Comments on: Empire’s End. No, Really.

By: Albany Rifles

Albany Rifles — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:56:04 +0000

If you want a better example of an outstanding World War II British general, then look to Bill Slim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Slim,_1st_Viscount_Slim

By: XBradTC

XBradTC — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:17:50 +0000

Skippy, you and I will continue to disagree on the prudence of our decision to invade Iraq. I don’t think this thread is the place to discuss that, but will clarify that I didn’t argue that it exacerbates the security problems” for the UK[US] around the world.” but rather that there was no real potential upside for the British. The only benefit to them was to remain in good standing with us, which they could have maintained through other means.

By: G-man

G-man — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:56:53 +0000

I was in London during the July 05 islamic terrorist bombings, oh excuse my non_PC label, the London “man-made disaster”, and the immediate attitude was vastly different from the stoicism I’ve read about when they suffered the Blitz. All of my UK employees had the attitude of “if we leave them alone, they will leave us alone”. Certainly can’t run an Empire like that. Right then and there I felt that within 25 years the UK would be predominantly muslim-maybe not in population but in its effects throughout society and its cultural impact.

And WRT Monty, Sir Harold Alexander deserves much of the praise given to Monty for the 1942 desert campaign success.

By: Flatlander

Flatlander — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:24:25 +0000

I think the comparisons to WWII Montgomery are not particularly helpful; Montgomery won in North Africa when nobody else could; his operation Market-Garden in 1944 was if anything too aggressive rather than too cautious. And the Brits were at the tip of the spear in that one. Different time, different war, different politics.

In Iraq, the Brits were willing to go with us but they were not willing to take any risks. And they were ready to lose – either because they lacked capability or will, or both. At least the Germans in Afghanistan are up front about it – they say, we’ll go but don’t put us in a combat role. That’s the unfortunate reality of where the Brits really are. They’d like to help, but they don’t have the will to fight. Nothing illustrates it better than the boat full of Royal Navy Marines that surrendered to the Iranians rather than risk a firefight. It’s hard to fathom, but that’s what they’ve become.

By: Skippy-san

Skippy-san — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:45:13 +0000

What could they gain from Iraq? Nothing.

Same statement can be applied to us.

All the British bashing ignores the political reality at home in Britain-the war was considerably more unpopular there than it was in the US and since 2004 it was not exactly popular in the US either. Its seems clear that British military leadership recognized a lot earlier the lesson we still have not learned, “the presence of British [US]troops in Iraq “exacerbates the security problems” for the UK[US] around the world.”

By: STEVEC

STEVEC — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 06:03:39 +0000

They might have seen it as a good training exercise for things to come on their home turf. Particularly probable if they don’t show some gumption.