Comments on: The Cost of Muddling Through http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/10/04/the-cost-of-muddling-through/ The unbearable lightness of Lex. Enjoy! Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:19:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Zane http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/10/04/the-cost-of-muddling-through/comment-page-1/#comment-451198 Zane Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:50:56 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=11778#comment-451198 That used to be true in Iraq, but somehow, by 2007, we managed to get ahead of that press deception OODA loop. Still, this is a different audience, even more backwards if possible than the Iraqis. That used to be true in Iraq, but somehow, by 2007, we managed to get ahead of that press deception OODA loop. Still, this is a different audience, even more backwards if possible than the Iraqis.

]]> By: xformed http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/10/04/the-cost-of-muddling-through/comment-page-1/#comment-451170 xformed Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:58:08 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=11778#comment-451170 And don't forget to factor in an enemy who reads the NYT and LAT, and quits using cell phones, and international electronic wire transfers...and has been known to 1) place women and children in the line of fire as a tactic to suppress our fire, and 2) been known to cross dress to avoid capture/detection. If all the people you see are armed with AKs, sending rounds downrange (at you) and they are all dressed in burqas, can you call in the A-10s. Yeah, don't bet me that this won't happen....the "illegal combatants" know how to play lawfare against us. And don’t forget to factor in an enemy who reads the NYT and LAT, and quits using cell phones, and international electronic wire transfers…and has been known to 1) place women and children in the line of fire as a tactic to suppress our fire, and 2) been known to cross dress to avoid capture/detection.

If all the people you see are armed with AKs, sending rounds downrange (at you) and they are all dressed in burqas, can you call in the A-10s.

Yeah, don’t bet me that this won’t happen….the “illegal combatants” know how to play lawfare against us.

]]> By: xformed http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/10/04/the-cost-of-muddling-through/comment-page-1/#comment-451169 xformed Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:52:06 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=11778#comment-451169 Given that the DOJ is out for scalps on CIA types and White House lawyers for their decisions during the earlier stages of this fight, I'd reckon there are one or two in the chain of decision makers for support (air or arty) who consider the current Administration's active witch hunt and base their decision making on how it will look when they are flayed by the MSM after Mr Holder speaks their names. That disgusts me, but it's a part of the reality where the trigger pullers live. It's more disgusting to think the C-in-C either does not concern himself with pure pragmatism in execution on the tip of the spear, or he is all for the shaming of the American military via such ROE. Given that the DOJ is out for scalps on CIA types and White House lawyers for their decisions during the earlier stages of this fight, I’d reckon there are one or two in the chain of decision makers for support (air or arty) who consider the current Administration’s active witch hunt and base their decision making on how it will look when they are flayed by the MSM after Mr Holder speaks their names.

That disgusts me, but it’s a part of the reality where the trigger pullers live.

It’s more disgusting to think the C-in-C either does not concern himself with pure pragmatism in execution on the tip of the spear, or he is all for the shaming of the American military via such ROE.

]]> By: Papa Ray http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/10/04/the-cost-of-muddling-through/comment-page-1/#comment-451166 Papa Ray Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:49:47 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=11778#comment-451166 Evidently most of you are forgetting the current ROE in Afghanistan. There will be no Arty fire, A10 or Gunships invoking hell on earth unless many in the tactical chain want to put their careers on the line to be snuffed out. If one civilian is killed, the Taliban and the local Taliban supporters will swear and hold up tattered women's and children's clothing saying that the evil Americans killed dozens of civilians. Think about that and wonder why many who are there now, don't see anyway to fight to protect themselves or the population. Papa Ray Central Texas Evidently most of you are forgetting the current ROE in Afghanistan.

There will be no Arty fire, A10 or Gunships invoking hell on earth unless many in the tactical chain want to put their careers on the line to be snuffed out. If one civilian is killed, the Taliban and the local Taliban supporters will swear and hold up tattered women’s and children’s clothing saying that the evil Americans killed dozens of civilians.

Think about that and wonder why many who are there now, don’t see anyway to fight to protect themselves or the population.

Papa Ray
Central Texas

]]> By: ProwlerAMDO http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/10/04/the-cost-of-muddling-through/comment-page-1/#comment-451143 ProwlerAMDO Mon, 05 Oct 2009 04:31:21 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=11778#comment-451143 When it comes to CAS nothing can beat a A-10 or a Cobra helo gunship in close. We should be dragging whatever we can of those out of the boneyard, and wish we had the ability to re-open the lines. They're rugged, cheap, and effective aircraft. The Apache's good, but gold-plated and dang near point designed to kill soviet tanks in the fulda gap. Failing that we should be buying Super Tucanos now until we can get the AT-6 up and going, and flooding AF with them. Plus, government buys enough tooling (not the contractor) so that we have the ability to emergency surge produce our aircraft (something on the order of greater than twice the normal planned for peacetime production rate) in the event of a big war. If we aren't doing that right now with Chinook production (better than blackhawks at AF altitudes, plus faster and more payload, truly an amazing helo) than someone needs to be fired. When it comes to CAS nothing can beat a A-10 or a Cobra helo gunship in close. We should be dragging whatever we can of those out of the boneyard, and wish we had the ability to re-open the lines. They’re rugged, cheap, and effective aircraft. The Apache’s good, but gold-plated and dang near point designed to kill soviet tanks in the fulda gap.

Failing that we should be buying Super Tucanos now until we can get the AT-6 up and going, and flooding AF with them. Plus, government buys enough tooling (not the contractor) so that we have the ability to emergency surge produce our aircraft (something on the order of greater than twice the normal planned for peacetime production rate) in the event of a big war. If we aren’t doing that right now with Chinook production (better than blackhawks at AF altitudes, plus faster and more payload, truly an amazing helo) than someone needs to be fired.

]]> By: virgil xenophon http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/10/04/the-cost-of-muddling-through/comment-page-1/#comment-451140 virgil xenophon Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:49:27 +0000 http://www.neptunuslex.com/?p=11778#comment-451140 MAX/ LOL. Great minds think alike, etc. When only a lowly 1/Lt in Vietnam I proposed/thought out loud that we should go to the boneyard and refurbish a bunch of B-36s for use as flying dump-trucks in orbit over SVN for night-time radar bombing. Both way more payload and loiter-time than B-52s and without any SAM or hi-alt AAA activity in the South pretty much invulnerable. Just wander around all night hitting pre-plans by radar using CSS-Combat Sky-spot, (an AF reverse B-52 practice radar bombing system) or the Marines more portable ASRAT radar bombing sys. Of course today with accuracy of GPS and lazers, you could use them as orbiting on-call CAS as you suggest. Makes sense to me. And I STILL think that in absence of air/SAM activity it still makes sense in terms of both operational cost and tactics to resurrect the 36s after all these years and use them instead. Refurbishing costs would be large, but they should then fly forever and suffer zero combat losses save runway incidents, etc., so useful in a number of conflicts over another 50 yrs or so. MAX/

LOL. Great minds think alike, etc. When only a lowly 1/Lt in Vietnam I proposed/thought out loud that we should go to the boneyard and refurbish a bunch of B-36s for use as flying dump-trucks in orbit over SVN for night-time radar bombing. Both way more payload and loiter-time than B-52s and without any SAM or hi-alt AAA activity in the South pretty much invulnerable. Just wander around all night hitting pre-plans by radar using CSS-Combat Sky-spot, (an AF reverse B-52 practice radar bombing system) or the Marines more portable ASRAT radar bombing sys. Of course today with accuracy of GPS and lazers, you could use them as orbiting on-call CAS as you suggest. Makes sense to me. And I STILL think that in absence of air/SAM activity it still makes sense in terms of both operational cost and tactics to resurrect the 36s after all these years and use them instead. Refurbishing costs would be large, but they should then fly forever and suffer zero combat losses save runway incidents, etc., so useful in a number of conflicts over another 50 yrs or so.

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