L-3 and Hawker Beechcraft are partnering to provide the USAF and joint force commander new eyes and ears in the skies over the Af for Christmas:
The Air Force is setting up stations at its air bases at Kandahar, in southern Afghanistan, and Bagram, near Kabul, the capital, to receive and process data and then send it along to ground troops.
The planes also can beam images and video directly to ground troops, who will be equipped with L-3 Communications ‘‘Rovers” — laptop devices that allow soldiers to see the same images as airborne operators. Almost 5,000 Rovers have been delivered to the U.S. military by L-3 Communications.
The aircraft are highly modified variants of the Beech King Air platform known as Project Liberty Aircraft (a sobriquet that yields the perhaps unfortunate acronym of “PLA“), and are based on a twin-engine design that goes back to 1964. They may not be sexy from the perspective of the fighter mafia, but the program does demonstrate to SecDef Gates that the USAF “gets it” when it comes to fighting the war we’re in. Which is a pretty good thing, since the secretary showed every sign of being willing to continue the floggings until morale improves.
In addition to ISR assets, the USAF is looking over the notion of buying up to 100 propeller-driven light attack/armed reconnaissance aircraft more suitable for bug hunting than nation breaking. Candidates include a weaponized variant of the T-6 trainer (also built by Beech) and the AT-802U variant of the Air Tractor crop duster with armor, guns and expendables. This tail dragging attack aircraft takes us back to the 40s, and offers the prospect of endless hilarity at O’Club bars around the world as USAF operators re-acquaint themselves with mishaps their grandfathers knew.
The Embraear Super Tucano is a currently fielded design already in COIN and CDO operations in South and Central America. In the video below, a Colombian Tucano chases down and bags a drug runner with assistance from some norteamericanos.
No one hates a drug dealer more than me, but I have to tell you that towards the end there I was almost pulling for him to make it.
I have to believe that all the fighter pilots were itching to be in control of the pursuit plane.
I believe somebody in Europe is currently building Fw-190’s that would be a sexy aircraft and surely we have the P-51 blueprints somewhere.
Check out the PA-48 Enforcer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-48_Enforcer
Updated P-51 for COIN
Not as sleek and sexy as the original, but I wouldn’t mind having one
Now that we have the ability to make a decent power train for it, and seem to be comfortable with bringing back the planes of the ’40’s, perhaps it’s time to tell Boeing to drag out the plans to the Douglas A2D Skyshark. A turboprop Skyraider would probably have applications in today’s world.
I really do admire a man that never gives up….
I guess I should say it’s all in the best Naval tradition…..
Since someone asked me I prefer a souped-up OV-10 Bronco for this role.
Bring back the A-1 Skyraider!
Call it the A-1X Super Skyraider (I think they used all the other letters already). Give it two seats, some new pods of ISR gear, modern materials here and there, glass cockpit, make it rough like “lets borrow that farm field over there” capable, about the same ordinance load, and definitely keep all four cannons…
Offer the Navy a carrier capable version? And maybe the Marines would like some too…
And since they are opening a production line, can they make a civi version? Please?
The AT-802U has to be one of the fugliest planes I have ever seen. It’s like the designers actually tried to make it look crappy.
One can admire skill in an opponent without admiring his position. Looks like he played he hand he was dealt with no little skill.
I have to admire the pilot, even if I don’t much give a darn about the men he worked for.
Which, pilots are hard to come by. They’re not exactly falling off trees, especially those with BCM experience, and of those with a private license they tend towards people of some means, not exactly the sort to be desperate enough to risk themselves and an airplane for a couple of grand. They could do better *making* meth than transporting cocaine. Makes me wonder if he entered this contract as a volunteer or if he had a picture of his kid at school sent to him as part of the employee benefits package. He flies, she stays alive and in school sort of thing.
I’m betting there wasn’t a 401K offered either. Probably only early retirement and a pension to stay quiet.
So yeah, hard to know the story on the pilot but he did really well with what he had, gotta admire the talent even if it is working for the wrong side.
– Max
If you want old school, how about bringing back the Polikarpov U-2 Кукурузник?
Rugged, stable, simple to maintain.
I wish that our guardians of the border could do the same for drug smugglers as the Columbians.
1. Boeing is offering an updated OV-10 for the OA-X competition.
2. If any of you care, I covered the ISR/MC-12W aspect of this the other day:
http://tinyurl.com/ygj2vfm
In an earlier thread, we discussed bringing back the old radial engine driven AC. Since a diesel version of a radial was built for a tank, according to one poster, I’d be all for that instead of a turboprop. It would be more rugged and protect the pilot better.
From something that Avweb posted, diesels and constant speed props don’t get along very well, though. I don’t know if that’s the case, but if true, then that would kill a diesel radial and limit us to a turboprop version.
Sorry, QM, I’m not following you. Why the need to protect the pilot? Do any of these narco-transport planes carry guns?
QM, the diesel is not a great idea for an aircraft. Very fuel efficient, of course, but a side effect of the detonation problem that makes diesels run is a need for heavy crank, rods, and block to contain the shock of irregular ignition. Means a heavier motor for the same power. Granted with electronics this has become less of a need, but those electronics aren’t likely to be on an aircraft any time soon.
Did I mention diesel fuel gelling up at 20 degrees? Because at altitude it gets cool. A gelled fuel filter on an F250 is annoying. On a Piper it’s deadly.
Granted, in some applications it makes sense, but applications where flight is not steady-state on the throttle just aren’t one of them. And in spite of what people might think, turbines aren’t all that failure-prone when shot, especially when they’re light enough and simple enough to be worth placing two of them on the airframe for the same weight and double the horsepower.
Some times it’s worth going for the best available. Other times two of the merely adequate are better.
– Max
Diesel fuel, jet fuel. Same kersosene, different additives.
There is an additive that prevents, or at least delays, gelling of Jet A. It’s regularly used in turbine AC, and that’s what would be burnt in a diesel AC engine.
The weight issues can be overcome, and have been in civil AC. Continental has a diesel AC engine. The prop issue may be the real trouble here. I just saw the mention of a prop problem in an article about Avgas.
I can’t find it now, but I saw a picture on either a Swedish or Finnish aviation website with photos from a visit to some Russian aviation museum that had an example of a 42-cylinder diesel engine developed in mid-to-late 1940’s for a bomber. IIRC, it was based on the same aluminum-block diesel used by the T-34 tank. That design had been based on a French design for a lightweight diesel for a dirigible. What they did was extend the block so that it had 7 cylinders instead of 6 in a row, then instead of a ‘V’ with just 2 rows, essentially added two more ‘V’s so it had 6 rows in a radial-type pattern, if that description makes sense. It was quite the monster. Never used, the bomber for which it was designed apparently got canceled before the prototype airframe was finished.
Holy crap. How many Air Force/Foreign nationals does it take to shoot down a non-maneuvering target? I could have dropped that guy with a Hummer with no weapons faster than these knuckleheads did.
He seemed to maneuvering within the limits of what looked like a Cessna 310 ( a 200 mph+ AC, iirc). I guess they were trying to give the guy a chance to turn around and live. I’m sure if he’d slowed, turned towards an airfield and dropped the rollers, they would have followed him, arrested him and let him live (although life in a Latin American prison can be rather problematic). I wondered, until just before the end, if he might make it.
In the end, he had too much fuel. Avgas+bullets tend to be a problem at times.
I suspect that it is no problem if the bullets are outbound. Inbound in a rush delivery – yeah, might be a problem.
I’m sure the Tucano driver didn’t worry about inbound flying objects much. The 310 driver didn’t have the option of not worrying.
Yeah, highly rushed delivery.
Isn’t it an old aviation axiom that the only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire?
I’ve spent too much time watching “Gangland” on TV, and I do know some people whose lives were fairly ruined by drugs, whether their own use or from the use by their kids, so I have no desire to see anyone involved in the drug trade putting out “polluting CO2″ any longer than necessary. Kill ‘em all is my motto – apply it to druggies, the losers on “Gangland”, or to the loser Tangos in the Whatever-we-now-call-it semi-war, thing, against those friendly Islamist nuts.
Not exactly the politically correct attitude for this time of year, is it? Hmmm. Well, Merry Christmas to the good folks hereabouts and everywhere. Let’s work for a prosperous new year which, I hope, means that we can retire a whole lot of the lefties in D.C. come the end of 2010.
The last sentence from the Bloomberg link says a lot:
“Hawker Beechcraft was bought in 2007 by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Onex Corp.”
Where’s the Left?
OMG! One can almost smell the cordite! Sweet.
Couple of thoughts for the “bring the A-1 back” crowd – well, one actually. It was a good day when we got AVGAS off the carriers. Me personally, I like the idea of a Super Bronco for the utility it brings.
And A-37’s make great smuggler smokers.
- SJS
“And A-37s make great smuggler smokers.”
Just get me a life-time supply of the plastic insert ear-plugs and the mickey-mouse shells for the flt-line and I’m game!
PS: Not to mention the new Bose stuff–but I doubt the feds would spring for that…
Air and Space made a compelling argument that the 6,000 pund dog whistle was accurate, economical and low maintenance. It still looks like a toy but hit the target. VX might be able to comment.
Quoted one FAC:”Thank God,” one blurted over an open mike on one sortie when F-4s were replaced by A-37s; “now I have somebody who can actually hit the damn target.”
Not as ugly as the AT-802 either. Maybe.
Tweety has been out of production for many years, although I guess Cessna could bring it back fairly quickly if they didn’t destroy the tooling.
The Tweety has also been discontinued for use for pilot training in the AF. Gone the way of the T-2.
I friend, a retired Colonel, was involved in the initial flight testing of Tweety. His training was in the T-34 and T-28 back in the late 50s.
South Vietnamese A-37s had a trademark break at Cam Ranh Bay. Max grunt over the numbers at about 100′, chandelle up to pattern altitude, and a very quick roundabout to touchdown. Don’t know if this was “approved” by the AF ATC guys, but sure was fun to watch.
I had the good fortune to work in the afterlife with an ex VNAF AT-37 and F-5 pilot. He had flown with Colonel Ky and had many good stories to tell.
Not to give voice to sacrilegious thoughts, it occurred to me that, were one to hack the roof offa the Hummer and divide the tail boards by half, one might find a reasonably stout frame usably used for such things as are useful for eradicating the useless; stows well too.
Granted, not having hard points on the wings makes for a difficult load out, but there’s all that space wherein the moles once dwelt; a
boombomb bay comes to mind. Give her a six gun forward and you’d have yourself a ready made COIN bird. IMO…The King Air is a lovely aircraft to board just after sunrise…with your rig on, for a trip to begin the day…and more fun when you’re looking out the door at the end of the day, asking your fellow travellers (13 of them, usually) “Is this gonna count as a night jump?”
The OV-10? Yep…my vote for work.
OV-10 +1
Wonder how much it would cost to modify with a single LCD in the cockpit, upgrade the radios to the ARC-210 and a MIDS link, plus add the ability to carry ISR pods and hellfire
Plus, I personally like the possibilities behind this pic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:OV-10D_CV-60_1985.jpeg
I distinctly remember building an OV-10D scale model that had Hellfire rails on the wing stations.
Haha, yes! You’re right, OV-10 could fire the hellfire.
http://www.atk.com/datasheet_PDFs/hellfire.pdf
More A-10’s and OV-10’s for everyone!
I was going to suggest that Boeing is kicking the can around on the OV-10X, but XBrad done good and got there first. Another increasingly popular COIN aircraft is the PZL M28 Skytruck, although it’s not very quick about things; 198Kt at best galumph.
I’ll give the Cessna guy credit for trying, but he would have been better served with a crew mounted gun aft. Imagine a B-25X running a pair of the Rolls Royce/Dowty room fans, M-197 20mm Gatling Guns, ALE-39, and you’d have yourself a ret good time of it.
Sorry. I don’t support drug runners, but I’ve always championed the underdog in a situation like this. Fair fight and all, you know.
Optionally piloted will become big. Fly it manned to the theater, then replace pilot with 300 LBs of gas and stay up longer with no bio limfacs.
That makes for an update of that bad old joke:
“Never met a pilot worth 300 lbs. of gas.”
Gee, if domestic law enforcement could shoot fleeing drug dealers in the back, it would have made my years as a cop much more interesting. I hope Colombia’s target ID ability is better than Peru’s.
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-a-2001-08-02-24-Investigation-66962867.html?textmode=1
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19910711&id=ZzMMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=FmADAAAAIBAJ&pg=6977,91428
The Peruvians also had a problem with USAF C-130’s on approved missions too…
- SJS
Geez, you woulda thought the Tucano jockey would have done on a head-on pass with guns a blazing. Fair fight and all. that would deter most “I like to live and maybe I’ll be out in 10-20″ types. The others? Smoke ‘em.
Everybody has forgotten the Big Point.
Smoke five druggies, and you’re an ace. Not to mention that there’s no kill like a guns kill.
Yeah, but in the movie version of this 007 pulled vertical (on one engine) and jumped out of the burning airplane from like 1000′ AGL… lol
Project Liberty is King Air model 350 ERs with neat stuff in them. Right out of the Reaper UAV. It was in the little Friday rag that is available in Lancaster/Palmdale/Mojave/California City/Mojave.I did the instrument panel/pedestal and wire harness install on the first 6 of them at Plant IV at Hawker Beechcraft in Wichita. I got laid off on February 26. But by then we had done those six. It left the plant in the green with a C of A and was in Zinc Chromate. Where all the other stuff happened, I don’t know and I don’t care. But one should be aware that by the time it got to my position on the assembly line it had on the average, 60 to 80 tags for bad fastener intstallation. That being rivets, hi-locks and hi-shears. Remember that, OK.
I would not get in one on a bet.