For a moment of crystal clarity:
Several top White House officials, including Emanuel, Jones, David Axelrod, and Joe Biden, remain skeptical of escalating U.S. military engagement in Afghanistan. And according to the man who conducted the Afghanistan review for the Obama White House, Bruce Riedel, politics is at the center of those concerns.
“I think a big part of it is, the vice president’s reading of the Democratic party is this is not sustainable,” Riedel told the New York Times. “That’s a part of the process that’s a legitimate question for a president–if I do this, can I sustain it with political support at home? That was the argument the vice president was making back in the winter.”
Try to win your country’s war, or your party’s election: That’s a tough one.
Oh HEAVENS! Nobody could see this coming!
You think there is a choice between these two goals? For this imPOTUS and his PARTY?
The dread beast Uderbus is slobbering to gobble up our military and Af.
I think what troubles me the most is that it appears that they actually listen to Biden. Yech. I don’t think I could stand to be in the same room with the guy much less let the blowhard talk me into his idea of good strategy to be followed in such an important matter.
Elections, I’m told, have consequences. Bummer.
Win the War, Win the Party, Win the War, Win the Party?
What a Supreme Jacka$$ we have for CIC, POTUS. Come to think of it, how can he be CIC if he doesn’t choose to win the war? If he chooses to “Win the Party”, he’ll surely cause loss of life among those he presumes to command. Where would morale among the troops be then? Does he care? Is he political?
Answers: Down, No, Yes.
Isn’t it true that choosing to do what’s right and necessary as “the-buck-stops-here guy” usually kills dead the opportunity of popularity with the masses? That would mean “winning your country’s war or your party’s election” isn’t even a choice. If Obama manages to find the moral turpitude to face reality and do what’s right, he isn’t likely to keep/win the brownie points necessary to remain America’s Great White Hope (oh, now that’s funny)
Bond with Code Pink or pull a Vietnam out of Afghanistan AND Iraq…? These folks really are evil so we have to put on our evil hats to see what kind of benefit they think they might derive, if for instance, the RINOs win control back in the House in 2010. What kind of posturing would truly despicable scum at that level in the White House be able to pull off to convince the dim RINOs, moderates and hardcore communist base that our reverses in both our current wars could be laid at the feet of the RINO majority in the House? Those guys really understand 2nd and 3rd order political effects.
It’s easy to see the RINOs, should they win the House, get the blame for cutting discretionary funding to stave off their conservative base. The second they start ‘slashing’ the only discretionary funding left (DOD Budget), well, we can see that it was those nasty republicans that saw us go down to defeat.
As if this wasn’t obvious. The mafia that is this White House is ALL about the power. The concept of service, to the nation, its citizens, the greater good – it a “quaint” concept that doesn’t serve their agenda. We elected the hand-picked candidate of the Chicago Mob. You get what you pay for.
And that’s EXACTLY what I said from day 1.
A bunch of us agreed totally. Obama is the JIC – Jackass In Chief. Alas for our country.
“That’s a part of the process that’s a legitimate question for a president…
Really – playing with the lives of our brave warriors is a legitimate thing to do for their supposed Commander-in-Chief…
This leaves me wondering just who is in the White House? Because this guy is far more dangerous than anyone has imagined.
It would be nice if we had Patriots in our Government. It seems that some folks feel the “Long War” is the destruction of conservative thinking and not the defeat of enemies who actually want to kill Americans.
Sad to say we (as a Nation) have allowed ourselves to be suckered in by a Huckster. Bush wore down the electorate to the point where they would believe anything would have to be better…and we got President Doofus.
Now we have a CIC who knows nothing about fighting a War deciding the fate of our beloved warriors (14 of which died last night while we slept). This is akin to putting a 7-11 Clerk in charge of running a major corporation…The wrong people are in the wrong jobs.
I hope that the electorate gets it right in 2010 and hands a major loss to these pinheads. Biden, Politano, Gietner, and Obama are all ill equipped for the jobs they now hold and we (and our soldiers) are the ones suffering for the mistake of handing them the key to the kingdom.
Not a believer in re-inventing the wheel, the guy over at “Man-sized Target” says it so much better than me. Go over to his place and read his 21 OCT post entitled: ” Obama’s hand-wringing Over Afghanistan.” The guy really encapsulates it very concisely. Go read “Mr. Roach” @
http://mamsizedtarget.com/
Me? I’m laying in EVEN MORE liquid provisions. The sight of people being fed piece-meal, draped with ROE restrictions, into the slo-mo meat-grinder is more than I can stand sober….
Sorry,
http://mansizedtarget.com/
Try to win your country’s war, or your party’s election: That’s a tough one.
Say what you will about President Bush, but he made his choice on this question quite clearly.
To be honest, I am not surprised. This Presidency is not about the country, it is about shoving his transformational agenda down our throats.
He has a habit of throwing friends, pastors, and companies under the bus, why not our military and our country too, neither mean anything to him. And neither does it mean anything to the majority of the democrat party evidently: “I think a big part of it is, the vice president’s reading of the Democratic party is this is not sustainable,”
My son came home from AF before the reinforcements arrived and is at Camp Pendleton for the next couple of years as an instructor. As proud as I am of him, I am glad he is home in one piece and not over there during this mess. But his buddy (they enlisted together) came home minus a leg. I wonder what he thinks of his sacrifice as well as those who gave everything.
Obama needs to shit or get off the pot.
The more I write the madder I get. I cannot express how disgusted I am with obama.
To a malignant narcissist, and Obama is a prime example, no one and nothing is real except his own needs. I had an image in my mind this morning of the helicopters on the roof of the American Embassy in Vietnam, lifting off and leaving behind our Vietnamese allies begging to be taken off to safety. That was a bleak unworthy page of our history. And Obama and Biden are planning the same thing for us now.
The October 19 issue of The Weekly Standard has a first rate essay by Charles Krauthammer entitled Decline is a Choice. It points out, in sobering detail, the errors and misapprehensions of the current Administration concerning its reorganization and dumbing down of the singular and beautiful society that was America before the Administration took over. With his usual thorough approach, Krauthammer points out that with concentrated effort, we can still alter this.
Please let’s try. With all of our might.
Marianne
Here is the link to article referenced above:
ARTICLE
I posted a link the the Krauthammer article on my Facebook page. Got two, and only two, very interesting comments. Most people who saw it didn’t bother to read it as is to be expected. Most people I suppose just are along for the ride and don’t pay attention to this stuff. Two who did are both young adults – late 20s and early 30s – and wrote long replies basically saying that the premise that America is “special” or occupies a special place is wrong and that we have no moral authority to claim so.
One even said that, after reaching adulthood he had learned that everything he had been taught by his parents about how good America is has been proven wrong and that, in so many words, it was time we got what was coming to us.
Two does not a large enough sample to mean anything. But one wonders if hearing the mantra of the left all through school has finally accomplished what no enemy ever has – created a generation that hates us for who we are.
As I responded in my comments there: Power rushes in to fill a vacuum – if we create one who would we have fill it?
Well, at least Biden is consistent. He’s been wrong about every major policy in his career. He was also against the surge in Iraq, wanted to divide the country up along sectarian lines.
We didn’t elect a huckster. They did. We were the victims of a carefully orchestrated conspiracy designed to put a Socialist in the White House and a Socialist majority into both Houses of Congress.
Try to win your country’s war, or your party’s election: That’s a
tough oneno brainer.FIFY.
Of course, the 50-50-90 rule says give the President and his staff a 50-50 chance and 90% of the time they will find a way to screw our Men and Women in uniform. “Win this without further help” seems to be the order of the day, doesn’t it?
When this decision is over and finally made, if it isn’t the correct one, this will end his Presidency one way or the other. He will be impeached, or Congress will be overthrown and a revolt of some kind will occur. It won’t be because our military revolts either. It will be because the average citizen is too fed up with not being listened to and not being represented by Congress and the President.
I believe the timeline for this will occur sometime after the midterm elections, but before the 2012 elections.
He and Congress must make the correct decision here, or his Presidency is over.
Sorry, but that is just what I think will happen.
Subsunk
Subsunk – I dearly hope that it happens before the midterms, so this country has a chance at restoration.
Lex has often said that the republic will survive – and much as I’m a big Lex-fan, I’m not so sure about that anymore. Without the afore-suggested revolt I don’t believe the republic will survive; Obama and his minions have been let loose with no checks or balances. We need that revolt before the children of our children are still cleaning up the mess.
Throw in the current attempts, domestically, to abrogate the Constitution, vague and ambiguous domestic and foreign policies, along with corrupted election results in several places worldwide, and there seems to be a catastrophe of global proportions in the making.
I, too, believe that we can still fix this. As Marianne says “Please let’s try. With all our might.”
After us, there is no one else. We’re it, gang…
Seems we are on the same page with Gerald Celente, with one exception. He doesn’t think we can pull the country out of this mess. He’ alas, is probably right. The stage was set at Appomatox Court House, with the final blows coming from FDR and LBJ’s welfare state legislation. Our economy is pretty well shot, and DC is owned by the big financial houses of New York City. I think things are going to get real bad and I’m hoping we can get our guys home safe.
I’m in…whatever it takes.
Look, one reason Obama is loath to send reinforcements is that he is afraid of the increased body-bag count that increased up-tempo ops will inevitably bring–even if it eventually does bring success in keeping the Taliban at bay for a sufficient amount of time to arm/bribe the tribes and/or stand up a more robust, reliable Af national Army. No, Obama will try to muddle thru hoping that a lower-level op temps will tamp down public outcry enough for him to complete the Sovietization (and if one has any doubts just examine the backgrounds of all the various advisers and *Czars* he has consciously–indeed hand-picked–surrounded himself with) of the domestic economy. We all know his sympathetic views towards Islam in general, and lack of identification with mainstream America for all the many reasons all so many have outlined. We all know that. Sooo, given that reality as a backdrop, does anyone really think he is going to conduct an anti-terrorist/anti Jihadist campaign with any enthusiasm? He has the much more important task of re-making America into a more “just” society to attend to. Obama doesn’t want to touch that Af tar-baby with the proverbial ten-foot pole. As we see with the elections, he will seize upon ANY excuse to delay long enough to enact his domestic agenda.
Remember, narcissist ideologues march to a different drummer than ordinary politicians, and are unmoved by reasons of national interest apart from their own. Ho-Chi Minh would have seen his countrymen killed off to the last man as long as HE was in utter control of that last man. Such thinking is why Hitler was willing to keep fighting well past the time when it was obvious all was lost, and why he believed the German people undeserving of surviving past his own death. In WWI Lenin was willing, at the Treaty of Brest-Litovisk, to trade away 20@ of Russia’s most educated population , 84% of its steel-mills and 89% of its working coal-mines (the heart of its industrial economy) in order to end the war and preserve the Bolsheviks and the Communist party. Does anybody think Obama would hesitate for a second to make a similar sacrifice of America in order to see the ultimate triumph of his “more-just” Stalinist world-view?
Obama (and most of the hard “left) is, as the the British are wont to say, too clever by half. He obviously believes he can finesse the Islamic thing long enough to enact his domestic program. Given his background, Obama of all people in the US is one of the least likely to consider the presence of Muslims in general in Western societies as a threat.
As Lex has said here before, it does not look like this will end well–at all.
So how many of us are ready to stop quibbling about the meaning of terms like “patriotism” or “high crimes and misdemeanors?”
Is the word of the day “treason” yet?
I don’t think that word remains in any vocabulary in D.C.
Of course it is politics!
As Clausewitz said: “War is a continuation of politics by other means.”
Unfortunately our eight-year presence in Afghanistan has hardened a large percentage of the population against us, believing we must be resisted and opposed. Adding 40,000 more troops only exacerbates this problem.
Nor would 40,000 more troops be enough to do the job… if indeed it is even job doable, especially given Afghanistan’s long history of demoralizing and devastating major foreign armies over time.
COIN experts estimate it would take 10 brigades just to train the ANP. These 60,000 to 80,000 troops would need support units of 15-20,000 troops. The minimum number of troops needed is over 100,000… and we just do not have them available! Indeed, if a job can only be expected to be, “half-done”, and thereby making things worse, it is better to not be done at all. And there are far more Al Queda in Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, etc. than in Afghanistan, threatening our future.
filterman… I agree…of course its politics…the politics of extreme self-interest ( is there any other kind?) only this time its the Afghan people in place of my little Brown Brothers who will take the fall…along with a new generation of our best and brightest in uniform…its business as usual. Best
PS, I don’t think the situation would be much different under a McCain presidency.
Flit, you demonstrate a superficial understanding of Clausewitz: War is the continuation of FOREIGN POLICY by other means. Not domestic politics. Apples & oranges.
Oh, please don’t get me started. I survived the Peanut Farmer, I’ll survive this guy.
Mojo, if you are serious in comparing the two, an analogy would be seeing both a cow and a grizzly in the wild and thinking that they pose the same threat to you.
It will be interesting to see if this report will be carried by the mainstream media. It should be. We, the readers of this blog, are outraged by the fact he is weighing the winning of a war versus his political career. If more Americans were to hear about this, POTUS’s polls would tank. Maybe we should link the story in e-mails and spread it virus-like. I hate spam, but this might be a good reason.
There is no honor, no sense of what is right, only what is expedient. It leads to the kind of decision making politicians specialize in.
My office has been an integral part of these “Af/Pak Principal Strategy Sessions”
(http://itsallverbatim.blogspot.com/2009/10/still-waiting.html)
Let’s just say most of the proposals of the table (excluding the Joint Staff J7 & J3/5, DIA and the more rational sects of the NSC) are totally divorced from reality.
It’s painful, really. NDA’s prevent me from delving into it fully, but some of the proposals would cause the regulars here to go completely ape-shit. I sit along the wall, and let my boss do the talking. It is absolutely incredible how naive this administration (and yes, senior members of the NSC and State) are.
USD(P) isn’t innocent, either. DoD’s policy shop is cooking up some the craziest policies I’ve seen in a long time. There is a concerted effort to create “Stop Loss 2.0″ – basically you would be re-classed from whatever specialty/MOS/AFSC/rate, regardless of branch/age/rank, and thrust into, say, military police, MI, or EOD. Not offered; you’d be required to jump over. Even the 10% we vets know exist that shouldn’t and couldn’t do MI, EOD et al. If you refused, they would whip out the UCMJ. This is actually being considered as a way to surge without actually surging. Joint Staff J1 and J3/5 were under heavy pressure to report we were under strain, and couldn’t handle a 40K/60K/80K push. J1 came back and told the WH/NSC point blank: we have more than enough. They didn’t like that and are now finding excuses to not surge period, not even the 10K trial balloon they tossed up last week.
They’re stalling. I spend my entire morning, 5 days a week in the EEOB and State with these fuckers. You heard it here first.
Should we be surprised that the group that cooked up “VETERANS ARE A DANGER” and other obsurdities are trying to create a “Stop Loss 2.0″?
I was in the US Naval Reserve and they were trying to get us to go to Individual Augmentee asssignement, which sends you from the Navy to the “NARMY” (Navy personnel serving in Army units)
The way the Army has treated their NCOs and senior enlisted contributed to this problem. The Navy puts you on deployment and you serve your 6-7 months in country, with the three or so training before for a total of approximatley 9 months. Long time but not 12 months or 18 months like the Army.
When I arrived in Fallujah, there were Army types who were there and had been there for a while. When I left 6 months later, those Army types were still there. Some spent two years on deployment !
Add in the crazy kooky policies that “Verbatim” speaks about, and we’ll be lucky if we have any decent senior enlisted core in our military at all. And any professional military knows it is the NCOs that get the job done…The Officers are well and fine but without the middle, you get a lot of Brass at the top and too many green youngsters on the bottom who wind up dead.
SK1, I was a CTA2 in my former life. Know all about crazy policies.
Coming to a type commander near you.
ItsAllVerbatim/
Unfortunately you have confirmed my (and I’m sure others here) ABSOLUTE WORST fears about Obama. I see predictably he is living down to our worst/lowest fears.
Why am I not surprised?
Stop Loss under The WON? I’d love to see it…but I fear there would be no BS movies made about it, nor nary a mention in the MSM or from Micheal Moore….All for the good of the Motherland, ya know…
“Motherland,” eh xformed? Let’s see, the “Fatherland” was Hitler’s Germany, so I’m guessin’ were talkin’ old Joe’s SU here right? Yeah, your all too correct–we’re dead on track..
When do crowds start forming in front of the White House?
Not soon enough?
The Taliban strategic center of gravity is the Democrat Party of the United States. Hat tip to Von Clausewitz.
P.S. Flit- you make statements that are pure conjecture on your part. That statement that we have hardened the population against us is pure spin. I have had cpersonal contacts who have been there on the ground for the past 5 year that say otherwise. Getting your talking points from Joe Biden?
Lt. Col. Daniel L. Davis, US Army.
Is this LCOL you cite as gaseous as the retired Army 2 star you thought was making points for your case?
I saw your Sun Tzu quote above, what was it…“There is no instance of a nation benefiting from prolonged warfare.” Sun Tzu.
Kind of backwards don’t you think? I mean reread it! The only nations that have survived at all were the ones prepared to fight for forever. The ones that wouldn’t fight are all gone. There used to be a very fine publication called The Historical Atlas of the World in 2 volumes. It was paperback and I still have my copies. Empires come and go. They mostly go when they decide to stop fighting.
And who is he? Has he been an imbedded trainer with the ANA or ANP? If so how many times? Where? Herat, Helmand province? I get my info from personal friends who have been there more than once.
I trump your O-5 with three O-6s and a BG.
Sheesh! You guys need to get out more…read more…get out from under… or at least learn how to goggle.
LTC Dan Davis has an important and insightful, unpublished 63-page paper on Afghanistan strategy that is being passed around Washington circles. And it is making quite an impact at very high levels.
While certainly RHIP, dropping names/pay grades will never trump astute analysis of great importance. Just as paper covers rock, smarts beat rank. Intelligence is where you find it; it knows no rank or rate. Regardless of any and all attempts to discredit the messenger, it is the message where importance lies.
LINK
Related analysis from Captains Journal.
Flit/
Funny you link that article, as it would seem that Herschel Smith in his analysis of LTC Davis’ proposals fairly eviscerates the good colonel in his concluding analysis, thereby totally rejecting Davis’ approach as impractical and unworkable for a variety of reasons he so ably lays out.
You couldn’t have provided a better refutation of your Biden-like policy stance if you tried, flit. Thanks for the link!
VX – Of course I knew what I linked. And I did know it was contradictory to the colonel. (Yes, I read the link more than once before I provided it.)
But I am not an ideologue. I love opposing views. I welcome them. (unlike many here)
I am not afraid of them, and I will post opposing views to further the debate. Nevertheless, such countervailing opinions do give some serious substance to LTC Davis’s credibility that Dust or others questioned, do they not? It certainly got Hershel Smith’s attention, did it not?
Moreover, the link was given to interest the majority of right-winger’s here on lex’s site, who would otherwise discount LTC Davis’s paper without thought… unless there were some opposing thought the coincided with their pre-formulated opinions.
I see Lt. Col Davis has responded to Hershel Smith. Read and learn more on this crucial subject.
Flit,
Again, it seems to me that the lengthy, detailed reply to the colonels reply by one TSAlfabet pretty much counters LTC Davis’ points by centering on the theme I have been advocating here about concentrating efforts on the local tribes who were the Talibans natural enemies, and whose tribal leaders are ACLU progressives by comparison to the Taliban. My only addition to TSAlfabets’ comments and where I differ with him and most on both sides of the argument would be that training costs and equipment needs for the Af Army are not as great as everyone envisions. This is because I would not worry overmuch about “training” an Afghan Army as I would instead arm the local tribes who already know how to fight and won’t need massive “training” or great numbers of our troops to train them. Who “trains” the Taliban? Seems they do pretty well on their own, doesn’t it? Thus said, the local tribesmen are no different–they’re no slouches and the game either. And with the disbursed tribes armed, there would be no need for a massive input of expensive logistical lift capability and trained pilots for a much smaller centralized national Army–same for ground transport/fighting vehicles. All of the “fighting” equipment will already be out in the field in the hands of the local tribes, negating much of the need for a logistical support train to support tribes who now can support themselves to a large extent.
That said, I would posit that a “Go Big” strategy would still be needed for a couple of years to stabilize things until the local tribes could be armed and bribed. This would be followed sequentially by a gradual withdrawal and implementation–or rather increased emphasis–on the kinetic “Go Deep” strategy once the tribes security concerns were stabilized. The two strategies are NOT necessarily mutually exclusive.
(Also, if you haven’t already done so, you might want to go up-thread and click on the link I’ve provided to Mansized-Target. He has some interesting things to say on this subject you might appreciate.)