This is where it leads:
Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq — the alleged mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah in 2004. And three of the SEALs who captured him are now facing criminal charges, sources told FoxNews.com.
The three, all members of the Navy’s elite commando unit, have refused non-judicial punishment — called an admiral’s mast — and have requested a trial by court-martial.
Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named “Objective Amber,” told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it.
Now, instead of being lauded for bringing to justice a high-value target, three of the SEAL commandos, all enlisted, face assault charges and have retained lawyers.
A bloody lip?
Oh, for heaven’s sake.
Who’s the sh!tbag that signed off on those charges? That SOB needs to be drop kicked in the family jewels. They wouldn’t do this to cops arresting a perp who was resisting! Same thing that started happening to “certain” suspects, i.e., a throw-away gun and several bullet holes and no freakin’ intel.
Drop-kicked…and then shipped out to Afghanistan on an indefinite deployment.
Defusing IEDs.
No sense risking valuable robots when you have this sort of idiot available.
“They wouldn’t do this to cops arresting a perp who was resisting!”
Yes they would, Byron. In any accredited agency, supervisors are required to file a Use of Force report for any kind of force used during resistance, even things like forcing a person to turn around so they can be cuffed. Nickels and Dimes, all the time. Agencies like JSO and FHP are short of bodies for a reason.
There’s a reason why I’d never make it as a police officer; I’d be too quick to put a round in someone that wants to hurt me or worse.
A bloody lip? Muslims seem to make a career out of whining. Remember those hoked-up photographs of the Mid East conflict, with the same Iraqi lady moaning and groaning in front of three different bombed buildings? And ‘green helmet man’ and his tale of woe? What a group of con persons!
Can’t wait to hear Hasan’s list of made-up grievances.
Marianne
Also this one – http://zombietime.com/fraud/ambulance/
(gazes into his crystal ball – puts hand to his forehead in intense thought) I see fewer, many fewer, captives in the future.
Crystal Ball? I was always partial to the Magic 8-Ball myself….
**facepalm**
Good for them for declining NJP.
Their chain of command was afraid of being accused of covering up this ‘abuse’ – So the matter was referred to Admiral’s Mast..
I am glad they refused the NJP. They are risking a Federal conviction.
That’s Article 15 for you Army types.
YGBSM!
The terrorist is lucky that’s all he got, he of the Religion of the Perpetually Aggrieved.
I also read today that Columbia and Princeton rescinded invitations for a speaker on human rights because of her position on terrorism – as duly pointed out by the various Muslim groups on campus.
What has happened to common sense?
It was elected out of office by 52 million voters.
The distinct lack of common sense, replaced by the illness called politically correctness, has taken over our land. It may have been 52 million votes that decided the case, but there were another 48 million among the dissenters.
It reminds me of a story my daughter told during her experiences in the Army, in the early days of the attack on Iraq in 2003. Theirs was one of the very few Army desert hospital units to be guarded by the Marines. After one particularly busy evening, the Marine guards turned up several Iraqii Army captives. The next day, the Marine unit CO promptly sent his unit out for an extended session of target practice. Message sent.
Please don’t misconstrue my comment about 52 million. It was intended to reflect agreement with Flatlander’s comment.
Understood… no problem. Just pointing out there are many folks of the other stripe out there.
This is out of a frickin’ Vince Flynn novel. Good Lord.
For Byron:
There is/was a block reserved for the unit XO on the “Report and Disposition of Offenses” labeled “dismissed” which may be checked at the XO’s Premast Investigation.
Its purpose is/was to dispose of frivolous complaints at the lowest possible level. It is/was binding.
As a practical matter also allows/ed the XO maintain discipline by actions within his normal authority re counseling and training. Said authority being significant.
It would appear on the face of it this could have, and in my opinion probably should have, been the preferred option.
Fat lip? Prisoner? Terrorist? Reliability of accuser?Keep it off the Captain’s desk, if at all legally possible.
But I wasn’t there and don’t know the facts and context. Note the caveats. Here’s some more.
The accused may have been singularly free of matters in mitigation and extenuation, and obdurate. History and reputation carry weight.
The CO may have detected a drift toward prisoner abuse and desired to nip it in the bud. But…the PO’s may have been bullheaded and proud.
Witnesses may have very pertinent observations.
Time will tell. The accused have rights and they elected to exercise them. Whether wisely or not, dunno.
At this point I see no graceful exit. Handling it in house is no longer an option.
If command was easy, everybody would get it eventually.
Granpa, to a point I agree with you. But given the current political climate, there was no way I’d have let this get out of the unit. I would have turned it over to the goat locker, and told the senior CPO to make sure it didn’t happen again. If his goat locker is not reliable enough to handle it, then there’s issues far worse than a split lip.
The encouraging sign is the demand for court martial. That tells me the POs believe they are on firm ground.
JEEEZUS! This is asinine! So what’s next? Charges brought against all SERE School instructors?
Nah, SERE instructors are messing with American military, not terrorists. They get a pass.
One may or may not assume that normal Navy NJP procedures are in play. If they were attached to a multiforce specwar command there could be airfarc or army politics/policies/procedures at play as well.
Doesn’t make it right, but the booger may not even be on a traditional “XO”s finger.
Just a bit ironic, eh?
Yeah, but I’ll betcha there isn’t anything ’separate’ about their story.
I was thinking about the irony of the arraignment being on Pearl Harbor Day.
1. I foresee a lot of Instructors at SERE looking for orders, for fear that somebody might get a ‘boo boo’ and file a complaint.
2. Thinking Jeff in NorCal has it right: WWII-Marines in the Pacific were notorious for not taking Prisoners, in spite of being instructed many times to do so. The Marine Corps finally promised R&R for each Prisoner captured, with the result that many Prisoners were captured who had actionable intelligence. The program was so successful that the Marine Corps did away with the R&R provision, and within a week or two the Prisoner capture rate dropped back down to zero.
Thought it was in the latter pasrt of WWII, I’ve been told by a number of WWII Combat Vets, my Father among them, that the number of Germans captured decreased significantly after the GI’s found and liberated the concentration camps.
Depressing… Guess the SEALs need to hone their shooting skills.
While I certainly can agree that a fat lip is the least this amoeba deserves for punishment, what if it went down like this:
SEALS: Hey XO, we got ‘em, we got that scumbag, whatya want us to do with him?
XO: He looks a bit roughed up, follow the rules of prisoner handling from here on out.
SEALS: XO, this A$$hole killed some friends of ours, remember?
XO: I know but…
At this point SEALS punch amoeba in the puss. Blood and fatness ensues. Clearly, a line has been crossed. What next. Oh, and those people over there watching? They’re wondering whose in charge as well. Seems the Command is in charge so far after all, as Granpa Bluewater so eloquently spelled out. They probably made the decision for themselves before the CPO Mess had a chance to correct it.
Amoeba will hang soon enough, no need to get the libs/media involved with high profile Bull$hit. Discretion is…
you know the rest.
We are at war?
From what I see in the newspapers, we are not at war.
May God bless the SEALS and make the dismissal of these ridiculous charges swift and blazingly clear to all concerned to cut the crap and get on with fighting the war. TO WIN!
I woul dnot be surprised to see these guys get a harsher sentence than KSM ends up with at his “trial.” However, Bush and Cheney and Rumsfield may get harsher sentences than the SEALs, also from the KSM circus.
A real Commander in Chief would not tolerate such crap. But, he is still dithering, so he cannot be disturbed.
I guess the SEALs will not be getting the option of a trial in US District Court?
Will anyone in Holder’s law-firm be representing them gratis?
I joined the Corps because I figured my fellow marines would have my back and drag my ass out if I needed it. Command, all the way up to the CIC, no longer has the back of the front line troops. Its hard on moral. when moral falls that’s when soldiers, sailors and Marines say, Adios!
Sigh.
The Gomer made the alegations to his Iraqi custodians after being turned over by the SEALS. Once he made the charge, he was turned back over to the SEALS. What a crock of crap. You’re either going to see a lot less prisoners and more dead guys, or more operators voting with their feet and working for Xe or any of the others just waiting for them. this should not have gotten to this point. no way. Just seems to be another case of CYA by the COC.
Yep…
Double tap…
“He resisted…”
What the HELL is going on with this country. I’m a baby-boomer who still remembers when this country had common sense. Now political correctness has ascended to the point that our warriors can’t bust a lip, like I did in a friggen schoolyard many years ago? Shame on the SecNav and anyone else that goes along with this travesty!
WTF
Damn.
PC in this administration; tis a killer.
Hey Barry, take a knee and punch yourself in the face.
TAKE NO PRISONERS. Rule numba ONE in the Land of Make Believe.
Actually this will wind up saving the US taxpayers millions in show trials in New York City. Hard to put a guy with two smokin holes in his noggin on trial.
I guess if the civilians are rough on the next one who attempts to hijack an airliner, they will also be charged with abusing a prisoner. We are no longer the “Let’s Roll!” pack, but once again a flock of sheep. This is so 9/10 and Clinton/Gorelick.
I don’t remember who said it but, probably paraphrased:
You have to be tougher than the enemy….
I just hang my head in shame and disappointment
Is this the Army dude who threw a MARSOC Company out of theater a while back? Maybe the Army just has a wild hair for non-Army types?
This is probably a result of the posting by a SEAL’s wife or girlfriend of photos messing with a POW a few years ago. Not that I agree with it. I am a former SEAL (1970-1973) as is my son. The problem with the new PC military is too many lawyers. Everything has to be cleared with them. We are also going back to the same types of ROE that we had in Vietnam. Permission to fire even after being fired on. Officers are the members of ANGLICO who can OK an airstrike or a fire mission. It sucks. Win the war or get the heck out.
even my co-worker with no connections to the military whatsoever said in response to this news that they should have shot him like a mad dog right on the spot…
The left is large and in-charge. Politically correct thought is General Order Number 1. Political correctness allowed thirteen fine soldiers to be put added to our honored war dead because no one wanted to call a spade a radical muslim spade. It. never. should. have. happened. And Lightweight just couldn’t bring himself to call it terror.
In my perfect world, I hope the officer that brought these petty charges, gets this shoved so far up it will floss his teeth from the inside. Well, I can dream.
Two of the greatest mysteries in life are why do innocent little children have to suffer from the unfairnesses of life and how do such assholes float to the top.
I like that, Dust: “Why do assholes float to the top?”
You hit the proverbial nail. That’s what has happened.
For the love of goats. I’m glad they refused NJP – bring it to Court Martial. Shine a light on this and let the roaches scatter. I’m curious to see how they are judged by a panel of their peers. My prayers that common sense and justice prevail.
Ok, I’ll play the straight guy, again. I’ve read elsewhere that their asking for a Court Martial (as opposed to NJP) means their careers as SF is at an end.
Can anyone who knows comment on this?
Because if they are found innocent of all charges, their command structure will be shown to be the candy ass pogues we all know they are? And who’s the brilliant rocket scientist who turned this dirtbag over to the Iraqis? Does anyone in higher command over there have an effing clue?
Are they being required to read these “detainees” the Miranda rights? It would be interesting to have a JAG input on how the rules of the game are changing due to Holder’s guidance.
Meanwhile back at home plate, BHO enjoys a curry with the Hollywood/Bollywood heavies and not even a token invite to one of the injured from Hood.
Let the prosecuting officers from now on be the ones to capture these terrorists. Oh, an the JAGS can read the Miranda rights AFTER they give them battlefield ‘brevet US citizeneship” for impressive action against Americans. Then the SEALS can go collect the remains of the arresting force.
It ain’t the crime, it’s the cover up. All three are charged with making false official statements. I’d bet this would have been handled very differently if there were no evidence of having misled their chain of command about how that bloody lip happened.
In my time I saw and out of a perceived necessity participated in inflicting, on some hapless gomer, a lot worse than a bloody flippen lip…there are always extenuating circumstances in these matters… your blood is up and yes sometimes events can get out of hand…but you do expect, within reason,the backing of your chain of command…
…dosen’t sound like thats the situation here. Making a false official statement is not a trivial matter…that the three Seals felt the necessity to do so speaks volumes…sadly whatever happens I think their done for in the Navy.Best
Who said there was a cover up? I musta missed that part.
A couple of other points:
1. I am working up for deployment, and will not take stupid chances with my people. If threatened, we will terminate the threat with extreme prejudice. Nothing malicious – just do what needs to be done. I expect all my folks will come home; the other ones – well, they are home and will be enjoying their 72 virgins at room temperature.
2. When we go outside the wire, I plan to ask my Group commander for a JAGO to walk point, and trail. No sense in taking any legal risk either.
BZ to the SEALS for pushing back. In my narrowly focused mind, a fat lip is not quite the same as burning and hanging 4 of our people off a bridge structural member while partying down. As time goes on, I am thinking SE Afghanistan is looking more and more like a candidate for “Rolling Thunder – Avenge Our Troops.”
BUFF’s are wonderful things, even if they are an AF asset.
Yes, perhaps you did miss that part. If you re-read the article linked to by our host, you’ll see that all three are charged with making false official statements, and one of them is charged with “impeding an investigation.”
This kind of thing just makes me want to weep.
Our great republic, the U.S.A., will not survive another 100 years if this Bravo Sierra continues to happen. Those seals should be given awards, accolades and thanks for what they did. Between the CIA getting torn apart for what they were chartered to do (ultimate objective is to protect our national interest) and now these Seals…my friends, this country is not going to make it. We are headed down the wrong path, and quickly! <>
I was fortunate enough to have a long one on one talk over breakfast with long serving Member of Congress yesterday and it left me very down. All the stuff that gets dismissed as tin-hat kookiness by most of the media is very real and very much a part of the left’s agenda which will pass within the next year was this insider’s take. Wealth redistribution is only the start and the leadership of the Congress and the Administration are set on getting it done.
I’ve never heard a more bleak assessment in my life from one close to the action.
OldT6/
I’ve been saying all along it’s even worse than our worst fears. Sadly, you seem to have confirmed my prediction.
Dust,
A$$holes float to the top because $hit floats.
War is an ugly thing and those who have never worn the uniform, or faced danger, aren’t truly qualified to be able to judge those who have. But, in our system, we elect unqualified people to high office, and they appoint even less qualified people to positions of importance who can then implement policies that further their own political agenda.
And, what may be the saddest part of this is that our military has evolved into a system that promotes administrators and lawyers instead of warriors and risk takers.
The result is that there are far too many in positions of authority tah are far, far more interested in covering their a$$es than they are in accomplishing the objective (which, in case they have forgotten, is winning the fricken war.)
Elections have consequences. And 52 million Americans can’t be that wrong, can they?
RE: The Seals. Total insane craziness. The “Death of Common Sense” Part 999999999999************** This is what comes of a society drenched in multi-culti PC from kindergarden on….
Yep. The SEALs should just have said that they were members of SEIU and all would have been forgiven. http://bit.ly/5DyK9C
Maybe it’s because I was Surface Warfare from ‘79-’91, but now, as a JAG, I can’t help but give the operators the benefit of the doubt. When I brief our guys on LOAC/ROE, I tell them that neither I nor the Commander will second guess their reactions in combat. No monday morning quarterbacking. On the other hand, a cover-up is another beast.
BZ Sea Dragon.
Someone please clarify cover-up for me. You mean they didn’t go out to the press bragging “Yeah, we grabbed his ass and poked the Fokker in the beak!”?
I’d call that something more akin to simple discretion and humility.
I call it a cover-up when someone lies about what took place, falsifies an official report, or tampers with evidence to hide the truth. If you did your job, don’t lie. I’ll back you up if you tell me the truth and your actions can be justified.
Sorry SeaDragon, your statement about the legalese strikes me as very PC, and is part of the problem. Oh, wait, thats right, if we do not operate by the letter of the law we would lose our “moral authority”.
We do not know all the facts yet, though from what I’ve read, my initial take is command failure to even let the events get this far. More BS than BZ IMO.
But why did they feel compelled to lie? There must be more to it. If all the perp got was a fat lip it can’t be that big a deal. They should have manned up and said, hey the fkr gave me some lip so I gave him some fist; sorry, won’t happen again. An extra watch or some KP and forgotten. What were they trying to avoid, or what is the change in atmosphere now that it becomes worth it to take the risk of a coverup?
Hooah for refusing AR-15 proceedings! Any Court-Martial authority that convicts these heros would be laughed out of the military. Good job for showing some big brass balls and saying “I dare ya!”
I admit I missed the “cover up”, but sometimes in the heat of the moment, or in the reality of the situation, people do not associate a bloody lip with torture or abuse, and they just don’t make much of an impression. And in a group, many times one persons’ memory is the group memory when the tale is told.
No offense intended to the commenting JAGO, but most have no idea what it is like to have a round meant for you miss by enough to make you crap in your pants, and don’t know what it’s like to hold your friend/buddy/shipmate while they die, telling them it will be OK, knowing it won’t be. Do you prosecute them for covering up too?
Situation realities rule. Anyone who takes a shot at me or my folks is a candidate for thermal equilibrium. I am not going to negotiate with someone who just tried to kill me, and I am not going to turn tail and run. If our leadership does not want bloody lips, then they need to stop teaching us combatives, stop teaching us about buttstrokes (not a sexual position BTW), and probably should give us cans of silly string to confuse and confound the opposition. Not our enemy, because of the implications associated with “enemy.” They are just misunderstood children of allah who want nothing but peace. Oh, and control of the world with all the infidels dead. Not much, really……
Happy Thanksgiving to all! Last one home for a while, I think.
Most JAGs don’t, some do. And that’s been the source of some heated arguments.
Marine6,
Yeah, 52 million Americans CAN have their heads up their 4th point of contact. The nation I was born in died on 5 November 2008. Not sure of what it will mutate into but since the lightweigh and his minions and handlers have taken charge. Recent events lead one to believe the future looks really grim for my sons and grandchildren. As for the second part of your comment, I noted a distinct change after the drawdown following Desert Storm. Careerism although always present going back to the Roman Legions, began making a comeback when the promotion pyramid got a lot more shallow. The system breeds a cookie cutter non-risk taker more so today IMHO. It is definitely time and I am hanging it all up now after 32 years.
Dust