMA 263 is licking their chops. Drones don’t need no stinkin’ practice.
Not quite true. UAV pilots need to fly for qualifications. You can’t simulate everything.
But the F-35 might just make BAMS basing a lot easier. It might be unmanned, but it’ll be a lot quieter.
Hard to feel sorry for folks that build a house under an airport traffic pattern and then complain about the noise.
….and it’s hard to feel sorry for idiots who can’t get their facts straight; this is like buying a house next to a quiet cafe and then having the owner convert it to a biker bar.
Skip:
Having had the benefit of living near Fentress “in the day” (by choice and not under the pattern) and observing at close quarters the variety of fauna that populated our airwings in the 80’s and 90’s compared with a recent trip back to those digs and catching a couple of Super Hornets in the pattern at Oceana, I must concur with the above – the Super Bug is louder than the Intruder/Prowler (previous title holder) in the pattern.
Even the Tomcats were less bothersome and as a result, were allowed to fly “later” into the evening (Intruders had to be done by 2200). Of course, you well recall who was left holding the bag in the 0200-dawn period :/
- SJS
The apparent loudness of the F-35 was the subject of a front-page story in the local rag a few years ago, when the AF was considering Davis-Monthan as a possible base for the JSF. Heck, the NIMBY’s around here get worked up regularly about the sound of A-10’s flying over, one of the quietest jet-powered aircraft on earth, so I imagine the F-35 would cause coronaries all over town.
Pitts/
Looks like the AF will have to re-open the most isolated base in America–old WWII Wendover AFB in Utah. Oh joy to those who would be stationed there–was so isolated they used it to stand-up and train the B-29 Wing that dropped the atomic bomb. Either that or base every F-35 in the world at Area 51 at Tonopah and Groom Lake.
Way back in the late 60’s I was a young pup working at a law firm in the old Bank of America building in downtown San Diego. My office window faced north (and in that old building you could even open the windows!). The glide slope for Lindbergh Field went right by the old El Cortez hotel–and liking airplanes as I do I spent some time watching the airliners come in for a landing. One afternoon a hell of a racket came through the window–I looked up to see an A-6 Intruder coming in for a landing at Lindbergh. Noisiest airplane I’d ever heard.
Mike Myers/
If I remember correctly from the one time I ever took off commercially from Lindbergh on a foggy Dec. morn in 1966 (never landed there) you were probably looking DOWN or on eye level with some of those aircraft, eh?
Yes, you’re remembering correctly, VX.
They still do.
SJS,
Is it still true that babies use the sound of the Hummer to fall asleep to?
-JC
Not just babies (or babes)…the departure from Fentress back to Norfolk was right over our house (none of us minded). Amazing how one can be asleep and count a/c passing overhead: “one, two…where’s dash three…???” which was usually followed by a quick call to Maint Control.
- SJS
When I was at NCO school at Ft. Huachuca, AZ, I called a friend of mine (same unit) who was home on leave in Tucson.
Every couple minutes our conversation would be interrupted by an incredibly loud roar over the phone from his end. When I asked what that was, he said it was F-16s at Davis-Mothan – his parents lived under the approach/departure. He didn’t even notice them anymore.
OTOH, my wife, after a week in the Nellis AFB guesthouse discovered that she could learn to sleep through the 0600 launch of F15s and F22s…
There are occasionally fast jets at DM, when the nearby IAP is having it’s runway surfaced or when an exercise in on, (or transient traffic stopping for gas), but the only planes permanently based there are A-10’s and C-130’s, and many locals complain about them regularly, even if they don’t live off the departure ends. Heck, the base received a flurry of complaints when the Blue Angels were practicing their show here two years ago, and that was early afternoon. I wouldn’t want to be the base PAO if they started basing F-35’s here.
Ok, I’ll play the dumb guy here; just why is the Super Hornet that loud, and why is the F-35 louder? Especially considering that the single-engine -35 is louder than the two-engine F-15?
Are the newer engines just that more powerful, or are there other design or engineering considerations which produced more noise as a side effect of some other more-effective trait?
I have the same rule of thumb about bases as I do about shooting ranges.
Was the base there before you? If so, then you moved into the noise, should have done some due diligence first, huh?
I would wild-ass-guess that the newer engines have higher exhaust velocities than the old ones, and that makes it louder. Yeah, that’s it…
Well that’s a dumb rule of thumb. Did you read the article? It’s one thing to accept existing noise levels but they’re saying the F-35 is TWICE as loud on takeoff. How would you feel if you’ve spent a lot of money insulating your house to existing noise levels and then the operator of the airfield changes the goalposts? The simple reality is that airfields such as Key West should be relocated to more isolated areas. For one thing the land value alone would help pay for some these modern aircraft that are becoming increasingly unaffordable.
Hey, Rodney, if the NAS Key West were any further outside the US, it would be in FREAKIN’ CUBA.
/rant off
What?!? Land value?
Dude, you need to get your priorities straight. Move Key West, move Oceana, move El Toro…Oh wait, they already closed El Toro.
Seems somebody’s always ready to move the base rather than themselves, who came after the base.
As for value: As compared to what? Force readiness? No comparison, bucko…
Huh? I get the part about moving into a house in the flightpath, we understand and accept that, but that completely ignores the fact that the noise is now TWICE as loud. Why must you persist in ignoring that?
There’s a BIG difference between simply hearing the older jets going overhead and the FA-18’s vibrating your entire house while all conversation and other activity comes to crashing halt waiting for the noise assault to stop….dozens of times some days. Sometimes it seems windows are about to crack from the sound. We didn’t sign up for THAT.
Please cease and desist to make us sound like a bunch of spoiled ninnys….we’re just normal people trying to maintain a reasonable level of peace and quiet in our homes. Don’t be so hateful, OK?
The neighbors just returned from a month vacation down in Key West and they said this topic was all the rage. I’m sure the folks up in Whidbey will have similar issues as the Growlers arrive.
As for the noise, from the TAO seat under the flight deck I could tell the difference between the different jets on launch and recovery. The Super Hornets were loudest, but at least when they caught the wire they didn’t bounce the cable attachment right above my head like the C-models. I’m trying to remember if the XO laughed or kicked me in the arse when I asked for reduced duty hours because of the noise. Probably both.
They NIMBY need to remember that there is a cost in many ways other than dollars to their freedom….they might prefer keeping the Super Hornet to having these using their airspace:
http://aircraft-wallpapers.blogspot.com/2008/01/aircraft-wallpapers-16-mig-29.html
Lex:
Well in this more sensitive day and age the answer that was given around Whidbey in the late 80’s would no longer be acceptable: First, two bumper stickers started showing up around town: “Jet Noise — The Sound of Freedom,” and the unofficial “See the Jets? Hear the Noise? Get Used to It!” Then all paper money that was used on base was marked, IIRC, with a bright highlighter. After about a week or two either COMMATVAQPAC or maybe the base CO went to Rotary, Kiwanis, etc. and pointed out all the “Navy” money floating around town. And asked how much of it would be there if those of a more NIMBY attitude had their way.
Back in career 1.0 I got to field a lot of calls at NAS North Island anytime the Stoofs, Hummers and then the Hoovers did night FCLP’s. Most of those complaining were, you guessed it, retired airdales! I’m guessing if you follow the money at EYW, you’ll find a real estate developer.
@ “Rodney”: “airfields such as Key West should be relocated to more isolated areas.” Uh, look at a chart; the arse-end of an island chain in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico is what we refer to as “isolated.”
VR,
Comjam
Comjam
Well put. Next thing south – Cu-BAH! Hey now there is an idea – why not practice air-air and FCLP at Gitmo? Since we’re gonna close the “gulag”, we need another dose of American nose-thumbing. Nothing better than the sound of sweet JP-5 turned into NOISE! Nah, on 2nd thought we don’t need another Mariel boatlift of noise-refugees heading north. Drones – buy more drones.
Bring back Roosie Roads!
Well. We live on Key Haven, just across U.S. 1 from Stock Island and about 5 miles from NASKW. Been here nigh onto 10 years. ‘Struth, the neighbor’s emergency generator is a darn sight more annoying than the Hornets … to my mind at least. ‘Course, I spent a goodly amount of time next to the flight line at Tan Son Nhut and under the approaches to McChord. Might be innured to the sound of freedom.
Comjam – there is virtually no development down here – all the buildable land already is. I suspect that the Hospitality Industry is worried about our visitors taking exception to the disruption of their idylls: “Key West is a quaint little drinking town with a fishing problem.”
I’ll just leave my reply here and get ready for the incoming. By isolated in my earlier post I was meaning more in terms of locating airbases on land people don’t want to live on. On a side note I also question the benefits of a “stealth” fighter the F-35 that’s making twice the noise on military power. (and yes I know it will ingress to a target faster than it can be heard) but once it gets there it’s got to slow down to do anything and then get back out after having woken everyone 50 or so miles either side of its flight path. Also and my point still stands is the uncomfortable fact that our federal budget is being funded by loans from China. Key West is prime real estate and as mike points out there aint no new land to build on.
Rodney, there’s never going to be any place in CONUS that’s ‘isolated’ enough for somebody not to squawk about noise or land value. Liz’ comment about Holloman is a good case in point. You can’t get any further away from ‘civilization’ than at Holloman. No offense intended, Liz.
K-Bay in Hawaii is another. The Marines moved their tactical jets to the mainland mostly because of the noise complaints about the F-18’s. (We had a few complaints in the ’70’s about F-4’s, but frab ‘em) Even across the bay from a sparsely populated area there were complaints of ‘Too noisy. Too noisy!’
Frankly, I’m surprised that Miramar is able to stay operational with the massive buildup going on around it, approach corridor notwithstanding. Mira Mesa ain’t a two horse town anymore…
The problem Rod, is ANYWHERE you build (If you build it,they will come) will end up with that issue. Because all those military pukes require things like support and the camp followers will do things like build bars, and the contractors will build houses to support the bars, then the gas stations, grocery stores, hardware stores, schools, hospitals, banks, malls, 7-11s, Walmart, ad. infinitum will build up around the base. Soon you have an isolated post that looks like oh, say Key West or NAS Oceana. Rinse. Repeat.
My dad was a middie in the 40’s and tells me stories of Virginia Beach (when there used to be a real beach there) and he recollects there wasn’t much there but the tourist traps and support. The place used to close up in the winter. Shoot, when I was there in the 70’s the place still had a LOT of open land. Now? Heh. “Princess Anne County” became all “Virginia Beach” because there no longer was unincorporated land to be called a county….. and that happened while I was there in the 70’s… And the only buildable land left is one master jet base with all those noisy airplanes. A prime developer target.
So my non-P.C. comment to those noise complainer’s? EF ‘em.
That, and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if a developer had a notion to get NAS Key West closed and redeveloped as housing.
Politicians wanted the F22 here at Holloman, and really pushed for it even before the environmental impact assessment went through. Now that they’re here, the same politicians are getting noise complaints and calling asking “what’s going on?” Um, they’re training, idiots. They don’t just sit on the ground and go up for the yearly airshow.
This will be a real problem with the JSF.
I have F-15s taking off in full grunt every two hours, they are a little bit louder than the E-A6B’s. The C-5’s and IL-76’s are pretty loud as are the Anatov 123’s. Hardly ever hear the C-130’s and A-10’s or the drones. The worst part is when the Helicopters over fly my hooch at about 100 ft while I’m sleeping. It’s better than RCT San Diego though. Do they even have Boot camp at San Diego anymore?
As an Air Force Brat grew up hearing all types of aircraft. Far and away the loudest were B-52’s when they scrambled and noise abatement procedures were not in effect.
I am Navy through and through (worked on the Mighty War Hoover) – the loudest anything with wings on it that I ever heard was the B-1. It remains at least to me, one of the sweetest looking aircraft ever made as well.
BT: Jimmy T sends.
Here is a funny – a little news blurb about the old site of NAS Cecil Field which used to be a really nice place to fly all those noisy jets (it was a “Master Jet Base” when that really meant something) but was BRACKed.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=5dafadbd-fa56-4985-9648-1c89bdd2d93d&
The jist of this is that Cecil Field can become a Spaceport for reusable spacecraft that launch “horizontally”. Yeah, there you go, the next generation space shuttle launching from Cecil Field – having had some 15 years of housing growth around it. NIMBY’s could not be reached for comment.
BT: Jimmy T sends.