You’ll turn your ankle.
It’d be hard not to, when they’re rolling around all over the deck.
31 AUG 09: Naval Academy Preparatory School CO relieved due to “loss of confidence” in his ability to command. The “Naval Academy’s diversity officer and NAPS liaison officer… has temporarily assumed duties as NAPS’s commanding officer.”
28 AUG 09: ATGLANT CO relieved for loss of confidence.
21 AUG 09: CO of Bangor Nuclear Weapons Facility relieved. The cause?
“Loss of confidence.”
It has always been a stern service, but three otherwise unrelated captains explosively jettisoning their command pins in a ten day period might just be a record.
It’d be interesting to know the back stories involved here, but for the privacy of those involved – and, just as often, the reputation of the service - the reason for a “loss of confidence” relief without any obvious precipitating event are usually closely held secrets.
Inquiring minds wonder: Is there a top-down house-cleaning going on, or is this just one of those strange coincidences? And if the former, what are the community representatives doing at the major command screen board these days?
Update: Speaking of standards, I had an interesting email exchange a week or two back with a friend who was hoping to help a relative get into a Marine Corps commissioning program. Unfortunately the young man had a brush with the law several years back. It was one of those “pulled over speeding, car searched, passenger’s got a hash pipe” sorts of things. Tickets for all my friends, although nobody got arrested. Definitely the kind of thing that would have turned up on the entering national agency check required for a security clearance.
The Marine Corps recruiter told him that such a thing was disqualifying for an officer commissioning program in any of the services. Could that really be true? my friend asked.
I think it is, I answered. Although not a recruiter, it’s my understanding that pre-service drug use by an officer candidate is not waiverable.
Funny, he replied. Under that standard, at least two of our last three presidents and commanders-in-chief would be ineligible to serve as ensigns or second lieutenants in the US military. Maybe all three.
Yeah, I replied. Funny.
I dunno, Lex. Think you might agree that in this age the word gets out and around. Not saying that’s always a good thing. Between Navy Times, local papers, blogs, etc. there’s a lot more info about this stuff than we used to get. Overstaing the obvious, usually a couple of LoC categories: actions/inactions associated with official duties and those, uhhhh….after hours. And they all count. Cannot even imagine the MCSB head/heart/a$$ aches going on.
There’s been quite an excess of flag officer recently. perhaps it’s natural selection?
We have fewer than 300 commands available, and almost 500 O-7 and up. Sumpin’s gotta give.
Thinning the herd of up and comers….Make sure a reason to keep the guys with big JG stripes around…you know…no one suited to take their place…
/cynical
So once again, CAPTs are expendable.
When’s the last time a flag got relieved? You can’t tell me that suddenly pinning on a star means they are beyond reproach.
During my experience in recruiting, I found it amazing at how many kids had convictions for just such offenses. They were all unsuspecting chauffeurs. The ones who admitted that it was theirs had all smoked marijuana just once, and had the terrible misfortune of being caught that one time.
As far as officer programs, I am living proof that one can get a waiver for self-admitted youthful indiscretions. Probably not for a conviction though.
Indiscretions and stupidity used to be safely brushed under the rug if nobody in authority knew about it and nobody got hurt. These days? Everybody has a camera, and if YouTube won’t show it somebody else will. Google will ensure it’s easily located.
I’d feel more sorry for the kids today if they weren’t the ones driving this change.
– Max
Probably just a coincidental alignment of the stars (couldn’t resist) and no grand plot, but six’ll get ya ten that we can ALL guess why the “Diversity” officer would be taking over the Prep School–especially after the most recent pronouncements on diversity as msn #1 at Annapolis.
In the Soviet Union, it was the commissars who outranked the captains.
In the United States, it is now the diversity officers.
Curious – what exactly does a “diversity officer” do?
I suspect the job description has been copied from that of the commisar
At a guess, classifies people based upon any visible trait or anything else they may admit to, then ranks the need for that trait. As an example, being the only black Jewish Congolese cannibal in the prep school is about as diverse as you can be. White guy who scored 1600 on his SAT? More rare, perhaps, but not nearly as diverse.
Ya know, that would be a great job to have, just to mess with people. “Sorry, your high school GPA was over 2.0, which makes you part of nearly half the incoming class. I’m afraid we’ve no room for you here. You’re too boring. Unless you’ve Latvian ancestry? No? Sorry, goodbye, tell the Senator I appreciate his efforts on your behalf.
Next!
Now then, you’re a high school dropout with two years of reform school to your credit, and you’ve done three months in solitary confinement. You’re *just* the sort of chap we need around here to shake up the works, make people appreciate just what differentiates us that makes us all unique. GPA 0.0, all classes uncompleted… Splendid! There’s nobody else with such a low score! We can offer a full four-year scholarship if you’re interested. Of course, your parents would have to sign and… No parents? Orphan, you say? With a shovel no less? And they’ve never been found! Well, that’s the kind of can-do spirit and get-the-job-done work ethic we’re after here!”
I can see either John Cleese or Bob Newhart doing this in a comedy act. I’d pay money to see it if it would shame the forces back to an interest in merit.
– Max
I had a misdemeanor “possession of alcohol as a minor,” and I freely admitted prior marijuana usage (experimental, not more than ten times, never bought sold, or held: all in the statement). It’s never caused me a lick of trouble. My nephew had a youthful misdemeanor for trespass. His recruiter said to leave it out. While his ship was in Singapore they came for him and tossed him out with an OTH, IIRC. Detailer got his number, though.
Out of curiosity, aren’t misdemeanors while a juvenile wiped from the record upon attaining the age of majority? And aren’t those records sealed? I was under the impression that only felonies as a youth followed you into adulthood.
Because if that’s not the case, juvenile records would have to be kept and made available for search. So one might be able to find the adult who had a youthful indiscretion some years ago. Like that 14 year-old punk who shot me back in ’94 and left the courthouse with his parents before I finished giving my statement? I could find who he was and where he lives now. I could find him, and ask him if he ever learned how to aim.
My, but that would be an interesting day. Be interesting to find if he made something of himself, and if the barrel of a 12ga made an impression upon his little .22-toting ass.
My luck he’s an investment banker pulling $32 million per year and I saved him from a life of dealing crank and cleaning the grease traps. Perhaps it’s better for me if I can’t know.
– Max
“I could find out who he was and where he lives now.”
Sort of like the way I’m keeping track of all the now retired O-6s that tried to Courts-martial me (None of ‘em made flag-rank–teach ‘em to mess with ME.) so when I find out I have inoperable terminal cancer I can cash in all my frequent-flyer miles and track ‘em down. Mowing the front lawn down in Sarasota they’ll never hear me coming up behind ‘em over the sound of the engine as I put a 9mm in behind their ear…
(‘Course most of ‘em have died of old age by now…and looks like I’m just too damn healthy….)
And yes, Max, considering the state of Justice in this world today, perhaps it’s just as well you don’t know…ever. Save a LOT of $ on psychotherapy and/or anger management classes–or attnys fees to defend against that murder indictment.
Virgil, I wasn’t worried about the psychotherapy or anger management classes. I was more worried about the bar bill if the little SOB now had a cabinet appointment.
Ya, some times it’s better not to know.
– Max
Juvie records are kept. But they are sealed. In regards to enlistment, however, they are available. Each applicant for enlistment signs a waiver authorizing release of adult and juvie records. Recruiters run police checks on every place an applicant has lived, worked, or attended school for the last three years, as well as any place they’ve ever had any infractions or arrests.
Any interaction with the police, and the recruiter secures court documents showing the disposition of the case.
Generally, one or two misdemeanors (other than drug) are no problem, provided the case is fully disposed of, ie, no probation, parole, conditional discharge, etc. All drug cases are treated by the Army as a felony, and as such would require a waiver for enlistment.
You beat me to it Brad. My Son found out the hard way when he was going in the Army Reserve back in the late 90s. It’s a funny story of how dumb kids can be at times…
He and some friends were out late in Marietta, OH. After midnite type late. We all know nothing good happens to an older boy when out after midnite, right?
He and some friends were getting thirsty, and no one had change. So they agreed to tip a Coke machine to get a free drink. Two went out as pickets, and my son and another were going to tip the machine. One of the pickets sights a cop. Instead of acting nonchalant, he runs, not away, but towards the rest of the group. Mr. Cop collars all four.
Now, before we left the farm in Tennessee to move to Ohio I told my son that if he has occasion to get to know the police on an intimate basis, don’t bother calling that evening, he was going to have the pleasure of the cop’s company the entire night shift. To further his young manly education and such.
Well, the parents of the other 3 had their kids at home withing 90 minutes after the collar. My son told the cop not to waste his time calling me, because I wouldn’t come.
He spent the night, and we never had another bit of trouble out of the kids the rest of the time he was home. One of the others went Regular Army, and was in constant trouble. The other two went into the Marines. One of those went AWOL twice from Pendleton, and the finally booted him. The other Marine skirted the edge of trouble and wasn’t allowed to re-enlist. At least he didn’t desert.
I don’t think I’m that great of Dad, but when they won’t listen to you, sometimes you gotta let the universe give them a good roundhouse slap to wake them up.
The Reserve recruiter, of course, had to run the juvenile records. The case was already closed (I knew the Juvie judge and he looked at my son in the courtroom and told him “Son, I feel sorry for you. Mr. and Mrs. Hardison, you may carry out your sentence.” My son had to beg his mother to get his driver’s license back, and that was one of the milder things we did.) The youthful indiscretion kept him from his choice of MOS (as we warned him it would), but he learned the lesson we gave to him good and hard. These days he thanks us. May be hard to believe, but he really does.
Everything pops on an FBI check these days. And yet judges keep telling kids their record is sealed/wiped clean, and that if anyone asks, they don’t have to tell. Screws a lot of kids at enlistment time.
“Funny, he replied. Under that standard, at least two of our last three presidents and commanders-in-chief would be ineligible to serve as ensigns or second lieutenants”
“T’aint funny, McGee.” (h/t: Molly)
May should we better change your handle to Great Grampa Bluewater. The Molly thing really does date you.
I used to listen to Fibber McGee and Molly on AFN in Germany, along with a lot of the old radio shows. I liked them better than I did TV.
They didn’t run Fibber and Molly too much. And I liked their closet.
I think the statement about 2 of the last 3 Presidents has a lot to do with the difference in respect people have for the Military versus Politicians. A higher standard serves us well and that is under attack from “Diversity Officers”.
Wow. Think it is time for a new warfare qual pin – since we’ve got the NADO (Naval Academy Diversity Officer) and the CDO (Command Diversity Officer – never knew that when I stood CDO watches) we must have the AirLant Diversity Officer – the ALDO, and the APDO, and then the CNODO (pronounced See-No-Dooo). Maybe the new pin can have one gold wing, one black anchor, one brown wave, and one pink dolphin. Course we gotta have a diaper bag in there somewhere.
Loss of confidence? I’ll hoping when the true facts emerge it will not be some off-hand flippant remark made by those COs that was overheard and run up the pole by some piss-ant, and some guy’s career is over. I think we all have a loss of confidence in the direction we’re headed. Rocks and shoals dead ahead!
What interested me the most was that the ATGLANT CO was relieved for actions at his previous command, CO USS WASP. I find that most curious.
As far as drugs and officer/enlistment programs, I have wondered for some time now how long it will be until you won’t be able to find someone who has not tried drugs. How that will that affect standards?
I heard a few years ago they were having a hard time finding kids that were clean. About half the kids who went through the MEPS station with my Son tested positive, and that was nearly 15 years ago.
Quartermaster:
I am a “Great Grampa”, that’s a quality award from several beautiful maidens, and one handsome young buck. I’ve got some old fruit salad around here I value less.
As for the rest, that’s classified on a need to know basis, and nobody has a need to know. I was simply trying to elevate the discussion a bit by a brief reference to the classics, sonny.
On a separate topic, some folks want to enlist only Richie (the last one graduated in 1963), when what we need is (slightly) reformed Fonzies.
Grampa Bluewater/
“….what we need is slightly reformed Fonzies”
Funny you should say that. I’ve hesitated to bring this up, but since you broke the ice, I’ll jump in. Speaking about Fighter/Attack ONLY in all 3 branches, my observation (mostly from afar and second-hand admittedly) is that while everyone from Lex’s generation on down is a far better trained and more technically proficient pilot that my generation was on the whole, and much more professional in their approach and outlook to all those things that go into being a serving officer than was my crowd, I don’t see any killers anymore–they seem to have all been weeded out (or left on their own.) Today’s pilots are highly competent and proficient for sure–but not killers. I dunno, I realize you can’t build a service around such “warped” people–never could–nor do I think it desirable. But if you don’t have a goodly few, something–a necessary something imo–in the equation is missing………and I just don’t see the killers in today’s generation of pilots in any branch. Perhaps I’m very wrong–both as to my impression about the lack thereof and/or whether they are really vital to setting the tone in performing the mission, but I am uneasy.
PS to Grampa Bluewater/
Let me further explain. I full well realize–indeed am a great exponent of the fact–that there is more than one way to skin a cat. By way of example in explaining what I am trying to get at, I would hold out that in one Wing to which I was assigned, there were two Squadrons that ran neck and neck as the the best. One was a Dallas Cowboys type–the clean-cut, clean-living, jersey-tucked-in-by-the-book “America’ Team” led by a Tom Landry type cool, analytical Sq Co–the fair haired boys–the type of Squadron All Wing Commanders love–hi performance and consistency personified–no surprises. The other front-runner outfit were the Oakland Raiders (the “OLD” Champion Raiders) of fighter Squadrons–broke all the rules–a rowdy, hard partying “jersey out” Hell’s Angels attitude type crowd led by a passionate emotional John Madden type Co that nonetheless were the top guns of the Wing–by a quarter of a point score over the Cowboys.
My point is that today all that remains are the Dallas Cowboy “America’s Team” types–the Oakland Raider types are all long gone…And I think you need both..
….Like Gregory Boyington?
Well, I’m not entirely sure that I agree with you VX. Having come from a stint at the Navy Fighter Weapons School to my command tour, I had notions of turning “my” squadron into the cool, analytical center of excellence you describe in your post. *They*, however, considered themselves something of a blue collar Navy biker gang that still got ‘er done without going corporate.
It turned out to be easier to join them than transform them. I told them I didn’t care if their boots were shined or flight suits zipped up. They ought to try and get a haircut once a month. Take care of the people who take care of the machines. Try not to get me arrested in port. And once in flight? “Flawless execution was the minimum standard.” They were OK with that, and apart from having to chastise a group that ran a rental car into an irrigation canal at 2 AM in Fallon while horsing around with the parking brake at 40 mph, I was mostly OK with them.
We had a pretty good time, won the wing-wide strike fighter competition and after I left they tore the ass out of the Taliban and then drunk dialed me at 4AM my time from Hawaii to sing me a song. So at least as recently as 2003 that spirit was still alive, at least in naval aviation.
Glad to hear that its not all diversity training and kum bah yah in the USN – at least a few years abck anyway.
I know some that did an enlisted hitch after doing some more than experimenting in teenage years but stopped before getting out of high school. At least one did twenty. One still in (exceptional person though). And what about when the recruiter tells you to lie about previous drug use, even when signing the enlistment papers for a crypto slot?
Having worked in a public school system recently, it is going to be tough to get people that have not at least experimented. Not sticking up for those that taken drugs, love to see them all disapear. Especially after seeing what it does to people (family) when they go beyong the experimantal and recreational.
I’m wondering if there was a sea change in ENNAC and NACs about 10 years ago at Boot Camp. We had a host of young petty officers that we had to start the security clearance ball rolling from zero when the word came down from on high that all MA must have security clearance. Most of them never had a national agency check after enlistment. Maybe they changed the policy to only perform NACs on folks going into rates that require clearances.
I remember when the NAC finally showed up onboard for one of my firemen. 17 Armed Robberies and Assaults as a juvenile delinquent who signed up saying he never been charged with a crime. Fraudulent enlistment, my one and only.
Lex/
Funny you should make the point that it was easier to “join ‘em” than “change ‘em” in terms of your Squadron. It was my personal experience–since backed up by a Marine F-4 Vietnam-era pilot who wrote a fine book (whose title I unfortunately don’t remember and I don’t own for some reason–had, I think, most hours/msns of any Marine who ever flew in SEA, IIRC) in which he stated his belief, (and I agree) that while one would think that personnel would determine Squadron outlook, performance, etc., the reverse is usually true: The Squadron molds the man–is a living, breathing entity shaped by tradition, etc.,–somehow mysteriously separate from it’s constituent parts. As prime example from my own experience,I can think of one squadron I was temp. assigned to which was ALWAYS “Blue 4′
in Wing competitions, readiness inspections, TAC Evals, and .record keeping paper-work stuff, etc., yet contained some of the best pilots in the Wing on an individ. basis–Had THE individual Top Gun, as well as a helluva Sq CO.. but somehow couldn’t shake the tail-end Charlie screw-up syndrome.
(Of course, upon reflection, maybe their schizoid personality–couldn’t make up their minds if they were the Cowboy OR the Raider type–were a little of both–was the cause of it all. Got so bad one Wing Cmdr had the “Fighter” in “**Fighter Squadron” on the sign in front of their building painted out and the word “Training” painted in instead)
At any rate, seems that it’s pretty much a one-way, 2nd Law of Thermo Street. Far easier to go from Dallas Cowboy Corporate culture to Raider “Hell’s Angels” outlook than the reverse!
At least from what I saw from guys that were transferred both ways. LOL.
VX,
The killers are still there. Most definitely. Just a matter of how much they’re allowed to shine through. I’d have to say it’s all a function of the front office. I’ve seen squadrons do a 180 dependent on who’s in charge. My take is that the preferred leadership is as shown above, that understands when zippers are down to the lower regions, can take a little shennanigans and will be with us (JOs when I was a JO) at Duke’s till closing time and then go finish the booze in the admin. Those leaders are usually also tops on the greenie board and in strikes/bda. So definitely a target all the guys are trying to best. Those guys we’ll follow to hell and do our best NOT to dissapoint them because that hurts more than being put in hack. The others, the ones we can tell are using the nr 1 slot as a stepping stone, we can read within a couple of days if not faster. Bare mins become de rigeur then. my .02 at least.