Everybody relax, says Jeffrey Goldberg. The US government is not trying to cause a breach in the relationship with out best ally in the Middle East. He’s just trying to change the democratically elected government of a sovereign ally:
Obama is not trying to destroy America’s relations with Israel; he’s trying to organize Tzipi Livni’s campaign for prime minister, or at least for her inclusion in a broad-based centrist government. I’m not actually suggesting that the White House is directly meddling in internal Israeli politics (ed: actually, you are), but it’s clear to everyone — at the White House, at the State Department, at Goldblog — that no progress will be made on any front if Avigdor Lieberman’s far-right party, Yisrael Beiteinu, and Eli Yishai’s fundamentalist Shas Party, remain in Netanyahu’s surpassingly fragile coalition.
So what is the goal? The goal is force a rupture in the governing coalition that will make it necessary for Netanyahu to take into his government Livni’s centrist Kadima Party (he has already tried to do this, but too much on his terms) and form a broad, 68-seat majority in Knesset that does not have to rely on gangsters, messianists and medievalists for votes.
So, not to worry! Nothing to see here. Move along.
We’re in the very best of hands.
Let’s see here…
Obama has outraged the British, insulted the French, abandoned the Poles and Czechs, and is now estranging the Israelis.
You have to wonder if the USA will have any allies left. Not after 2012 – after the end of 2010!
Relax, Mike M, if the ancient Mayans were right it will all be immaterial after 21 Dec 2012 anyway…
You got enough Barbancourt to last until then?
Yes, “the very best hands.” From the Jerusalem Post as linked by Drudge right now:
“WASHINGTON — US Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that Israel must prove it is committed to the Mideast peace process with actions, but brushed aside suggestions that US-Israeli relations were in crisis and reaffirmed America’s steadfast commitment to the security of the Jewish state.
Clinton said US and Israeli officials were in intense talks about how to repair the damage caused by last week’s Israeli announcement of new Jewish housing in east Jerusalem while US Vice President Joe Biden was visiting the country. She said the goal was to relaunch stalled Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.”
Israel? ISRAEL HAS TO PROVE IT’S COMMITMENT TO PEACE? This is the single most despicable and insulting thing that I can remember any US administration official ever saying or implying in regard to Israel. Like it’s the fault of the Israeli’s for getting in the way of all those rockets? or by hanging out in dangerous pizza parlors? or interfering with Arab military maneuvers all those times they almost got run into the sea. They have given back land they won in battle, land that allows them a precious little extra protection, and they get nothing back from the people who are “the victims.”
I suppose for my beliefs Hillary would call me “a f***ing Jew B**tard” as she has been claimed to have reacted to someone else she was angry with. I’m not a Jew, but I’d be damned proud to receive that reaction for what I’ve said from this despicable disgrace of a SecState. And that’s not to even mention how lowly I hold the administration she serves.
Clinton did the same with Bibi with Ehud Barak, who was disaster for Israel. Obama is just trying to give Israel the same advantage his election gave us.
The sad thing, from what many articles in Jpost indicate, is that Bibi has a history of caving so easily. But then maybe you do have to be a bit of a messianist to be outnumbered 100:1 and not blink when Boss Tweed comes a callin’.
Hillary is a prime example of the Progressives of her generation, filled with hate for anyone who disagrees with her being the ultimate decider of right and wrong.
I don’t think you might fully understand how horrible Avigdor Lieberman’s far-right party, Yisrael Beiteinu, is. Or some of the racist statements made by Bibi.
How dare Bibi humiliate America by forcing America to wipe out the line in the sand that we drew.
This is a question of rule of law and property rights. Israel has been abusing “eminent domain” powers since 1948 to confiscate privately held Palestinian property in mass paying below market prices or nothing at all.
This is anti capitalist, anti free market, anti rule of law, and against the norms of civilized human behavior.
Israel uses the seized Palestinian private property to build gated community settlements that even Israeli citizens who happen to be Palestinians are not allowed to buy homes in.
Israel’s laws routinely deny business permits and building permits to Israeli citizens of Palestinian descent.
Pres Obama and America are right to demand that this stops. This means that Lieberman (a true anti Arab and anti muslim racist) has no place in any Israeli government.
Anan, would such behavior as you describe be any different from that which was enacted against the Jews by any number of nations and invaders throughout their history? I think not. Yet, where is your outrage at the atrocities committed against Israel?
What the Israelis, and, indeed, many people around the world, understand is that there is no playing nice with the Palestinians. There never will be. Period. We’re talking about a schism that has existed for better than half the written history of the world, and there won’t be any fixing it because Obama and Hillary decide to start meddling.
In short, Israel’s choice of government and settlements anywhere are best left to the Israelis. To conduct himself otherwise is to, once again, have our President display his colossal capacity for hubris and ignorance.
Mongo, if the US government behaved the way the Israeli government did to its own citizens, you would be screaming against the US government at the top of your lungs.
Idi Amin mass murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people and seized private property in mass. This was wrong, and all the more reason Israel should not misbehave the way Idi Amin did (Israel hasn’t killed hundreds of thousands of people, but Israel serially seizes Palestinian private property.)
What happened to the Ugandans, South Vietnamese, Cambodia, Zimbabwe, Congo, and many more people around the world is wrong. The way non Palestinian Arabs abused their fellow Arab Jews and siezed their property was also wrong. As was the way 1 to 2 million people died and tens of millions of people deported in weeks during the 1947 South Asian partition. Confiscation of private property happened in Pakistan in 1947 too.
Many Jews have suffered from the inappropriate seizure of private property without sufficient due process. This is all the more reason that Israel should do right by the Palestinians.
This said, Jews are not Israel and Israel is not synonymous with Judaism. There are many more American Jews than Israelis. Many millions of Jews live outside both Israel and America.
Israel belongs to all her people, Jewish, atheist, Sunni and Christian. Remember that over 80% of all Israelis were not Jewish in 1919. The Palestinians are Israel’s people too.
Is it too much to ask Israel to treat its own 3.5 million Arab citizens (2 million Arab Jews, 1.5 million Palestinian Israeli citizens) better?
“What the Israelis, and, indeed, many people around the world, understand is that there is no playing nice with the Palestinians. There never will be. Period. We’re talking about a schism that has existed for better than half the written history of the world, and there won’t be any fixing it because Obama and Hillary decide to start meddling.”
No one is asking Israel to play nice. It will be enough if Israel treats Palestinians consistent with Israel and international law. Your comment about a schism are incorrect.
Remember that Jewish Palestinians were collaborators with the Turkish Ottoman empire for half a millenia against the Arabs. Jewish Arabs were pro Turkish. Still are.
In 1919, the Arabs celebrated the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. Jewish Arabs were not quite so delighted. Some of what followed was revenge over the perceived Jewish Palestinian / Turkish axis.
The Palestinians were treated like crap for two millenia by Romans, Byzentines, Persians, Arab empires, Mongols, Egyptians, Seljik Turks, Ottoman Turks, Brits, Jordanians and the Israelis.
Aren’t the Palestinians also deserving of your compassion? Didn’t the Palestinians help defeat the Axis (Ottoman Empire, Germans, Austria Hungarian Empire, Belgians) in WWI? Aren’t you as a fellow American a little grateful for that?
“In short, Israel’s choice of government and settlements anywhere are best left to the Israelis.” I don’t think you know what settlements are. Why can’t Bibi and Lieberman allow all Israeli citizens, including Palestinian Israeli citizens, equal rights to buy/rent property in settlements?
For that matter, foreigners have the right to buy and rent property in America. Foreign investors have equal rights under American law. America is much richer and better off for it. Why can’t Israel do the same for foreign investors in Israel?
If a Palestinian entrepreneur wants to fund their biofuels start-up; why should the Israeli government try to block their efforts?
If a Palestinian whose mom and dad were forced to flea their motherland, Israel, in 1948 is qualified to work for Intel in Israel; why does Israel refuse to allow them a work permit to work inside Israel? This same Israel would allow a Chinese or Indian knowledge worker a work permit to work inside Israel. Where is the propriety in that?
“If the US government behaved the way the Israeli government did to its own citizens, you would be screaming against the US government at the top of your lungs.”
Been doing that for about 20 years now, Anan. I simply scream a little more when they mistreat my friends as well.
– Max
Anan, Totten tolerates your anti-Israel, anti-America rants -for reasons that I never understood.
I rather doubt that this group will.
The moderate is being moderated again
A simple fact – Israel treats Christian citizens like second class citizens. The fact is it’s called a Jewish state for good reason.
Another simple fact – the Jewish state is socialist and run by and large by agnostics and atheists.
You don’t, however, see Christians losing property right and left, or their homes being destroyed like Palestinian’s homes. It probably makes a very large difference that Christians aren’t shooting Katyusha rockets at Israelis, or blowing women and children at coffee houses or bus stops.
There is a great deal of room to criticize Israelis, their granting so called “Jewish” criminals on the lam from the US, Canada, and Europe sanctuary is one example, but in the context of the ME we betray Israel at our own peril. What Obama is doing is utter idiocy. Bu then, that’s par for his course.
Anybody else thinking, with the health care vote taking all the news time and the headlines, that maybe a good ol’ minor international crisis is in order? You know, divert a little attention off the domestic front for a couple of days?
Myself, I think it’s a bit too subtle for the average flyover American to care much about, but that’s not where headlines are made and news media are to be found. I’ve no idea how this is playing on the coasts, my gut tells me I’m reading far more planning, timing, and intention into this.
Still, it’s not often we intrude upon allies to this extent.
– Max
[etc.]
Damn, Israel isn’t perfect. We’d better do something about that, stat.
Anan accuses (Middle Eastern?) Jews of being pro-Turkish in WW1. So? He doesn’t mention that the Palestinian Arab leadership was pro-Axis in WW2, that the Palestinians supported Saddam Hussein in Gulf War 1, that they celebrated 9/11, that they keep killing and trying to kill Jews…
Arab Israelis have more freedom and opportunity than does anyone in most Arab countries. The West Bank has become almost devoid of Christians in recent years. For some reason you don’t hear about non-Jews fleeing Israel. When Muslims encourage Jews to live as a friendly minority community in a Palestinian state, then maybe the Jews should relax a bit. Until then the Jews should stay vigilent and keep their guns loaded.
I agree that Bibi is weak. If Honduras could stand up successfully to Obama, Israel should be able to as well. The sooner Israel (Japan, Taiwan, Oz, Czech, etc., etc.) adapts to the new post-American world order the better.
So, Obama wants to help Livni take over in Israel…
Am I the only one who read this thought: “Tzipi and the Pinhead?”
Jonathan, I didn’t so much accuse Arab Jews of being pro Axis as state that maybe we should give the Palestinians credit for being anti Axis in WWI.
“the Palestinians supported Saddam Hussein in Gulf War 1″ Complete and total insanity for which the Palestinians have paid dearly. Remember that non Palestinian Arabs have terribly abused Palestinians for a long time. This is one reason many Palestinians supported Saddam against the Arabs . . . as a way of saying up yours to the Arabs and as a way of saying up yours to the Europeans, Turks, Americans, Israelis, UN, and international community.
If you think Israelis don’t like the UN, see how much Palestinians dislike the UN.
The Palestinians lost a lot of support from the Arab world as a result of Palestinian support for the Sadist Saddam. This is one reasons Arabs refuse to raise a finger for Palestinians. Rather they treat Palestinians who live in Arab countries like dirt. Arabs also (at least until very recently) refused to give Palestinians economic grants, train Palestinian security forces , help build Palestinian civilian institutions.
“they celebrated 9/11″ Some morons did this. But Palestinians celebrated 9/11 less than Greeks, many of our European “allies” and our Arab “friends” did. Did you see the outrageous celebrations in Greece on 9/11? A “few” Palestinians very foolishly copied celebrations elsewhere. Again, the Palestinians have paid a price for this.
Keep in mind that Palestinians didn’t know almost anything about 9/11. It was widely believed in the Arab world and Pakistan that the “Jews” did it. They believed this because their media and imams told them so.
Anti Jewish racism is a problem among non Palestinian and non Iraqi Arabs.
More that matter, it is a problem in Latin America too.
Did you see a Pew Research poll on global reactions to 9/11. The countries with the most sympathy for America were naturally India and Russia . . . since they have suffered from AQ linked terrorism so much. Nigeria, Nicauragua, Costa Rica and some other African and central American countries were similarly very supportive of America. Israel and most traditional US allies were also supportive.
The country that was most supportive of the attacks of 9/11 was Mexico. Other Latin American countries and Pakistan were similarly atrocious. They were worse than Arab countries.
Compared to many Latin American countries, Palestinians were downright pro American.
If you really want to bash Palestinians you should mention how some Palestinian vocally supported Zarkawi the mass murderer. Now that was the most insanely stupid thing the Palestinians ever did. And the Iraqis still haven’t forgiven or forgotten.
The Palestinians have their excuses. After Saddam fell, roving gangs of Iraqis went around looking for anyone associated with Saddam that they could take their revenge on. Often these gangs of Iraqis inappropriately went after Palestinians living in Iraq. Most Palestinian Iraqis either fled were were killed. This experience inappropriately colored Palestinian perspectives on Iraq and Iraqis.
“that they keep killing and trying to kill Jews” Please prove this. I think most Palestinians are as outraged about terrorists that attack civilians as the next guy. Keep in mind that terrorists often kill Palestinian civilians.
“The West Bank has become almost devoid of Christians in recent years.” Documentation? I have heard otherwise. Palestine’s long term business model relies on tourism and foreign investment. Many Palestinians are Christians or mixed Christian/Sunnis.
“Arab Israelis have more freedom and opportunity than does anyone in most Arab countries.” Just because non Palestinian Arabs mistreat Palestinians does not mean Israelis should. If the Israelis reach out to the Palestinians; they could form an alliance against their shared threats.
“When Muslims encourage Jews to live as a friendly minority community in a Palestinian state, then maybe the Jews should relax a bit.” There hasn’t been a Palestinian state in over half a millenia. Palestine has been under continuous occupation. Since there has never been a Palestinian state; what makes you think the Palestinians wouldn’t honor, respect and appreciate a successful Jewish Palestinian minority. Some Palestinian leaders are open to this idea . . . leaders such as Mustafa Barghouti for example.
Remember that over 80% of all Israelis were Palestinian (either Christian, Sunni, or Atheist) in 1919.
Jonathan, many countries; our allies and opponents alike stand up to us these days. The Israelis have humiliated America many times over the decades. Remember Bush 41? Remember Bush 43? And now again Israel is humiliating our President and Vice President.
Ron Snyder, chill out dude. Being pro Palestinian is by definition for Israeli since Israel benefits from the success of Palestinian. If you love America, be pro Palestinian.
If you love America, be pro Palestinian.
Or not. I’ll take the loyalty of an Israeli over that of a Palestinian any day. History proves me correct in that choice, Anan.
What would be the fun in “chilling out” Anan?
As I’ve suggested to you before, specifically after some of your more egregious stream-of-consciousness rants against the U.S. and Israel at Michael Totten’s site (http://bit.ly/6gq7nd), you should just start your own Pro-Pal blog and see how many people come to play with you.
Have to give you points for consistency though.
Ron Snyder, did you wake up at the wrong side of the bed.
Being pro Palestinian is by definition being pro Israeli, because a successful Palestine benefits Israel. What part of that don’t you understand?
There are 200 countries in the world. America has many friends. Shouldn’t we try to treat out Turkish, Iraqi and other allies better?
These countries are doing far more to defeat the Takfiri than Israel. And if they want us to help the Palestinians; shouldn’t we?